Newbie 1351: Hyrule's Under Attack.. Interesting..-GAME OVER

[Mac]

But can't you see how your suggestion that GM is going after "low-hanging newb fruit" is incorrect and, if I'm honest, a little anti-town?

I haven't read that game yet, I've no idea why I thought that if that's not the case. Maybe I misrepped what someone said in the thread.

I have lots of old experience lynching n00b town who posted something scummy. Course corrections ftw. If you think that taking time to assess newbs is antitown, then we have different ideas about what protown is.

Well, that's not what I said. Attacking GM based on her pressuring people for dropping scumtells is anti-town.

That's not what she did, and it's not what I did either.

She praised another player for pressuring a n00b about an ancient scumtell that is hardly useful anymore except to identify n00bs IME, while staying away from that bandwagon herself. And that is what I called her on.

She admitted she felt the Fropome vote was better than the Deras vote, but agreed with Eye's case. I genuinely don't see an issue with that, am I being blind?

But then I asked you to clarify 'low-hanging newb fruit;'

@Mac again, "low hanging new fruit" - IME newbs drop scummy looking posts no matter what their alignment. IMO it takes time to assess their posts, and for me it comes down to relative tells - is the body of their work pro-town? An occasional scummy sounding clanger is not always a good indicator.

Deras is a good example. He's dropped what I consider some classic objective tells, but he's also showing a protown PoV in the questions he's asking and observations he's making. GM's "attaboy" about Eye's post where he voted Deras was a big ping for me. I know what she's said about the post since then. It doesn't erase what that post looks like standing on its own.

So your accusation is that GM supported a Deras vote as well as a Fropome vote, and you are taking issue with it? I really don't get it. Are we only allowed one scumread at a time? Why weren't you suspicious of Eye, or anyone else pressing Deras? Can you point me to this "attaboy" post you talk of?

[fferyllt]

The attaboy is in post 62

It's still pretty early on, but I like the thought process.

[Mac]

What's different from that to this?

Good stuff, Eye. That is two tentative town reads for me.

[fferyllt]

Mac, the thing that made me suspicious was that it looks like encouragement while distancing. Though I think if she had put a vote down at that point I would also be suspicious because as an IC I expect that she's had experience both with inexperienced players and with players who have learned mafia in different environments where different rules of thumb have developed.

[fferyllt]

What's different from that to this?

Good stuff, Eye. That is two tentative town reads for me.

You mean besides it being about getting a read on Eye? Though I didn't agree with all his analysis I saw it as coming from a town perspective given what I've learned so far about his mafia background.

[Mac]

What's different from that to this?

Good stuff, Eye. That is two tentative town reads for me.

You mean besides it being about getting a read on Eye? Though I didn't agree with all his analysis

I saw it as coming from a town perspective given what I've learned so far about his mafia background.

The bolded bit can be summarised with "I like the thought process." This is as much an "attaboy" post as GM's.

[fferyllt]

What's different from that to this?

Good stuff, Eye. That is two tentative town reads for me.

You mean besides it being about getting a read on Eye? Though I didn't agree with all his analysis

I saw it as coming from a town perspective given what I've learned so far about his mafia background.

The bolded bit can be summarised with "I like the thought process." This is as much an "attaboy" post as GM's.

If you leave out the

"Though I didn't agree with all his analysis part"

, perhaps.

[Mac]

That is irrelevant. You still saw it coming from a town perspective. You liked the thought process.

[fferyllt]

That is irrelevant. You still saw it coming from a town perspective. You liked the thought process.

So you see the two posts as equivalent?

[Mac]

They are similar, yes.

[fferyllt]

84

Vote: Fropome

Was considering Deras, but this one is a bit better IMO.

It was after this post that I voted her. Mentions the two most n00bish players in the game by their account, votes one and said she considered voting the other.

[fferyllt]

If you still claim to find our actions equivalent to mine, then I think I'm done discussing this topic with you.

[Mac]

In #88 that wasn't your case. We've debunked that and decided the two posts were similar.

VOTE: VOTE: fferyllt

[fferyllt]

Awesome.

Pile them on. This bandwagon is going to be useful I hope.

[CareyHammer]

I would jump on, but I don't want to put my vote anywhere just yet. Still reading when I get a few minutes here and there. Is ff really that scummy? Not really. I have no idea what is going on. Maybe goodmorning. I dont know.

[Revenus]

neither ff or gm are as good of votes as the turd that just posted

[Deras]

Question for you Deras: do you think the increase in posts could be a change to throw people off the meta=scum argument? I mean, if fferyllt was scum, she'd probably try and play a completely different game to the last time, no?

Yeah, of course it could, in fact, as others have pointed out, if the player is good enough they can probably be aware of their meta and change it but I still believe the ammount of discussion generated by her is more likely to come from town than scum.

Before you even asked:
viewtopic.php?p=4825759#p4825759
Since you asked the first time:
viewtopic.php?p=4830708#p4830708

Thank you, I guess I missed the fact that those referred to the scumtells on GM's post.

In #88 that wasn't your case. We've debunked that and decided the two posts were similar.

I don't see how fferlyllt has contradicted #88 so far her argument has been "GM is going after the n00bs" all along, could you point out where she claims a different case against GM?

They are similar, yes.

I think the difference fferyllt is talking about is that GM agreed on the conclusion, aka "Deras = scum" which fferyllt sees as GM building cases against the easiest targets, whereas fferyllt's post allegedly agreed only on the thought process but not the conclusion (which I'm inclined to believe seeing how fferyllt gave me some leeway due to my newbiness).

This I believe ties up with what GM said about being in the same team but disagreeing (fferlyt) whereas I think you could also be on opposing teams and agree (or fake agreement, as in, a scum might agree with a townie's conclusions in order to push a mislynch a.k.a. GM pushing for Frop (on "gut") and me(on admittedly more sound basis)).

I would jump on, but I don't want to put my vote anywhere just yet. Still reading when I get a few minutes here and there. Is ff really that scummy? Not really. I have no idea what is going on. Maybe goodmorning. I dont know.

What the?

[Deras]

neither ff or gm are as good of votes as the turd that just posted

There is one other thing to consider here I think, GM was pretty adamant about "don't vote Carey, it won't matter". If we lynch Carey and he flips scum, I'd say that's a big argument against GM, if we lynch him and he's town, then I'd say that'd go a long way in clearing GM since if she was scum she'd probably go for the easy targets.

[Mac]

Deras:

84

Vote: Fropome

Was considering Deras, but this one is a bit better IMO.

It was after this post that I voted her.

Mentions the two most n00bish players in the game by their account, votes one and said she considered voting the other.

This is her new reason for voting GM, while her previous reason was for something about low hanging newb fruit. She's also claimed that GM was soft pushing Eye's case against you with an "attaboy" post, when in fact she did the exact same thing.

And Carey:

p-edit: if GM's scum she will know Carey will flip town. It wouldn't really clear her. Are you aware of buddying Deras?

[fferyllt]

Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean you're not on the same team.

Also. Case or it didn't happen, I don't want you guys to get in the habit of (and keep) voting without any reasoning at all.

You may not want to share ALL your reasoning right now (there are arguments about how it may help Scum, though I personally am for complete transparency at the moment), but at least one reason.

My case is mostly your lack of case for voting Fropome, while indicating you liked Eye's deras case/vote.

You're going after low-haning newb fruit.

This was my case.

[fferyllt]

Or at least part of it. And you'll notice when I voted her.

I'm going to take a day away from this thread and then come back to it with hopefully fresh and unjaundished eyes on Tuesday night or Wednesday.

[CareyHammer]

neither ff or gm are as good of votes as the turd that just posted

You're the turd, you turdface

[Deras]

This is her new reason for voting GM, while her previous reason was for something about low hanging newb fruit. She's also claimed that GM was soft pushing Eye's case against you with an "attaboy" post, when in fact she did the exact same thing.

I think those are the same reason, low hanging newb fruit=Frop and me. Most n00bish players in the game by their account=Frop and me. Not sure I about the attaboy post, at the time I felt the tone of the posts was different because fferyllt argued afterwards for some leeway about my newbiness, but I think I'll go back an re-read that exchange to see how it shapes up in light of fferyllt's and GM's discussions.

p-edit: if GM's scum she will know Carey will flip town. It wouldn't really clear her. Are you aware of buddying Deras?

Oh, I hadn't thought of that, and here I was thinking I was so clever lol

[Eye Urn]

@Fe: I asked you specifically about me because I'm either aware of or not interested in your reads on others. You've made your stances on most of the players pretty clear, to my mind.

@GM
That's not the point. The point is, why are you interested in my read of you at all? I phrased the question the way I did because if you were interested in all my reads, that would make sense. But I don't see anything to be gained as town, especially when asked of someone who is high on your town list. I suppose it's reasonable to assume that sometimes people are curious and want to know information even when it is of no benefit to them, but my tendency is to assume that if someone asks a question there is some benefit to them when they receive an answer. If you were just curious that's a logically reasonable answer, but understand that it makes me think of you as leaning scum for being curious in the answer. The more I think about it the more possibilities I see where it helps you as town to know, but they pretty much dwarf the "How well does one of the top town guys think of what I've done?" aspect of it. Since no one else is jumping on it, I'm going to assume that in the end it's nothing to worry about - but that doesn't mean I'm going to forget it completely.

[Mac]

If you look at 259, she indicates it's you she's referring to as being one of the "low-hanging newb fruit" I think.

As a side note, I just discovered [post] tags. How amazingly simple.