[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Cheery Dog]

Most games here have day starts, it probably changes the mechanics you just said I where I think you had a night start.

[TehBrawlGuy]

@tehbrawlguy

with 20 players, consider that after a n1 nk and 2 investigations each then a mislynch and 2 kills n2, the odds are overwhelming that the game rests at 17 players

on more mislynch one more night kill and mafia have a moderate chance of being well educated on posible allies and havea voting block of 4 out of a total of 13 players.

one more mislynch and one more night kill lands it at near mafia autowin. lynching correctly at this point or anything past this is still a likely mafia win... so town essentially has 2 mislynches to gain the advantage before scum can handily dominate with little effort

seemed like a good balance to me considering you prefer the idea of mafia being more informed with reports than town.

It would definitely be Day start. I'm pretty okay with mafia being in a really good place if town mislynches 3 times while the mafia gets 6 correct kills off, and even then, it would still be 4 scum with 7 town. (albeit with two scum NKs) Town would be in LyLo or MyLo for the rest of the game so long as the mafia didn't crosskill, which seems fair. You may have been right with 20, although it still feels big to me. I kind of want to put a mechanic in place to make LyLo closer numbers wise, so that that town can't lose a 4 scum v. 6 town game with two correct lynches.

[Ineffective]

mafia crosskilling should never happen. ever. optimal first action will always be to use 2 investigations, then kill the rest of the game. if you get two innoes first night and lynch outside of them you will always have a buffer of 2 confirmed innos to kill the next night as you get another investigation. if you catch a mafia/ framed your buffer goes down, and if you ever run out of a buffer you can use a second round of double investigations i assume?

[Ineffective]

one mechanic you can add to prevent autoloss when town still outnumbers is to disable nightkills at that point. mafia would still have a decent chance of securing a win with the block. in that case you could have less people

[JacobSavage]

Everyone needs

good

Neighbours v2

• 5 Vanilla Townies
  
• Town Encyrptor
  
• Cop (
  Mafia
  or
  Not Mafia
  )
  
• Bodyguard
  
• Even Night Vigilante
  
• 2 Mafia Goons
  
• Mafia Jailkeeper
  
• Odd Night Serial Killer

Night Start


4 neighborhoods of 3, randomly distributed.
Scum have day talk.

[BBmolla]

What does the Encryptor do

[JacobSavage]

In this set up it grants its neighbourhood DayTalk

[UberNinja]

Pretty sure that's all it ever does.

Encryptor

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Town Encryptor that gives the scum daytalk is not unheard of.

[UberNinja]

Never heard of that one. Wouldn't they want to claim and be lynched immediately?

[JacobSavage]

It gives their neighbourhood day talk.

I.e. whilst they're alive the neighborhood that they are part of gets Daytalk, scum have it automatically.

[petapan]

well, since EM is down for who knows how long, might as well post the setup i'd made here, see what people think:

3 VTs
2 of {Cop, Doc, Watcher, Loudmouth}
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Roleblocker

The loudmouth is a role that appears as VT to themselves, but if visited at night, produces a global announcement of the names of the people that visited them. So it's a...a publishing reflexive self-watcher that is told they're a VT.

my goal here was to make a 7p day start setup (9p was unplayable given the userbase). With most 7p setups, the default strategy became to just mass claim day 1 and lynch from there, and that was pretty boring, but i thought things got too scum-sided in setups with a single PR. adds a luck factor, but 7p open setups are hard and stuff

[Ineffective]

Wait thats the lobl variant that got comped. Didnt know you made that.

Kudos for making pr claiming suboptimal d1 with the loudmouth as a possible pr

[Ineffective]

Also i disagree that having a LM setup makes it too scumsided. Since scum doesnt know if there is a lm a hook or a kill can set it off and confirm mafia

[JacobSavage]

That's one of the things that annoyed me on EM the number of setups that where pretty much broken with their optimal strategies that you got shouted at for not following entirely. ..

Also if a loudmouth gets NKd does it reveal who targeted it that night ?

[Ineffective]

Yes.

Also if it is roleblocked.

[UberNinja]

Loudmouth sounds like a shitty role to have to NK as scum. haha
I can see why they're not told their role.

Theoretically that's a bastard role since you're lying to the player. But whatever.

Watchers are bad though, and reflexive watchers are even worse.

[Ineffective]

That setup was designed for EM, was selected for compitition, and plays well there imo... If you think that is a bastard setup, the setup i made that was selectedfr comp this round is worse lmfao

1 mafia goon
1 mafia role cop
3 loudmouths
3 sleepwalkers

Roles are not revealed upon death

Sleepwalkers appear to self as VT like the loudmouth does, so no townspersons know their role At the beginning of the game.

Sleepwalkers have a mandatory random visit on any player that is alive'

So there you have it, petas setup is standard

[borkjerfkin]

As long as you keep these "Mod is lying to you" roles to open setups I don't think it's terribly bastard. If that ever creeps into closed games you'll have a lot of angry people on your hands.

[UberNinja]

Yeah I agree but people are bitches sometimes and can't handle stuff

It's a damn good thing Godfathers became part of the cultural lexicon early here, otherwise people would bitch about those too

[LlamaFluff]

Anyway, I think Duck Duck Goose needs another townie. With extra townie it actually brings a scum dying due to PGO action to an extra lynch for town. As of now it has same numbers (ie lylo with one scum is at 4P instead of 3P) while with the addition of a townie it would have it at 4P lylo with no success and 3P lylo with town success.

Thoughts on doing one extra town?

Bumping this as it has been a popular setup in the past but the way it currently is there I think its going to be heavily scum sided.

In a situation where scum never get killed at night, its a crushing 8:3 game where town has little if any hope of winning.

In a situation where one scum dies at night (say after a D1 mislynch) its a 6:2 start for the second day, which is still very scum sided as they only need two mislynches.

Essentially the PGO aspect of the game only gives town an extra mislynch is if TWO scum die at night. Even if you assume something like "Scum has a 1/3 chance of dying each night" you are looking at:

30% Scum never die at night
45% One scum dies

So 75% of the time town has only three mislynches to live on. 25% they have four.

If you want to say 50% dying first two nights:

25% Scum never dies
50% one scum dies

So thats the same odds actually just spread differently.

With the addition of the EXTRA vanilla townie though, with one scum death at night the odds are boosted.

Currently there are three mislynches with 0 or 1 death
There four mislynches with two dying

Revised its three mislynches with 0 deaths
Town gets an extra mislynch with any number of deaths

Scum is only punished with some extra revealed information when they kill a player acting. Its not a massive hinerance or something for them to actually be afraid of. When you add the extra player, they have more of a reason to actually play the WIFOM game since a bad call gives information and gives an extra mislynch.

[Docteur Gudsight]

Is 3:8 / 3:9 mountainous nightless considered balanced? Because this setup looks strictly better for the mafia than mountainous nightless given the mafia can choose to play it like that.

[callforjudgement]

3:9 mountainous is really really scumsided. To put it in perspective: 2:11 mountainous has never been won by town, and I've forgotten what the number of townies needed to theoretically balance mountainous against 3 scum is, but IIRC it was something ridiculous like 43. Or to put it in perspective yet another way: 3:9

nightless

mountainous is theoretically balanced.

[Mr. Flay]

Good thing he asked about nightless mountainous, then.

[JacobSavage]

How do you go about determining if a set up is balanced just out of curiosity?