Open 480 - C9++ Game Over!

[Thurhame]

I'm relatively sure RBs don't work on RBs

I'm relatively sure they do.

@Mod: Can we get a confirmation on this?

Roleblockers can block other roleblockers, NAR is used if that occurs (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... Resolution)

[Belisarius]

So shouldn't we focus on NS then since he is you know...claiming a role blocker

I don't see how NS's RB claim makes him more likely to be the one who roleblocked me. This whole discussion is WIFOM.

[Human Destroyer]

Beli is not claiming RB

I know but my point is NS could've roleblocked the Mafia RBer and it would've had no effect

[ac1983fan]

UNVOTE:

Beli is not claiming RB

I know but my point is NS could've roleblocked the Mafia RBer and it would've had no effect

There's nothing in the Roleblocker role PM which indicates this.

That makes Susan confirmed Town (unless NS or Beli is lying).

By what logic? There are almost certainly two mafiosos left...PoPC could have been the scum who didn't submit any night actions.

Nope. According to the wiki page linked in one of the mod's opening posts, the Mafia Roleblocker is not allowed to block and kill in the same night.

With that being said, I think i see your logic now...I think what we actually have is one of the following situations:
1) Beli, Nobody Special, and POPC are all town
2) Two of POPC, Beli, and Nobody Special are scum.

Now, if the case is 1, and making the assumption that HD was being truthful, that means we drew MMCCVB?. If the ? is a T, then there would be a serial killer present; but this is unlikely, seeing as we have had two consecutive nights with only one nightkill (and the claimed blocker claimed to not have used his action N1). So the ? would almost certainly be another non-T; which means that, if 1 is true and HD is being truthful, there needs to be at least one other power role out there. Alternatively, 1 could be true but HD could be scum, which would give us MMCCBTT, which is consistent with all flips so far.
On the other hand, if 2 is true, then HD must be being truthful as there are no more slots for scum. So, assuming there is not a serial killer because a preponderance of the evidence points to that conclusion) our draws would have to be either MMVTTCC (assuming Beli is the truther); MMVTTB? (assuming NS is truth-telling); or one of MMVTT?? or MMV???? (? is non-T).
Now my logic could be erroneous and the assumption that there is no SK MIGHT be unfounded...But I think 1 is fairly likely to be true; I also think that if 2 is true, then Beli is probably the truth-teller of the group.

With that being said...An easy way to check this situation is to lynch one of POPC, Beli, and NS; of the three NS is the "lynch of least resistance" because he has seemingly not really been trying at all - but I don't know that that is the "best use" of a day.

I'm not sure how to proceed, frankly.

[Human Destroyer]

There's nothing in the Roleblocker role PM which indicates this.

Natural Action Resolution dictates it I think.

I might be wrong on my interpretation of it though.

[ac1983fan]

There's nothing in the Roleblocker role PM which indicates this.

Natural Action Resolution dictates it I think.

I might be wrong on my interpretation of it though.

I don't see anything in Natural Action Resolution nor the Roleblocker wiki page which indicates this.
In fact, according to the wiki...

Suppose Roleblocker A blocks Roleblocker B, who blocks Roleblocker C, who blocks Roleblocker D, who blocks Doctor E. If Roleblocks are resolved in such a way that conflicts are minimized, A blocks B, preventing B from blocking C, thus C blocks D, preventing D from blocking the Doctor - in short, the Doctor's protection would have an effect. If all Roleblocks are simultaneous, the only player who is NOT technically Roleblocked is A; the Doctor would be blocked.

And ordinarily, "The prevailing opinion is that Roleblocks are resolved in such a way that conflicts are minimized." Although apparently there is an alternative where everyone targeted by a roleblocker is roleblocked, which would mean that a town roleblocker roleblocking a mafia roleblocker would do essentially nothing...but that doesn't seem to be the preferred resolution.

[Thurhame]

There's nothing in the Roleblocker role PM which indicates this.

Natural Action Resolution dictates it I think.

I might be wrong on my interpretation of it though.

Suppose NS (Town Roleblocker) blocked Susan (Mafia Roleblocker), who blocked Beli (Town Cop). By Natural Action Resolution, NS's action is resolved first, because it is the only action unaffected by other actions. So NS blocks Susan, and Beli is free to investigate.

[Thurhame]

I'm going to assume (for now) that Beli and NS are telling the truth. The fact that they both targetted Susan makes me think they're thinking similarly.

VOTE: Cheery Dog

[implosion]

I'm going to assume (for now) that Beli and NS are telling the truth. The fact that they both targetted Susan makes me think they're thinking similarly.

VOTE: Cheery Dog

ahuepfhasiodbnaoiusdhfpgoijdls;zkjgl;kzjds;l;;;;

Beli claimed to target susan
THEN NS claimed to target susan
people are capable of lying

[implosion]

UNVOTE:

Beli is not claiming RB

I know but my point is NS could've roleblocked the Mafia RBer and it would've had no effect

There's nothing in the Roleblocker role PM which indicates this.

That makes Susan confirmed Town (unless NS or Beli is lying).

By what logic? There are almost certainly two mafiosos left...PoPC could have been the scum who didn't submit any night actions.

Nope. According to the wiki page linked in one of the mod's opening posts, the Mafia Roleblocker is not allowed to block and kill in the same night.

With that being said, I think i see your logic now...I think what we actually have is one of the following situations:
1) Beli, Nobody Special, and POPC are all town
2) Two of POPC, Beli, and Nobody Special are scum.

Now, if the case is 1, and making the assumption that HD was being truthful, that means we drew MMCCVB?. If the ? is a T, then there would be a serial killer present; but this is unlikely, seeing as we have had two consecutive nights with only one nightkill (and the claimed blocker claimed to not have used his action N1). So the ? would almost certainly be another non-T; which means that, if 1 is true and HD is being truthful, there needs to be at least one other power role out there. Alternatively, 1 could be true but HD could be scum, which would give us MMCCBTT, which is consistent with all flips so far.
On the other hand, if 2 is true, then HD must be being truthful as there are no more slots for scum. So, assuming there is not a serial killer because a preponderance of the evidence points to that conclusion) our draws would have to be either MMVTTCC (assuming Beli is the truther); MMVTTB? (assuming NS is truth-telling); or one of MMVTT?? or MMV???? (? is non-T).
Now my logic could be erroneous and the assumption that there is no SK MIGHT be unfounded...But I think 1 is fairly likely to be true; I also think that if 2 is true, then Beli is probably the truth-teller of the group.

With that being said...An easy way to check this situation is to lynch one of POPC, Beli, and NS; of the three NS is the "lynch of least resistance" because he has seemingly not really been trying at all - but I don't know that that is the "best use" of a day.

I'm not sure how to proceed, frankly.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

The night results imply

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

about popc's alignment.

If no one else claims a PR, then the possibilities are these AND ONLY THESE:
MMCCVTT (hint: this is the setup)
MMCCVBT (there's no serial killer so probably not this)
MMCCBTT (HD is town and NS is scum, so this isn't the setup, but if you read them oppositely then this is a legitimate viewpoint)

If someone else claims one letter worth of PR and is telling the truth, these are the possibilities:
MMCC*TT (which implies ns + hd)
MMVB*TT (which implies beli + ?)
MMCCVB* (again, probably not the setup)

we need to know which of these possibilities we're dealing with.

Which is why we massclaim.

If there are any downsides please list them because you're wrong.

in fact i've basically claimed VT earlier in this post so why don't i get the ball rolling: I'm a vt.

everyone just claim, it doesn't even need to be organized, scum know what they're claiming and they know what's out there.

[Cheery Dog]

But popcorning it makes it more fun to do.

Though you probably have a point in us not needing to bother with it.

vanilla townie.

[Thurhame]

I'm a VT

@implosion: You're forgetting MMCCV*T (not likely because it needs serial killer) and MMCCB*T (not likely because HD is town, but would make perfect sense if he was sk faking 1-shot vig).

[implosion]

That just leaves ac1983fan, SafetyDance, and pieceofpecanpie unclaimed.

[ac1983fan]

Vanilla Townie as well.

[Thurhame]

I just found this reading back through my votechart.

VOTE:

edosurist

Nothing I've seen from him today has really changed what I've thought about him.

Vote: ac1983fan

NS votes AC right after AC joins the Edos wagon, with no reasoning given.

[Human Destroyer]

I'm going to assume (for now) that Beli and NS are telling the truth. The fact that they both targetted Susan makes me think they're thinking similarly.

VOTE: Cheery Dog

ahuepfhasiodbnaoiusdhfpgoijdls;zkjgl;kzjds;l;;;;

Beli claimed to target susan
THEN NS claimed to target susan
people are capable of lying

this is a decent point

we should've had ns claim first

[ac1983fan]

I just found this reading back through my votechart.

VOTE:

edosurist

Nothing I've seen from him today has really changed what I've thought about him.

Vote: ac1983fan

NS votes AC right after AC joins the Edos wagon, with no reasoning given.

Yeah, but when I asked him later he said it was for the same reasons that he voted me yesterday. Which was pretty flimsy reasoning anyway.

Also hey, wait a second...Other than hopping on the Apozzle and Goodmorning wagons D1, the only person you've voted for all game has been me. yet last night you blocked POPC?

VOTE: Nobody Special

[Thurhame]

Cub is weak scum for the tunneling on NS.

Then he proceeds to vote Safety, who had also been focusing on NS (or on connections with NS? I didn't really understand it, and neither did anyone else as far as I could see).

I intentionally skipped NS because I'm only voting for him if we have no other choice.

Here and elsewhere, he milks the meta argument as a reason to avoid lynching NS regardless of his alignment.

Given the evidence, I am willing to vote NS in spite of his claim.
VOTE: Nobody Special

[Cheery Dog]

With that being said, I think i see your logic now...I think what we actually have is one of the following situations:
1) Beli, Nobody Special, and POPC are all town
2) Two of POPC, Beli, and Nobody Special are scum.

There's an option of only one of POPC, Beli and NS being scum.
It does depend on what the remaining two claims are though.
If they're both VTs as well, then we can confirm Beli as telling the truth, and either there's a SK hiding they're existence or one of NS/HD is lying.
If we have one more letter then everybody is still possible scum. (unless it's a 1-shot RB, in which case NS is cleared except for possibly with that person)
If we have two or more letters, then it's guaranteed that at least 1 PR claim is lying.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Hey I'm back from V/LA. Just popped in to say I'll lay down something soon. I've only had time to skim the thread.

So we're claiming 'ey, I see no harm in me putting it out there that I'm a

Vanilla Townie

.

[SafetyDance]

I didn't really want massclaim this early so I could gauge people's day play but oh well, it will make today's lynch easier, especially since everyone else VT claimed.

Claim: One-Shot Cop

Investigated last night:

GUILTY

pieceofpecanpie

VOTE: pieceofpecanpie

[Belisarius]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pieceofpecanpie

[Human Destroyer]

VOTE: POPP

Either we have an SK or NS is scum

Either that or SD and Beli are performing the stupidest scum gambit ever

[Thurhame]

VOTE: pieceofpecanpie

This means either:

• Susan and NS are scum, and there is an unknown SK; or
• Susan and Beli are scum, and Beli performed the kill; or
• Safety is scum.

[Thurhame]

HD, recheck your letters.