Micro 152 - BSG Mafia (Galactica Survives?)

[orcinus_theoriginal]

SD/Buldermar, cool it

[Nero]

you're so funny safety dance, and if you're town you better start cooperating with me.

[fferyllt]

This looks like an awesome time to go have some pho and let the dust settle.

Any posts from me in the next hour are phone posts and evidence of my obsessiveness.

[Nero]

Alright

Is that scum pool in order?

no

[buldermar]

If you're capable and not trying to be anti-town, it would be extremely fucking useful for someone like you who seems to adopt an "quantity over quality" mantra to actually give us a summarised post of your reads and reactions to the other two so we have a god damn clue about everything you think and where the three of you stand.

If you can't understand that then you need to go back and get a refund on your lobotomy.

I can understand it but really I'm not going to do the work for you. Ask someone nice like ff, she's usually more diplomatic when it comes to this kind of stuff that I am. Alternatively, just read the thread.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

SD:
I'm universally town read and so is buldermar if you need to sheep, we're good targets

We have two prof lurkers in town, Lurker and Nero.

Fery is an experienced player with a good town game, claimed VT after getting to l-1, I don't want to lynch but buldermar does. I built case first (ill find it later), buldermar argued that fery shouldn't be lynched because she could be a boon to town. We've basically swapped positions since.

[buldermar]

Vote: Nero

I'm seeing no play here that is pro-town or helpful in anyway.

fwiw I entirely agree with this observation. At least it means that you're genuinely interested in understanding what's going on.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Alright

Is that scum pool in order?

no

Go order it, in prio of lynch targets

[Nero]

ffery --> the rest

[Nero]

we could just mass claim today

[buldermar]

we could just mass claim today

Yeah you'd like that wouldn't you.

[Nero]

--> lynch the dodgy claims

Win.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I expect to get lynched early as town more than is my "normal" at MS, in part because my play style evolved elsewhere and it's going to change as I get used to this site. changes are almost always suspicious in mafia. I think my insistence on earning my reputation here instead of importing it from elsewhere is also going to cause trouble, but I'm ok with that.

Np

It's 1am and I just read through ff's only other scum game. This isn't my summarize case but I'm more convinced than ever that FF is scum.

-Ff seems to be more passive and just seems to be less engaged. This is reflected in how FF dealt with Nero.
-Why did she form such a strong read on me from literally 4 one line RVS posts--but not anyone else? Why hasn't she an opinion on Buldemar, who I assume she has offsite experience with? Where is her vote, her other reads? If she's such a strong town player and her 4 vote take it to the grave read on me isn't out of the ordinary, it's strange that she doesn't have a vote down.
-She's been less confrontational, and have expressed very few (if any?) original ideas
-I dislike the syryana vote on page 2. I don't see the pro-town intentions behind it, I don't like how she didn't follow it up
-The KBW thing still confuses me. Why are you referring to it, since you bought it up in reference to a quicklynch? Day 1 of our game was the furthest thing from a quicklynch, ever.
-She's calling out lurker for "needing more content". Don't you need more content from a lot of people (pitoli, etc)? Why singling out lurker, and this insinuates that you don't need more content on anyone else (or at least have enough to work with). I've yet to see an influx of reads from you

And everything previously mentioned

My reading of FF's game really only gave me one thing (well, three, and I'm going to save the other two for later). She's more mellow as scum. And I think I'm seeing that in her posts in this game.

This is just to jot down stuff, ill make a case with specific quotes tomorrow, but this is basically an outline.

SD: I'm going through the thread and picking out important posts

Read p7 in its entirety, it's important

[SafetyDance]

Bring it on princess.

The entire other player base, heck even the mod, COMBINED doesn't have equal posts to you lot. HOW IS HAVING TO ISO EVERYONE ELSE JUST TO FIND THEIR POSTS CONDUCIVE TO TRYING TO FIND SCUM? Riddle me that one Batman.

You were more useful before you started posting, at least we didn't have anyone attempting to lower the activity further in this game.

My suggestion is that you get your work-shoes on and spend that ~hour it takes reading the thread in its entirety, and that you stop blaming others for your own laziness.

I'm posting aren't I? That means I've read the thread. You could try and be helpful for a change.

Lower activity further? I'm trying to curb a third of the town running riot and spamming up the game and creating giant Quote Walls that are no fucking use. How about you stop being lazy and selfish yourself, learn not to press that submit button every two seconds and actually condense what you want to say into one or two posts.

[Nero]

safetydance - "omg stop posting on a mafia forum"

[SafetyDance]

SD:
I'm universally town read and so is buldermar if you need to sheep, we're good targets

We have two prof lurkers in town, Lurker and Nero.

Fery is an experienced player with a good town game, claimed VT after getting to l-1, I don't want to lynch but buldermar does. I built case first (ill find it later), buldermar argued that fery shouldn't be lynched because she could be a boon to town. We've basically swapped positions since.

This is the thing,

why

? Because all I'm getting from fferyllt is a town read. So why are you two town? And I never blazeningly sheep for the sake of it.

Yeah, I've played with Lurker and lurkers before. I don't like their playstyle.

Vote: Nero

I'm seeing no play here that is pro-town or helpful in anyway.

fwiw I entirely agree with this observation. At least it means that you're genuinely interested in understanding what's going on.

And you didn't get that impression from me trying to ask you guys to simply and organise 300+ posts into coherent statements?

NERO

, don't try to be bullish and throw your weight around. You lurk, you post nonsense all game. Either you start playing properly, with reads and engaging with people or you get lynched and learn quickly you need to change.

Right now the way you are acting is scummy. Ergo, vote.

[Nero]

learn2scumhunt then

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Buldermar, fery, help me out

Go ISO yourself and pick a few posts that you think are representative of important landmarks in the game. Just a few.

[Nero]

why not safetydance?

he seems to be a great player

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yep.

First off, "an entire game" is misleading. Nero has maybe 50 posts between 3 games. All of them one-liners.

Secondly, from what I've seen of FF last game, I know that she tries very hard as town. And not once in last game did she ever ask for meta--she preferred to get it herself.

Which is why I think that this is out-of-character for town ff. Along with other things.

Something can't be "misleading" when it's a guess, it's just incorrect or inaccurate, which is entirely different - especially in this context.

All I'm saying is that I find the assertion that her not having read the meta being indicative of her being scum silly.

Which other things?

Well I mean you can call it silly just as I can find you calling someone out for saying "Mafia Goon" instead of "scum" as important silly.

I think #26 is an overreaction given my behavior in RVS. I mean, if you blanked out everything after #26 and looked purely at the first page of posts, to have a townread so strong is unbelievable. I mean, I don't think it's possible to have so strong a townread so early, especially given how uncertain she was last game with me.

Fery pressing me on the Nero issue rubs me in the wrong way.

And the meta thing.

Np

It's 1am and I just read through ff's only other scum game. This isn't my summarize case but I'm more convinced than ever that FF is scum.

-Ff seems to be more passive and just seems to be less engaged. This is reflected in how FF dealt with Nero.
-Why did she form such a strong read on me from literally 4 one line RVS posts--but not anyone else? Why hasn't she an opinion on Buldemar, who I assume she has offsite experience with? Where is her vote, her other reads? If she's such a strong town player and her 4 vote take it to the grave read on me isn't out of the ordinary, it's strange that she doesn't have a vote down.
-She's been less confrontational, and have expressed very few (if any?) original ideas
-I dislike the syryana vote on page 2. I don't see the pro-town intentions behind it, I don't like how she didn't follow it up
-The KBW thing still confuses me. Why are you referring to it, since you bought it up in reference to a quicklynch? Day 1 of our game was the furthest thing from a quicklynch, ever.
-She's calling out lurker for "needing more content". Don't you need more content from a lot of people (pitoli, etc)? Why singling out lurker, and this insinuates that you don't need more content on anyone else (or at least have enough to work with). I've yet to see an influx of reads from you

And everything previously mentioned

My reading of FF's game really only gave me one thing (well, three, and I'm going to save the other two for later). She's more mellow as scum. And I think I'm seeing that in her posts in this game.

This is just to jot down stuff, ill make a case with specific quotes tomorrow, but this is basically an outline.

Personally I’m liking Buldermar for scum, only because he keeps going on about how valuable Ffery’s going to be. It feels like he’s defending her experience/ability rather than her posts right now.

Pitoli's wagon is shit.

VOTE: buldermar

VOTE: buldermar

You're going to have to show me how this sudden change in opinion could possible come from town.

VOTE: ff

I'm so

What?

VOTE: buldermar

VOTE: Buldermar

Bad vote

Bad vote

If ff flips scum, the votes on buldemar need to be looked at

Which of the two latest votes do you think looks worst?

Equally bad, but I think syryana because of that awk vote on p2

VOTE: Nero

Can the three of us truce for the remainder of the day

What in particular made you change your opinion of ff? It feels like you're seing something that I don't because to me she looks more scummy than before especially because of all the self-meta'ing stuff that's supposed to indicate her being town.

Paranoia and the realization that we can't win this game if we don't lynch lurkers

Basically we switched positions

I didn't realize before today just how bad the players aside from the three of us are. If we keep fery around for another day or two, we can get a better and more accurate read. The same cannot be said for the lurkers.

Even if fery is scum, we know literally squat about her partners because nobody is giving enough information to analyze. I'm thinking that we'll learn more about people's alignments if fery were scum from fery than from the people themselves.

Wait

How about

VOTE: Syryana

I really don't want to lynch ff today buldermar but listen

If ff is scum, syryana is likely to be a buddy because of that awkward interaction

Syryana also did that thin where he voted you sheeping ff

If ff is scum, so is syryana (probs). But syr is also scummy independent of

This is good

So if you get enough people to follow you, and you have my cardflip to digest, then who of the players who currently have their votes on me will you think are scum?

With nothing more than what's currently in the thread, I'd have to choose Sotty.

Syrana. Since he tried to cover it up with a pretty bullshit reason. Everyone else at least was pretty open that this was a RVS wagon

Siyrana it is.

VOTE: Syrana

Lol hey cool look at that.

I would've called for a PL right out of a gate is what I meant.

This fixation on small details doesn't seem like scumhunting. What exactly are you doing right now ff and what do you hope to get out of this conversation?

I would love to put FF at L-1 right now but I'm afraid of an unpredictable idiot named Nero.

Inconsistencies grab my attention.

I hope to figure some people out, though I usually better on more sleep. I woke up and got back into this thread around 4 am my time. It's 6 am now. Coffee would probably help.

I liked Syryana's last post.

Quickly (it's 2:30 am), the vote on syryana (we've been though this skipping that)

If ff liked syryana's last post, why did she refer to him as null in all future posts

In the interests of giving you last interactions with people:
UNVOTE:

I don't trust Nero enough to leave you at L-1. I'll put my vote back if your final interactions don't change my mind.

VOTE: buldermar

I still don't understand why

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Nero: if fery's scum, who are we looking at next?

What do we do about Lurker--policy or what?

[buldermar]

Buldermar, fery, help me out

Go ISO yourself and pick a few posts that you think are representative of important landmarks in the game. Just a few.

I'm aware that you wont like this, but it's not going to happen. It's a game of 20 pages with 9 players most of which hardly have posted - it's a quick read and he can just quit being lazy. If he has questions to specific posts I'm fine with answering them.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I expect to get lynched early as town more than is my "normal" at MS, in part because my play style evolved elsewhere and it's going to change as I get used to this site. changes are almost always suspicious in mafia. I think my insistence on earning my reputation here instead of importing it from elsewhere is also going to cause trouble, but I'm ok with that.

Who specifically do you want as an alternative lynch because I haven't seen you scum reading anyone

Your reply looks mostly fair to me

Pedit: and these changes specifically = ?

It just looks like you're giving up now

Pedit: ok
Hi bacon

I think the wagon on pitoli has merit but I'm not going to add to it until she(?) comes back and responds to her wagon.

Nero's going to be a fucking irritant, but it's a 9 player game. If he's not scum I don't want to lynch him.

Np

It's 1am and I just read through ff's only other scum game. This isn't my summarize case but I'm more convinced than ever that FF is scum.

-Ff seems to be more passive and just seems to be less engaged. This is reflected in how FF dealt with Nero.

More engaged in the thread itself, answering questions. I wanted some indication of what I was looking for first, but I went ahead and took a look, saw a ton of one-liner low content replies. Coming back to the thread, and catching up I saw that your PL talk wasn't based on your own experience with Nero in a game(s) so I feel up to speed on Nero. He's a mafia shitposter. If he's scum we may be more likely to catch him by catching his scum buddy.

-Why did she form such a strong read on me from literally 4 one line RVS posts--but not anyone else? Why hasn't she an opinion on Buldemar, who I assume she has offsite experience with?

My strong read is a testament to my vast experience of one game playing with you. Expect a lot of pointing and laughing from the other side of your monitor once my alignment is known, however that happens in this game. It won't be scum laughing at you. If I'm wrong and you're scum then I'll expect the same.

Where is her vote, her other reads? If she's such a strong town player and her 4 vote take it to the grave read on me isn't out of the ordinary, it's strange that she doesn't have a vote down.

I don't remember being all that quick with my vote in the last game we played. Pretty sure I told you or Klick that I won't be chivvied into putting down a vote before I feel it. I voted Syryana based on your read because you were the only town player on the right track in the Nightless game, and I though some pressure in that direction would be a good thing. I took the vote off when I saw some non-random content that I approved of from him.

-She's been less confrontational, and have expressed very few (if any?) original ideas

I'll have to take your word for it that I'm less confrontational than I was in the early hours of the Nightless game. I remember feeling pretty cautious in that game due to the nightless format and the 2 mislynch leeway.

-I dislike the syryana vote on page 2. I don't see the pro-town intentions behind it, I don't like how she didn't follow it up

I asked you to consider who would be scum on my wagon if I was town and you gave me an answer. I put my vote there. I followed it up with an unvote based on content.

-The KBW thing still confuses me. Why are you referring to it, since you bought it up in reference to a quicklynch? Day 1 of our game was the furthest thing from a quicklynch, ever.

We came really close to a quicklynch when Svenskt subbed in. The final lynch was mostly my doing and I was dead wrong. My takeaway from that game was that I should have listened to you more than most of the other players. I'm pretty much implementing that takeaway despite your total misread on me. I know the changes to my game are confusing. But, my motivation is still driven by my town win condition. If that doesn't eventually become obvious in my play, then I'm failing at the most basic aspect of mafia, and I'll own that and hope it doesn't lead to a town loss.

-She's calling out lurker for "needing more content". Don't you need more content from a lot of people (pitoli, etc)? Why singling out lurker, and this insinuates that you don't need more content on anyone else (or at least have enough to work with). I've yet to see an influx of reads from you

absolutely I need more content from pitoli. Lurker has one post, a random vote. In the current mix, that's by far the least amount to go on.

And everything previously mentioned

My reading of FF's game really only gave me one thing (well, three, and I'm going to save the other two for later). She's more mellow as scum. And I think I'm seeing that in her posts in this game.

I'm happy to know that my scum game looks mellow. It's not. Every post and every night action I make as scum is carefully crafted with one goal in mind - get a scum player to endgame with town players who are likely to mislynch. It's anything but mellow.

This is just to jot down stuff, ill make a case with specific quotes tomorrow, but this is basically an outline.

ok.

buldermar, I'm kinda feeling like the scum players aren't playing yet. :/

VOTE: buldermar

What happened? Reread happened. Even as it was unfolding in real time, I was uncomfortable with your extreme white-knighting.. Rereading, I kept asking myself how you'd come into the thread so certain that I'm town. And then I realized that your argument wasn't that I was town. As soon as orcinus gathered his case up into one post, you immediately backed down about my townishness. But you handn't ever argued that you thought I was town, just that I'm a strong town player (was it "strongest town player"?) on my home forum as though that should be enough.

Two mislynches are all we get. And I think you're setting up the opportunity to accomplish that: big me up as a bloodhound, let me help push a mislynch today, and then tomorrow lynch me for not finding scum on day 1. Then it's likely lylo depending on how the nights go.

I have a better idea. Lynch me today and then town can decide tomorrow if I might be right about you.

I liked pretty much everything about this first post, but specifically her observations of orc and you, and her reply to orc about taking the wagon as constructive criticism. Re her comment about you, I had expressed suspicions of your white-knighting pretty early on, but the speed with which replies were flying at the time led me to gloss over some of your posts until later. Her post was one of the reasons I did another reread.

Gut read on ffery – town. Thinking she might seem “less engaged” or proactive because she’s tired of talking to Orc, and being put on the defensive here.

Leaning town on Orc, I’ve never really seen such aggressive honing right out of the gate but he at least seems precise about where he’s pulling evidence. I don’t see it as flopping on scumreads; it’s him wanting to get as many reactions as possible early in the game - seems legit.

Personally I’m liking Buldermar for scum, only because he keeps going on about how valuable Ffery’s going to be. It feels like he’s defending her experience/ability rather than her posts right now.

In response to Orc – I’m newbtown. This is my fourth forum game ever. So thanks – I’ll take that wagon as constructive criticism not to post fluff ever. I still don’t think that warrants so many votes though – a stupid post is not the same as a scummy post. I want to say there’s scum on my wagon, but not sure; either way the votes are weak.

Liked this post. Didn't like that Deltabacon never responded to it.

@Deltabacon
Can you offer any new evidence on ffery since your vote is still on her? Or any other reads you have.
IMO, it looks like you might have sheeped Orc.

And this - it's a good observation. As a recent (presumed) reaction test subject, myself, I think she's handling herself well and she looks town. Very collected for someone with 5 games under her belt.

Personally I’m liking Buldermar for scum, only because he keeps going on about how valuable Ffery’s going to be. It feels like he’s defending her experience/ability rather than her posts right now.

Pitoli's wagon is shit.

Not sure you've said that enough times...

Do you think I would have gotten this many votes if you hadn't voted me as a reaction test?


@SafetyDance: Welcome!

All in all, to the extent that a town read by a dead town player matters, she's got mine. Just wish I'd had more to evaluate - not just from her but from basically every player besides you and orcinus.

given the near universal certainty that I am scum, pitoli's town read on me is curious. Moving her to unsure.

Post 337 actually makes me feel a lot better about buldermar after rereading last night's posts.

Why? I really feel like I'm lacking a believeable explanation for your sudden change in opinion of me that isn't scum-driven.

Call it an intuitive leap. I've done my best to explain what was an essentially a dawning, stomach-flipping realization that I could be wrong, mostly based on HOW YOU REACTED to my posts.

Townish

orcinus

Unsure:

pitoli
buldermar
SafetyDance
Syryana

Unsure leaning scum

Lurker
Deltabacon

Scummy:

Nero

Probably sheer stubbornness at this point not moving buldermar to the Town list. I've been replying to him like his posts are coming from a town orientation since my first post of the day.

The difference between the two bottom lists is so negligible they could be combined without losing anything meaningful.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I feel like this is misrepresentative

Okay yeah just go read the thread

[pitoli]

Hey guys, just posting quickly after skimming the thread again.

I've got a project due later tonight, after which you can expect updates on my reads, however murky.