↑ fferyllt wrote: ↑ goodmorning wrote:10: The jokey "So, are you Scum?" Maybe I'm pulling confirmation bias here, but it just strikes me wrong.
This post right here is why my eyelid twitched when you said you had a townfeel. My early posts were jokey. No questiion. Fropome and I know each other from elsewhere, btw. These posts were hellos/light sparring to see how he reacted and I imagine his to me were the same. I was happy with the results at the time.
In my experience, jokey posts mostly come from confident Town or nervous Scum. I pegged you as more likely confident Town of the two. BUT the jokiness can also come from confident Scum, though less often.
37: This list of her tentative light Townreads mostly consists of behaviours that can be displayed by either side, several of which she displayed as Scum in that other Newbie game.
Yep. hence tentative.
What I mean when I point this out is that coming out with tentative Townreads based on things you've done as Scum doesn't sit well with me from a Town perspective. If you're Scum, this can put these things into others' minds as 100% Town behaviours. (I know this is kind of a stretch. This is the main problem with chronocasing, the early posts are less revealing usually.)
39: This post initially gave me slight (though granted, playstyle-based) Townfeels. Posting without reading is not something Scum often do. She has before. (Also, in one of my responses, I expressed the opinion that this was alignment-indicative (which I don't feel now). She ignored this.)
claiming to get a townfeel off that post imo is weird and possibly scummy. Like looking for reasons to say "town" buddying up scummy. I thought I said that it is NOT alignment indicative. Will get back to this later.
At the time, you were aware that you didn't pay attention to your posting as Scum. I was not. It is eminently reasonable to see lack of care in writing as a light Towntell. And I said that it was alignment indicative, and you didn't react to that statement at all.
46: I might be imagining a bit of tiptoeing. I might not.
caginess for sure. You'd jangled my scumdar by then. Oh and look...cautious comment about Revenus.
NewbScum are often a bit initially cautious in their dealings with an IC.
I was looking for recent negativities.
Another "townfeel" on a null post? And you wonder why I've gotten a scum vibe here?
Again, it was not Null to me at the time. You had information that I lacked.
54: It's not sheeping really but that's the closest word I can think of.
So, getting a town feel off a post is sheeping? Is that what you'd been doing?
What I'm trying to say here is that you didn't provide any thoughts of your own on why Fe's reasoning was good.
56: Suddenly we're suspicious where we weren't before with no reasons to feel that way that we didn't have the last couple of times we posted.
I have no idea what this means. At that point in the thread, I had enough off notes to wonder if it was a pattern and I put out my suspicion to see how you reacted.
You had posted a couple times since my last post as I recall, then came out with your suspicions without anything changing on my end. That said, your explanation here is reasonable enough.
69: The beginning of what appears to be a loving relationship with OMGUS.
The beginning of what appears to be an outbreak of OMGUS votes.
Seeing OMGUS everywhere tends to be a scumtell. It is one of the easiest ways to completely dismiss a case against someone - turn it into the OMGUS strawman and watch it burn.
82: The beginning of what appears to be a loving relationship with the "lurker=Scum" mentality. (In case someone doesn't know why this is a scumtell: it is much easier to accuse someone with no content than to try to find fake scumtells in the content of active townies.)
Interesting. I don't like lurking but I don't automatically default to "lurker = scum". I've been pretty patient with Mac IIRC. Carey's behavior IMO goes beyond ordinary lurking.
I don't think Mac had been lurking prior to this. He posted as much content as he was able and has since made good on his promise to catch up.
Perhaps my statement is colored by my knowledge of Carey, but that's pretty much how he plays.
85: Votes me, no appended reason.
I think it was pretty clear what drew my vote at that point.
And I don't.
88: "Lack of case on Fro" when the post before was my case on Fro. "indicating you liked Eye's case/vote" when I stated that I liked his thought process. "going after low-hanging newb fruit" when the object of the game is to go after Scum, no matter their join date. "Going after low-hanging newb fruit" also implies that she
knows
they are not Scum.
It implies no such thing. n00bs are hard to read
because
they tend to react in scummy ways no matter what their alignment. I take my time in assessing n00bs for that reason.
I think you understate two things: 1. the ability of newbs to play. 2. the amount of difference between newbTown and newbScum reactions. I don't often have difficulty in reading newbs myself, though this game I can tell is liable to be an utter clusterfuck in that arena.
92: Compare this with her later feelings, particularly those pertaining to the Fe/Deras thing. Even with no new developments in the situation she gets much harder on this point each time she revisits it.
I had a solid town read on Fropome at that point. At the moment the only thing shaking that is a certain lack of paranoia about me.
Why would you find paranoia to be a Towntell? Simply because it is easier to look paranoid if you have no knowledge of players' alignments?
125: Assumes 39 is alignment neutral (which it is, but at the time wasn't 100%). Assumes I was calling her tentative reads not alignment indicative when I said "they are indeed usually Town, but good Scum can fake it." Ignores 2/3 of the points I made in explanation. Harder on the issues from 92. Accuses me of OMGUS, despite the fact that my suspicions of Fro predate his suspicions of me (unless you think he was suspicious of me in 35, which is questionable).
I thought he was suspicious of you in 35. As for the rest...there's nothing to refute there IMO.
Mmk. Agree to disagree then?
126: Made me sad. Also fails to provide reasoning as to why she thinks it is flails (yes, she's done it since, I'm getting there, she should have done it here).
I think this is a style thing. I make short posts to get reactions. WoTs come after I have the reactions. I'm not likely to change this style of play unless I find that it doesn't get results. So far, it's gotten results. I think a look back at my lovers game will show the same pattern of push-analyzie-push-analyze.
Playstyle? Fair enough. I tend not to set stock in self-meta though, because if you're aware of having a Town meta you're probably able to emulate it as Scum. Not to mention the accuracy, since people tend to view things vastly differently.
129: Comes after several people have given reads, and doesn't really cover much new ground (if any). In one sentence accuses me of going after easy targets while staying off of the... easy... targets? SEEMS LEGIT
.I think you'll find that I've telegraphed most of those reads in earlier posts. IIRC the only one where I had a lot of recent posts to think about was Alexis'. And yes, I've made the point more than once that it looked like you were ENCOURAGING a bandwagon while staying off it yourself. TBH, I think you can find that I've done something similar, though, and that would be a more legitimate argument - I'm not unhappy with votes on Carey, though I've chosen to focus on you.
"looked like" =/= actual events
Seriously, ask yourself: Who are the easiest targets in this game? Carey and Deras, right? Who's been going after them again? JUST SAYING. JUST. SAYING
. Not sure what your point is here.
My point is that you claimed Fro was an easy target. My point is that Carey was, not Fro, and that you were going after him, not me.
132: Who goes easy on someone acting scummy? SCUM
Who initially goes easy on someone acting n00b? Someone who has mislynched a lot of n00bs. n00bs get better with game experience and pointers. That's what we're all here playing for, right? If helping n00bs improve isn't the reason why we're playing this game, then I'm playing the wrong game.
Sometimes a vote is the best pointer of all.
Apparently I've not mislynched enough newbs yet, I should probably remember that for whenever I pull Scum.
135: Gave me an "interesting." All the "Oh no, I don't know if I'll still be alive, oh darn" is just trying a little too hard. Plus it's basically saying "I'm just gonna go after one scumread at a time." Why? Can't come up with enough fakery for two?
Bit of inconsistency here. Make up your mind. Am I going after too few players or too many?
You're going after too few, setting up for too many.
Not fluff. I'd called your vote-post a thinly veiled omgus without linking to it IIRC. That was to document my earlier comment.
Eh. Links aren't that necessary in that context.
157: This is actually something of a Towntell. Poor lonely thing.
This comment right here, this is where the level of condescension dripping from your posts goes critical mass. I'm going to try to take the rest of your post seriously, but it's not going to be easy.
Sorry. My hatred for case-making got away from me. Reading back, all my posts to you look kinda harsh and I have no idea why. I'm sorry if that's been frustrating to you. :[
175: Rather than just saying "I found it defensive and didn't like the Fe/Deras thing or your lack of vote on Carey," took the game back almost 100 posts and recycled arguments that had been responded to.
You need to decide whether you want short and sweet or detailed and thorough.
I think it's possible to be thorough in a short post.
179: Suddenly considering other suspects, so as to open up other potential mislynches.
Lots of posts by other players happened while we barked at each other. I got around to them. Once again, make up your mind. Am I scummy for focusing only on you? Or am I scummy for widening my focus? Short answer, I'm not scummy. I'm scumhunting.
As above: going after too few, setting up for too many.
181: This is classic nervous Scum trying to masquerade as relaxed and groovy Town.
Get me lynched and we'll find out. Town can have a town bandwagon to analyze along with a whole bunch of reads from a confirmed town player.
I doubt it would be possible for me to get you lynched, what with the Town's reads.
I don't know if I've mentioned this in this game, but I frequently call VCA bullshit. Honestly, I think it's a whole pile of WIFOMish crap that's ultimately pretty hit-and-miss. That said, if anyone else finds it helpful, knock yourself out.
ConfTown =/= ConfCorrect
183: Suddenly all the players have little things that "bother" her. ALL OF THEM (except Rev, I suppose) (interesting) (and Mac, but I don't know if he really counts yet)
Go back and read my list of reads. There was stuff that bothered me about every player, including my town reads in that list. Except possibly Fropome. I expected him to come back to the thread and get the heebies about my going after his nemesis. he didn't.
I think we're missing each other's points here, because I don't get what you're trying to say.
Let's have a look:
me - lots of things.
Fro - lack of paranoia(!) and similar reads to others (HALF THE PLAYERLIST HAS THE SAME GODDAMNED LIST)
Fe- stepping in on the 33/35 thing
AT3 - approval of Fe stepping in and also his backing down
Carey - lurking and uselessness
Deras - lurking and absorbing tips on gameplay which sets his bar higher for her
Mac - nothing, he's posted all of four times
Rev - nothing (interestinggggg)
Who's Fe again? And did you find my niggles about Rev? Or did you not look?
Fe is, as answered by him, Eye. I was, as above, looking for recent stuff.
I await some response eagerly, though I want to urge that we can suspect each other and still be nice. It's not a scumtell to back off of something if it's only frustrating you and not actually accomplishing anything.
Ditto. If I come out of this with a town read on you I'll consider it a positive. It's going to take some doing, though, given where I am at right now.
It's always nice when people can be civil.
