Micro 152 - BSG Mafia (Galactica Survives?)

[fferyllt]

Nero could go in the Unsure leaning scum group, but a couple of his posts did ping hard enough to draw my vote earlier so I'm leaving him in that pile. Deltabacon bothers me almost enough to put him in the scummy pile.

The thought crossed my mind that Lurker and Nero could be the same person using two accounts.

Maybe I've missed it, but why is pitoli in the town pile? I agree that he's town, I just don't recall you having stated why you think so.

Pitoli's later posts impressed me as coming from a town point of view. The players in my unsure pile have not given me nearly that strong a town impression.

[buldermar]

Then you think Kara would be a scum safe claim rather than a town role. And you think that I would have grabbed what would have to be about the best safe claim imaginable and then not come up with an awesome night action or passive power based on her wide array of special abilities and angelic origins.

This is just preposterous. You can't make the decision X and in the same breath claim that you're town because you didn't make the decision Y.

[AngryPidgeon]

Vote Count 1.9

fferyllt [3/5] - Deltabacon, orcinus_theoriginal, Nero
pitoli [1/5] - SafetyDance
buldermar [1/5] - fferyllt
SafetyDance [1/5] - pitoli

Pacifists (Not Voting): Lurker, buldermar, Syryana

Deadline: April 16th at Noon (GMT-8)

(expired on 2013-04-16 12:00:00)

Mod Notes:

*Deltabacon is V/LA through the 7th

[buldermar]

If I were scum about to be day 1 lynched and going with a vanilla safe claim (which would be dumb based on site meta but that's kinda beside the point) I wouldn't have wasted this name.

Same applies to this.

[buldermar]

The bolded in this post 157:

I agree on enough of your points to lean scum, but I just can't stand the thought of mislynching her specifically. You're probably right that I'm being a bit biased and I'll try not to, but I think we should seriously consider lynching someone else for at least day 1.

Here is my concerns:

Np

It's 1am and I just read through ff's only other scum game. This isn't my summarize case but I'm more convinced than ever that FF is scum.

-Ff seems to be more passive and just seems to be less engaged. This is reflected in how FF dealt with Nero.
-Why did she form such a strong read on me from literally 4 one line RVS posts--but not anyone else? Why hasn't she an opinion on Buldemar, who I assume she has offsite experience with? Where is her vote, her other reads? If she's such a strong town player and her 4 vote take it to the grave read on me isn't out of the ordinary, it's strange that she doesn't have a vote down.
-She's been less confrontational, and have expressed very few (if any?) original ideas
-I dislike the syryana vote on page 2. I don't see the pro-town intentions behind it, I don't like how she didn't follow it up
-The KBW thing still confuses me. Why are you referring to it, since you bought it up in reference to a quicklynch? Day 1 of our game was the furthest thing from a quicklynch, ever.
-She's calling out lurker for "needing more content". Don't you need more content from a lot of people (pitoli, etc)? Why singling out lurker, and this insinuates that you don't need more content on anyone else (or at least have enough to work with). I've yet to see an influx of reads from you

And everything previously mentioned

My reading of FF's game really only gave me one thing (well, three, and I'm going to save the other two for later). She's more mellow as scum. And I think I'm seeing that in her posts in this game.

This is just to jot down stuff, ill make a case with specific quotes tomorrow, but this is basically an outline.

I agree that she is more passive than usual in this game.

I don't think the forming of a town read on you based on the few posts is scummy, but I agree that it's a bit odd she has not yet stated her opinion on me, given that she has offsite experience with me. I have one thing to mention regarding this tho... I've talked to her a lot about my scum game and how I feel like I'm particularly good as scum. It could be that she is afraid of forming a town read on me and being wrong because of this. If that's the case it would be a town tell, obviously.

I don't think it's particularly strange that she doesn't have a vote down. In fact, I don't have a vote down myself, and I don't really throw around with my votes all that often. However, I also dislike the vote on page 2. That seemed very much unlike her to me and of all the things you mention, that's probably the one that means the most to me.

Calling out Lurker was odd to me. Not because she didn't call out the other people, but because calling out anyone at this point - with so long until deadline - seems forced.

That was before you did your little stunt.

[buldermar]

buldermar's pushing to keep me alive today despite having a scum read on me, and saying he'd rather go with some other (unspecified at the time) lynch looked pretty horrible in reread. I'm talking specifically about post 157. This was all on spec, apparently assuming I'd be as successful spotting scum day 1 among players I'm mostly unfamiliar with if I'm town.

This is a misrepresentation and I really can't see a way for you to legitimately think that it isn't. 157 was specifically a response to post 154 in which orc asked me:

Buldemar, fear of mislynching completely aside, do you think fery is lean town or lean scum? I think you're letting that cloud your judgement too much. Yes, we should do risk/reward analysis, but I don't think you're giving the fery case a fair chance in your head.

I never assumed that you'd be

as

succesful; I said I'd consider you the strongest town player by far. In fact, I call you out on this bullshit right now: point to the post in which I explicitly or implicitly state that you would be as good in this crowd as in your home setting, please.

I think it

was

implicit in making such a big deal about the game where I did spot 4 scum on day 1 and using that as part of your argument for not lynching me.

I think it's a pretty fucking good reason not to lynch you on day 1 even if you're not expected to be as good in this game, but whatever.

[buldermar]

Nero could go in the Unsure leaning scum group, but a couple of his posts did ping hard enough to draw my vote earlier so I'm leaving him in that pile. Deltabacon bothers me almost enough to put him in the scummy pile.

The thought crossed my mind that Lurker and Nero could be the same person using two accounts.

Maybe I've missed it, but why is pitoli in the town pile? I agree that he's town, I just don't recall you having stated why you think so.

Pitoli's later posts impressed me as coming from a town point of view. The players in my unsure pile have not given me nearly that strong a town impression.

Specifically what?

[fferyllt]

Then you think Kara would be a scum safe claim rather than a town role. And you think that I would have grabbed what would have to be about the best safe claim imaginable and then not come up with an awesome night action or passive power based on her wide array of special abilities and angelic origins.

This is just preposterous. You can't make the decision X and in the same breath claim that you're town because you didn't make the decision Y.

Heh. I resent the implication that I would be terribad scum. My scum game is weak, but I usually come up with a pretty damn good safeclaim when I make one at all. Using an awesome character as a safe claim for a vanilla town role offends my mafia sensibilities. I wouldn't do that.

As we're going to find out pretty soon, looks like.

If I were scum about to be day 1 lynched and going with a vanilla safe claim (which would be dumb based on site meta but that's kinda beside the point) I wouldn't have wasted this name.

Same applies to this.

Same response.

[buldermar]

My scum game is weak, but I usually come up with a pretty damn good safeclaim when I make one at all. Using an awesome character as a safe claim for a vanilla town role offends my mafia sensibilities. I wouldn't do that.

If you pick a while ball as scum 100 times in a row and suddently pick a black ball and claim that this is indicative of you being town would you agree that it's pretty fucking backwards?

[fferyllt]

I liked pretty much everything about this first post, but specifically her observations of orc and you, and her reply to orc about taking the wagon as constructive criticism. Re her comment about you, I had expressed suspicions of your white-knighting pretty early on, but the speed with which replies were flying at the time led me to gloss over some of your posts until later. Her post was one of the reasons I did another reread.

Gut read on ffery – town. Thinking she might seem “less engaged” or proactive because she’s tired of talking to Orc, and being put on the defensive here.

Leaning town on Orc, I’ve never really seen such aggressive honing right out of the gate but he at least seems precise about where he’s pulling evidence. I don’t see it as flopping on scumreads; it’s him wanting to get as many reactions as possible early in the game - seems legit.

Personally I’m liking Buldermar for scum, only because he keeps going on about how valuable Ffery’s going to be. It feels like he’s defending her experience/ability rather than her posts right now.

In response to Orc – I’m newbtown. This is my fourth forum game ever. So thanks – I’ll take that wagon as constructive criticism not to post fluff ever. I still don’t think that warrants so many votes though – a stupid post is not the same as a scummy post. I want to say there’s scum on my wagon, but not sure; either way the votes are weak.

Liked this post. Didn't like that Deltabacon never responded to it.

@Deltabacon
Can you offer any new evidence on ffery since your vote is still on her? Or any other reads you have.
IMO, it looks like you might have sheeped Orc.

And this - it's a good observation. As a recent (presumed) reaction test subject, myself, I think she's handling herself well and she looks town. Very collected for someone with 5 games under her belt.

Personally I’m liking Buldermar for scum, only because he keeps going on about how valuable Ffery’s going to be. It feels like he’s defending her experience/ability rather than her posts right now.

Pitoli's wagon is shit.

Not sure you've said that enough times...

Do you think I would have gotten this many votes if you hadn't voted me as a reaction test?


@SafetyDance: Welcome!

All in all, to the extent that a town read by a dead town player matters, she's got mine. Just wish I'd had more to evaluate - not just from her but from basically every player besides you and orcinus.

[fferyllt]

My scum game is weak, but I usually come up with a pretty damn good safeclaim when I make one at all. Using an awesome character as a safe claim for a vanilla town role offends my mafia sensibilities. I wouldn't do that.

If you pick a while ball as scum 100 times in a row and suddently pick a black ball and claim that this is indicative of you being town would you agree that it's pretty fucking backwards?

This is a team game.

You're suggesting that if I were scum I'd intentionally fuck over my team by wasting an awesome name claim that would have been great for a fake power role claim later in the game.

Kara Thrace is my character's name. Vanilla is my role.

[buldermar]

Ofc you'd use a great fake power role claim if it would keep you alive - which is exactly what you're attempting to make it do right now.

Will read 309 tomorrow.

[fferyllt]

Ofc you'd use a great fake power role claim if it would keep you alive - which is exactly what you're attempting to make it do right now.

Will read 309 tomorrow.

Not if I planned to claim to be vanilla.

Jesus.

You're not this dense. You're scum.

To the extent I enjoy this at all, I am enjoying that you've made tomorrow uncomfortable for yourself by bigging up my scumhunting earlier. Good luck taking it back.

[Syryana]

VOTE: buldermar

[fferyllt]

If someone doesn't beat me to it, I'll self-vote after I have one last chance to interact with buldermar. If I'm wrong about him, I'll retract my scum read before I flip.

I don't often lecture you, but in this situation I'd say that self-voting is considerably anti-town as you effectively deprive town some information that could have been obtained from vote analysis.

I'm off to bed soon, but I'll respond to every question you may have as detailed as possible when I wake up.

It's carefully worded, but there's an assumption in here that I'd be moved by the argument that self-voting would deprive town of information.

I think that's assumption that I'm town.

[Lurker]

VOTE: Buldermar

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: buldermar

VOTE: Buldermar

Bad vote

Bad vote

[fferyllt]

Hey orcinus, you feel like comparing notes on players?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Okay

You've lost your obv scum vibe fwiw but still my strongest

I swear to god ill get to that case today

[fferyllt]

I left my semi-ranked list earlier, just in case. How does it jibe with your thoughts?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Townish

orcinus
pitoli

Unsure:

SafetyDance
Syryana

Unsure leaning scum
Lurker
Deltabacon

Scummy:

buldermar
Nero

Nero could go in the Unsure leaning scum group, but a couple of his posts did ping hard enough to draw my vote earlier so I'm leaving him in that pile. Deltabacon bothers me almost enough to put him in the scummy pile.

The thought crossed my mind that Lurker and Nero could be the same person using two accounts.

Pitoli is null lean town. She hasn't done anything too townie, and her behavior as a whole has been null for me. I have her leanin town because of the terrible wagon

I think Nero is lean scum because town Nero wouldn't quote something he wrote in a scum game

Buldemar...I don't know. I feel like he's town because of his reasoning in catch-up. His vote on you wasn't scummy because I did bring up new points that I hadn't before. It's very possible that that convinced him.

I concur on delta bacon.

Why is lurker lean scum?

[fferyllt]

Lurker's posts when he came back to the game seemed opaque and almost trolling to me.

Re buldermar, do you see what I was getting at in his post about not final-voting myself? I also thought he was being intentionally dense about what I was saying about not wasting a good safe claim on a vanilla town fake role claim if I were scum.

His early heavy-duty wking raised my neck hairs, but left me unsure and waffling about whether to trust he was town or not. I felt like he was setting an impossibly high bar for me to meet - the best day I can remember ever playing. Our interactions today haven't made me think he's town. Quite the contrary.

But.

I'm weighing my 100% certainty of my alignment against the possibility that not being mislynched today just puts it off a day, and we potentially mislynch another town player today instead. If I have doubts that an alternative lynch is scum, I'm the better lynch. I don't like giving up and won't stop scumhunting, but I dislike being a liability to my team even more.

[pitoli]

I'm very apprehensive of how quickly we got to L-1 on ffery. The last few pages have been weird honestly and hard for me to read a la ffery's and buldermar's new cases. I like that buldermar at least unvoted whilst not backing down from his position, that makes him seem more town to me than anything else he's done.

Lurker and Nero just seem opportunistic to me, I'd be willing to lynch either of them until they become more open with their reads/reactions to the last couple of pages.

@Sryrana - what made you change your vote so quickly?

@Ffery - I feel like town should fight harder against their own mislynch since you're at least confirmed to yourself, no matter how great your doubts are on another town-looking mislynch. Do you think your lynch would provide the town with the most information?

Never watched BSG so I really don't get the references/significance of claiming Kara, I think that particular point is moot.

[pitoli]

Also UNVOTE:

No use in voting someone who isn't here.

[AngryPidgeon]

bumpity bump