Micro 152 - BSG Mafia (Galactica Survives?)

[buldermar]

No matter how quick and how good FF's reads are, #26 was overkill.

Well I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

[fferyllt]

I use my vote to try and get town out of RVS as fast as possible.

I find this reasoning a bit silly. RVS isn't mandatory. If you think it is something to be "moved out of" why would you instigate it in the first place?

Big words from someone who avoided RVS.

How do you start a game, tell me please

I didn't avoid RVS, I just wasn't around. However, if I was around I would explicitly have declared it over because it's inherently anti-town and a massive waste of time.

More or less any other way of starting the game is superior to writing a post that contains absolutely nothing that has any potential what-so-ever to be alignment-indicative. I could have written about my favorite colour and it would have been more useful.

Right but then town would never get into the serious stages of the game.

The game only starts when an interaction such as that between me/ff (arising from random votes mind you) causes an alignment-indicative response to arise. Every game starts in RVS, and it ends when something alignment-indicative comes up. My goal is to make that period in between as short as possible.

But this is a pointless discussion.

No matter how quick and how good FF's reads are, #26 was overkill.

If I wound up quick-lynched overnight at your behest without a chance to dump my nascent reads, I wanted my town read on you well cemented in memories.

You're welcome.

If you're actually town, remind me to come back to this post game.

Were you genuinely worried about a quicklynch?

After the Nightless game and that wagon on KBW?

It crossed my mind.

[buldermar]

Do you think anything about Syryana specifically writing out "Mafia Goon" as opposed to just saying "scum"? I have some thoughts about it, but I'd like to hear yours first.

Really?

like. Really?

Yes, really, and I'll elaborate on that later.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Like I'm actually confused as to why I need to specify how bad Pitoli's post was. It added nothing to discussion, asked something that has already been established, and ignored the entire conversation beforehand.

But anyways. Hi buldemar.

Hey =)

I agree that it's bad, but I'm not sure why you find it particularly scummy?

I didn't.

You didn't find it particularly scummy, yet you voting him for his bad post?

You need to read the thread again.

I use my vote to try and get town out of RVS as fast as possible. Pitoli was not a scum vote, it was a reaction test, especially since I was getting bored of talking to FF. And I suppose there was a little bit of suspicion in Pitoli jumping in and not commenting on the interaction between me and FF at all. Pitoli's vanishing act is not what I was trying to achieve.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yep.

First off, "an entire game" is misleading. Nero has maybe 50 posts between 3 games. All of them one-liners.

Secondly, from what I've seen of FF last game, I know that she tries very hard as town. And not once in last game did she ever ask for meta--she preferred to get it herself.

Which is why I think that this is out-of-character for town ff. Along with other things.

Something can't be "misleading" when it's a guess, it's just incorrect or inaccurate, which is entirely different - especially in this context.

All I'm saying is that I find the assertion that her not having read the meta being indicative of her being scum silly.

Which other things?

Well I mean you can call it silly just as I can find you calling someone out for saying "Mafia Goon" instead of "scum" as important silly.

I think #26 is an overreaction given my behavior in RVS. I mean, if you blanked out everything after #26 and looked purely at the first page of posts, to have a townread so strong is unbelievable. I mean, I don't think it's possible to have so strong a townread so early, especially given how uncertain she was last game with me.

Fery pressing me on the Nero issue rubs me in the wrong way.

And the meta thing.

[buldermar]

Lol hey cool look at that.

I would've called for a PL right out of a gate is what I meant.

This fixation on small details doesn't seem like scumhunting. What exactly are you doing right now ff and what do you hope to get out of this conversation?

I would love to put FF at L-1 right now but I'm afraid of an unpredictable idiot named Nero.

Inconsistencies grab my attention.

I hope to figure some people out, though I usually better on more sleep. I woke up and got back into this thread around 4 am my time. It's 6 am now. Coffee would probably help.

I liked Syryana's last post.

Do you think anything about Syryana specifically writing out "Mafia Goon" as opposed to just saying "scum"? I have some thoughts about it, but I'd like to hear yours first.

He's new to the site I think but obviously has mafia experience from his posts.

Hm. Remembering my first game here, I was a lot more careful of local terminology than I've been in later games. I was scum, and that played into my punctiliousness.

I was thinking that if I was new to this game and I had just received the role "Mafia Goon" in a PM, I would without thinking about it refer to that role by its exact name as opposed to referring to it as scum. We managed to confirm a VT in a different game because the new player referred to his role as Townie as opposed to VT. In the PM, the role was called Townie. Since the OP post of the game did not contain role PM's we were thinking that it would be highly unlikely to a scum to come up with the specific role name "Townie" as opposed to VT, which is more common terminology.

[buldermar]

Am I the only one who looks at the wagon on Syryana as being baseless and stupid? It was an RVS vote which Orcinus in particular has over-exaggerated.

VOTE: Orcinus

I'm not bothering with RVS. He's flopping on his scumreads, with votes that 'Are now serious' on an RVS vote to a vote on the person who questioned why wagons can't be random

referring to a wagon from the RANDOM vote stage.

Tryharding scum has been caught.

Interesting, because I read this opposite of you. I think that the overreaction, which I agree it is, is likely to come from town. I think scum-orc would probably be more deliberate about what to base votes on.

You need to read the thread again.

You need to be more specific as I'm not going to read the thread in its entirety again right now.

Oh wow the derps on me - I thought the wagon on FF was on Syrana, then saw another vote for Syrana in post 29.

So said "overreaction" doesn't actually exist.

I missed that post.

[buldermar]

I use my vote to try and get town out of RVS as fast as possible.

I find this reasoning a bit silly. RVS isn't mandatory. If you think it is something to be "moved out of" why would you instigate it in the first place?

Big words from someone who avoided RVS.

How do you start a game, tell me please

I didn't avoid RVS, I just wasn't around. However, if I was around I would explicitly have declared it over because it's inherently anti-town and a massive waste of time.

More or less any other way of starting the game is superior to writing a post that contains absolutely nothing that has any potential what-so-ever to be alignment-indicative. I could have written about my favorite colour and it would have been more useful.

Right but then town would never get into the serious stages of the game.

The game only starts when an interaction such as that between me/ff (arising from random votes mind you) causes an alignment-indicative response to arise. Every game starts in RVS, and it ends when something alignment-indicative comes up. My goal is to make that period in between as short as possible.

But this is a pointless discussion.

No matter how quick and how good FF's reads are, #26 was overkill.

If I wound up quick-lynched overnight at your behest without a chance to dump my nascent reads, I wanted my town read on you well cemented in memories.

You're welcome.

If you're actually town, remind me to come back to this post game.

Were you genuinely worried about a quicklynch?

I agree that it's a pointless discussion - at least in this context. If you feel like it, we can discuss it post game.

[buldermar]

I use my vote to try and get town out of RVS as fast as possible.

I find this reasoning a bit silly. RVS isn't mandatory. If you think it is something to be "moved out of" why would you instigate it in the first place?

Big words from someone who avoided RVS.

How do you start a game, tell me please

I didn't avoid RVS, I just wasn't around. However, if I was around I would explicitly have declared it over because it's inherently anti-town and a massive waste of time.

More or less any other way of starting the game is superior to writing a post that contains absolutely nothing that has any potential what-so-ever to be alignment-indicative. I could have written about my favorite colour and it would have been more useful.

Right but then town would never get into the serious stages of the game.

The game only starts when an interaction such as that between me/ff (arising from random votes mind you) causes an alignment-indicative response to arise. Every game starts in RVS, and it ends when something alignment-indicative comes up. My goal is to make that period in between as short as possible.

But this is a pointless discussion.

No matter how quick and how good FF's reads are, #26 was overkill.

If I wound up quick-lynched overnight at your behest without a chance to dump my nascent reads, I wanted my town read on you well cemented in memories.

You're welcome.

If you're actually town, remind me to come back to this post game.

Were you genuinely worried about a quicklynch?

After the Nightless game and that wagon on KBW?

It crossed my mind.

Which game is that?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I was thinking that if I was new to this game and I had just received the role "Mafia Goon" in a PM, I would without thinking about it refer to that role by its exact name as opposed to referring to it as scum. We managed to confirm a VT in a different game because the new player referred to his role as Townie as opposed to VT. In the PM, the role was called Townie. Since the OP post of the game did not contain role PM's we were thinking that it would be highly unlikely to a scum to come up with the specific role name "Townie" as opposed to VT, which is more common terminology.

Right but this doesn't actually hold for this situation since it's kind of different

The way I read it, Syryana went and read Nero's game and, you know, read

hawkleader3 Nero

Mafia Goon

, lynched Day 2.

So I don't think this applies here.

[buldermar]

Like I'm actually confused as to why I need to specify how bad Pitoli's post was. It added nothing to discussion, asked something that has already been established, and ignored the entire conversation beforehand.

But anyways. Hi buldemar.

Hey =)

I agree that it's bad, but I'm not sure why you find it particularly scummy?

I didn't.

You didn't find it particularly scummy, yet you voting him for his bad post?

You need to read the thread again.

I use my vote to try and get town out of RVS as fast as possible. Pitoli was not a scum vote, it was a reaction test, especially since I was getting bored of talking to FF. And I suppose there was a little bit of suspicion in Pitoli jumping in and not commenting on the interaction between me and FF at all. Pitoli's vanishing act is not what I was trying to achieve.

I missed that post too. Thanks, that does change quite a bit. If anything I think you look even more town.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

After the Nightless game and that wagon on KBW?

It crossed my mind.

I feel like there are fundamental differences between a D2 PoE pre-decided quicklynch and this game.

I can deal with keeping FF around a lot but I would just like to make it known that I have her strongly written down as scum right now.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

*deal with keeping FF around for a bit

[buldermar]

Yep.

First off, "an entire game" is misleading. Nero has maybe 50 posts between 3 games. All of them one-liners.

Secondly, from what I've seen of FF last game, I know that she tries very hard as town. And not once in last game did she ever ask for meta--she preferred to get it herself.

Which is why I think that this is out-of-character for town ff. Along with other things.

Something can't be "misleading" when it's a guess, it's just incorrect or inaccurate, which is entirely different - especially in this context.

All I'm saying is that I find the assertion that her not having read the meta being indicative of her being scum silly.

Which other things?

Well I mean you can call it silly just as I can find you calling someone out for saying "Mafia Goon" instead of "scum" as important silly.

I think #26 is an overreaction given my behavior in RVS. I mean, if you blanked out everything after #26 and looked purely at the first page of posts, to have a townread so strong is unbelievable. I mean, I don't think it's possible to have so strong a townread so early, especially given how uncertain she was last game with me.

Fery pressing me on the Nero issue rubs me in the wrong way.

And the meta thing.

She is by far the best town mafia player I know of and it's not even close. She already indirectly confirmed that she correctly pointed out an entire scum team of four people on day 1 based on very few posts in this thread - that should at least mean something so long as you don't think we have some weird conspiracy going on.

[buldermar]

I was thinking that if I was new to this game and I had just received the role "Mafia Goon" in a PM, I would without thinking about it refer to that role by its exact name as opposed to referring to it as scum. We managed to confirm a VT in a different game because the new player referred to his role as Townie as opposed to VT. In the PM, the role was called Townie. Since the OP post of the game did not contain role PM's we were thinking that it would be highly unlikely to a scum to come up with the specific role name "Townie" as opposed to VT, which is more common terminology.

Right but this doesn't actually hold for this situation since it's kind of different

The way I read it, Syryana went and read Nero's game and, you know, read

hawkleader3 Nero

Mafia Goon

, lynched Day 2.

So I don't think this applies here.

That may be the case.

[fferyllt]

[quote="In post 126
Which game is that?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=26455

At my partner's urging I started a counter-bandwagon on a player, though I preferred the bandwagon that was already building. That bandwagon was off like a shot late at night my time. I unvoted when I thought it got to L-2 IIRC. Neither bandwagon was on scum as it happened. This game is one of the reasons why I doubt my scumhunting is as pinpoint here as it is in an environment where I know all the players well.

[buldermar]

After the Nightless game and that wagon on KBW?

It crossed my mind.

I feel like there are fundamental differences between a D2 PoE pre-decided quicklynch and this game.

I can deal with keeping FF around a lot but I would just like to make it known that I have her strongly written down as scum right now.

Will you at some point before this day ends write down what exactly you think is scummy about her? I know some of it already, but you insinuated that there is more.

[buldermar]

[quote="In post 126
Which game is that?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=26455

At my partner's urging I started a counter-bandwagon on a player, though I preferred the bandwagon that was already building. That bandwagon was off like a shot late at night my time. I unvoted when I thought it got to L-2 IIRC. Neither bandwagon was on scum as it happened. This game is one of the reasons why I doubt my scumhunting is as pinpoint here as it is in an environment where I know all the players well.

Alright, I may have a look at that later when I have more time available.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

She is by far the best town mafia player I know of and it's not even close. She already indirectly confirmed that she correctly pointed out an entire scum team of four people on day 1 based on very few posts in this thread - that should at least mean something so long as you don't think we have some weird conspiracy going on.

Is this referencing some game that I should know about? Because I'm having a tough time figuring what this means.

PEdit: Um. Nekoko wagon was "on scum". Or did you mean neither scum were on the bandwagon?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

After the Nightless game and that wagon on KBW?

It crossed my mind.

I feel like there are fundamental differences between a D2 PoE pre-decided quicklynch and this game.

I can deal with keeping FF around a lot but I would just like to make it known that I have her strongly written down as scum right now.

Will you at some point before this day ends write down what exactly you think is scummy about her? I know some of it already, but you insinuated that there is more.

I feel like I summed it up already but I'll make a summative case tomorrow at the beach. I'm heading off to bed for now.

[fferyllt]

She is by far the best town mafia player I know of and it's not even close. She already indirectly confirmed that she correctly pointed out an entire scum team of four people on day 1 based on very few posts in this thread - that should at least mean something so long as you don't think we have some weird conspiracy going on.

Is this referencing some game that I should know about? Because I'm having a tough time figuring what this
means.

PEdit: Um. Nekoko wagon was "on scum". Or did you mean neither scum were on the bandwagon?

i was referring to the earlier wagon...kbw vs fuduzn.

[AngryPidgeon]

"You are making

such

a mistake" - Admiral Cain

Vote Count 1.5

pitoli [3/5] - Sotty7, Syryana, Nero
fferyllt [2/5] - Deltabacon, orcinus_theoriginal
Syryana [1/5] - Lurker
Sotty7 [1/5] - pitoli

Pacifists (Not Voting): buldermar, fferyllt

Deadline: April 16th at Noon (GMT-8)

(expired on 2013-04-16 12:00:00)

Mod Notes:

[fferyllt]

Need more content from Lurker, obviously.

[fferyllt]

Lol hey cool look at that.

I would've called for a PL right out of a gate is what I meant.

This fixation on small details doesn't seem like scumhunting. What exactly are you doing right now ff and what do you hope to get out of this conversation?

I would love to put FF at L-1 right now but I'm afraid of an unpredictable idiot named Nero.

Inconsistencies grab my attention.

I hope to figure some people out, though I usually better on more sleep. I woke up and got back into this thread around 4 am my time. It's 6 am now. Coffee would probably help.

I liked Syryana's last post.

Do you think anything about Syryana specifically writing out "Mafia Goon" as opposed to just saying "scum"? I have some thoughts about it, but I'd like to hear yours first.

He's new to the site I think but obviously has mafia experience from his posts.

Hm. Remembering my first game here, I was a lot more careful of local terminology than I've been in later games. I was scum, and that played into my punctiliousness.

I was thinking that if I was new to this game and I had just received the role "Mafia Goon" in a PM, I would without thinking about it refer to that role by its exact name as opposed to referring to it as scum. We managed to confirm a VT in a different game because the new player referred to his role as Townie as opposed to VT. In the PM, the role was called Townie. Since the OP post of the game did not contain role PM's we were thinking that it would be highly unlikely to a scum to come up with the specific role name "Townie" as opposed to VT, which is more common terminology.

Interesting. Maybe. I'd be more comfortable making a townie call on role pm wording that than a scum call. The cardflip in the game we were talking about specified "Mafia Goon".

[buldermar]

She is by far the best town mafia player I know of and it's not even close. She already indirectly confirmed that she correctly pointed out an entire scum team of four people on day 1 based on very few posts in this thread - that should at least mean something so long as you don't think we have some weird conspiracy going on.

Is this referencing some game that I should know about? Because I'm having a tough time figuring what this means.

PEdit: Um. Nekoko wagon was "on scum". Or did you mean neither scum were on the bandwagon?

It is referencing a game, but not one you can know about - sorry about that.