Newbie 1345: Mafia in a Bind (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 3.04

Mac (1) - NicCage
NicCage (1) - Mac

Not Voting (3) - Didi, frog, Xiao Long

With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch.

The deadline is Tuesday, April 23, 2013, at 5:40 PM EDT (UTC-4).

[Mac]

Come on town.

Look at Nic sheeping Xiao. It's so damn obviously scum. He's trying to co-ordinate with his buddy without daytalk and cover it with "yeah, I think Xiao is right" - note how he didn't say "I've stated my opinion already"

I'll answer anyone else later. But all you need is that blatant sheeping to know Nic is scum.

[Mac]

Anyone wanna get some discussion going?

Xiao, frog, Didi - your thoughts?

[frog]

You've heard my thoughts several times today. I'd like to know Xiao's thoughts on you and Nic.

[Didi]

Ugh, I don't know, Mac and Nic both bring up semi-decent arguments, not really sure which one of them is the mafia.
Xiao and Frog are making me a bit paranoid with their 'there is no possible way that none of mac/nic are scum', but I suppose it IS extremely unlikely for scum to take such a gambit instead of just hammering and winning.

I'm leaning towards Nic atm

[Mac]

Didi there is no way this is town v town because if we were both town and voting each other, scum could just vote either of us, reach the lynch and win. Theres no need for them to do that and drag this out.

Obviously I know my role and Nic is confscum, it's just trying to a) show you guys he is and that I'm just an idiot and b) judging the reactions to determine his scumbuddy.

[Xiao Long]

Working on an animation assignment, will do Iso's of Mac and Nic either later tonight or tomorrow. No one drop any votes for now (though I don't think you were going to lol)

[Xiao Long]

Okay, so I've ISO'd both Nic and Mac and the first thing I can say is: holy shit, these player replacements really fuck with reads.
This post isn't going to be very in depth, but I will gladly elaborate if you guys want.

Mac:
Working through Mac's post is easier than Nic's because it's only two different people to pay attention to.
Xeg was a bit null for me, but some things make me skeptical of him. He pushes really hard on Mutley for good reasons, but then randomly says, "I like you" and "Mutley is town" when Mutley didn't really give a worthwhile defense or anything. Now, ignoring the fact that we now know Mutley is town, go reread his posts before his lynch and tell me with a straight face that he's obvtown.
Mac replaces and gives his reads and votes Slimer who we all now know was town cop. Mac has followed Xeg in the flip-floppy area. He starts by thinking Slimer is scum and should be lynched, then says Mutley is scum and should be lynched. He also stated I was the only legit scum in post 371. He continues this thought process after both Mutley and Slimer are gone until I unvote him and he thinks I'm town.


Nic: Nic is harder to read because his character encompassed three different players with three very different personalities.
Fsnake-very passive, generally town actions, but a tad sheepish.
Spadille-starts out the gate immediately with a horrid attack on me trying his best to get votes thrown my way. And that's literally all he did during his short time here.
Nic-Much more level headed and seems to be far more experienced than his predecessors. His first real post is quite town. He tries to get the antagonism between me and Mutley to stop, he also agreed that Spadille's case was awful, yet decided to keep the vote on me. I can't really blame him for that, though. He defends Xeg's actions saying they read town to him, which is interesting considering our current possibility of he and Mac both being scum. He also ran into my Mac vote bait pretty hard.

So, who do I think is scum? ....idk. If I had to choose in the next ten seconds, I'd say Mac. Nic has generally been more confident and rational in his plays.
So, how do we proceed? Well, if you want me to do a more in depth ISO, I will do so tomorrow when I have more time. What I want from ALL OF YOU is an ISO of everyone left in the game and what your reads are on them and why. I will also do this tomorrow as I haven't ISO'd Didi and Frog yet, but I did see some interesting things in my reread.

[Mac]

At what point did I say you were legit scum?

[Xiao Long]

Post 371

[Mac]

Doesnt say you're scum at all?

[Xiao Long]

slimer adding fuel to the flames of xega/xiao and somehow incorporating Fsnake into it. I'm not sure how or why Fsnake comes into this at all other than xiao asking him which side he's on. it's like he's trying to push the three of you into a battle he can watch from the side.

If slimer flips scum, xiao is scum or all three are town I think. xiao is the only legit scum I'd consider because he brought Fsnake into it for nothing and then slimer continued the trend of having Fsnake into it.

It was in the spoiler.

[NicCage]

An ISO of everyone? Okay, but you'll have to wait a little while for that.
Also, I never defended Xeg, I said that his interactions with Mutley made Mutley seem town and that I agreed with his reasons why.

As the only conf-town it's pretty much up to you to decide which one of us is scum, Xiao. If you pick right it'll be obvious from the lack of hammer, and if you pick wrong there will be a hammer.

[Xiao Long]

So much pressure, lol.
Though I don't know why I'm conf-town. It's still possible that I am scum.

[Xiao Long]

And yeah, feel free to take your time. We have a while before deadline.

[Mac]

The key words are "if slimer flips scum" and the only reason I called you "legit scum" there was because, of the three names there, you were the only person I considered who could be scum with slimer.

You say I'm flopping around but I said both slimer and Mutley could be scum and then changed from slimer > Mutley after Mutley did the hammer thing.

[frog]

Alright, I'll get a few of them up today.

[Mac]

Mac replaces and gives his reads and votes Slimer who we all now know was town cop. Mac has followed Xeg in the flip-floppy area. He starts by thinking Slimer is scum and should be lynched, then says Mutley is scum and should be lynched. He also stated I was the only legit scum in post 371. He continues this thought process after both Mutley and Slimer are gone until I unvote him and he thinks I'm town.

Please explain how this is flip-floppy. The only people I have voted for were slimer and Mutley. Both incorrectly but that's not flip-floppy.

Slimer was a mistake: he was just being slimer. Annoying and really scummy but actually town. I did say at one point he was "being slimer" iirc but he was acting peculiar.

Then Mutley did his hammer/unvote and I decided that Mutley should be day one's lynch but slimer went before.

Then came day two.

Here's the funny thing:

The purpose of you wanting to quicklynch Mutley is to limit discussion, the purpose of you effectively hammering Mutley was to end the day early and limit discussion.

> Nic posted after me at the start of day two, also voting Mutley.
> I removed my vote from Mutley, Nic didn't. (Neither did Xiao; another time)

Nic pushed a quicklynch as much as me without actually saying it.

He was letting me take the lead and sheeping me.

Again, I absolutely implore you all to ask yourselves, why would I push for a quicklynch of someone WHO WAS NOT SCUM? The town was searching for Mutley's partner when in fact there were still two others out there. If anything, I did the town a favour. Obviously it was stupid and I regret doing it but the hypocrisy of Nic saying that and then doing the exact same thing should tell you he is the scum here trying to get me lynched.

He's been totally misrepping me saying I read Didi as town when in fact the townslip has nudged me in that direction, not made me think Didi is outright town.

Plus he's misrepping me. I said Didi townslipped

but that could be newb town or faking scum.

And again, just to show you even more scumminess:

VOTE: Mac I think Xiao is right

This effectively says "I'm sheeping townXiao (LIKELY) to get the scum win!"

Come on town. I know I've been an idiot but all the arrows point towards Nic.

[frog]

I'll get to my ISOs later, but I'd just like to address something first.

If you said he was being slimer why did you vote for him?
You unvoted but you've never explained why you put you vote back on Mutley. Why did you put your vote back on Mutley?
Where's your evidence that Nic wanted a quicklynch? Only one person needed to unvote, L-2 is a safe place. Don't kid us, you know that having everyone take their votes off is unrealistic. Besides, Nic didn't quicklynch. Don't deny you're more responsible than he is.
You'd push for a quicklynch for someone who wasn't scum because you are scum and you wanted limited discussion. Why would town push for a quicklynch? You did not do the town a favour in quicklynching because you robbed us of a day of discussion.
We've answered all your concerns over the past few days but you've not addressed them at all. We've said why scum would quicklynch town, we've said why distractions benefit scum. This should be obvious, but it has been stated. Do us a favour and save us from reiterating again and again the same rebuttals to your same points; read our posts!
Mac's refusal to answer any criticisms makes him look incredibly scummy. The difference between Mac and the rest of us is that we answer to scrutiny; Mac shies away from it and this is part of what makes him scum.

[Mac]

THE DISCUSSION OF THE DAY WOULD BE WHO WAS MUTLEY'S SCUM PARTNER.

MUTLEY WAS NOT EVEN SCUM.

WHY WOULD SCUM ME QUICKLYNCH THAT WHEN THE DISCUSSION WAS IRRELEVANT? WHY WOULD SCUM ME STOP TOWN MAKING UP FALSE LINKS BETWEEN MUTLEY AND WHOEVER?

considering quotes like these:

I can't see Mac and Mutely being scum together, not given their current interactions.

it's a stupid theory. I voted Mutley because I hadn't realised he would hammer himself. I unvoted him originally because you asked.

I just totally answered Xiao's criticism of me in the very post before yours, explain how that's shying away from from scrutiny?

I've made my cases and pointed out why Nic's scum. I know I derped, I've probably lost town the game so I apologise. I notice you call me scum but don't vote..

Wouldn't be surprised by a frog and Nic scum team.

[frog]

But he said he'd hammer himself! That vote came out of nowhere, why did you make it in the first place? The shying away from scrutiny part was most obvious 1/2 pages ago when we both remarked it's like hitting our head against a brick wall.
Note I don't like Nic either, but the arguments you're putting forward are so bad that I can't help but rebutt them!
ISO coming now.

[frog]

Xeg's/Mac's ISO:
Early game RVS play is fine but tries to turn Didi's change of vote into a scumtell by saying only the first vote in RVS is random. Continues jovially and talks about counterstrike, serious play begins in post 50 or so where he starts to scrape with Didi over what 'overdefensiveness' is. In post 73 he says makes a criticism towards Didi for showing his hand too early (yet has previously asked for more information) and says that since that's how he plays he isn't scum. At this point there's nothing much solid, except for a bit of hypocrisy and some borderline scumhunting. He appears to vote Mutley since he failed to deliver on a promise, then criticises him for subjectivity when he's engaged with it himself in the same post (105). After the fake hammer (+points, by the way) he perplexingly follows it up by inexplicably backtracking on Mutley and goes from calling him confscum to conftown. He then replaces out.

Overall, I got the impression Xeg was trying to scumhunt, aside from a few scummy or inexplicable moments he's pro-town. However, in light of Mac's play I can see some scumminess in his actions.

Mac replaces in and almost immediately jumps on theslimer's wagon with no individual reasoning whatsoever (look at 369-372). Sets up a potential WIFOM in 376 (remind you of any recent actions? Like 'why would scum hammer town, makes no sense') After the hammer he turns his attention to Mutley and attempts to use my unwillingness to vote as a scumtell the following day. Calls for a quicklunch numerous times but Didi stops him, apologises for his haste, but he votes Mutley (no explanation given for why his vote is back on Mutley, and he's never explained what happened in the interim that made him put his vote back on) which leads to the quicklynch. He claims VT in his first D3 post and then sheeps the dead Mutley in post 470. He says that Mutley 'made perfect sense' after he ISO'd him (which strikes me as a bit

too

convenient). He says Xiao's asking for a vote is scummy (yet he's asked for mine a few posts above, hypocritical much?). He's continually saying things like 'if you lynch me we'll lose', although scum could just as easily say this. He claims that scum would not quickhammer Mutley and in post 567 he says that 'he did the town a favour', aggrandising his scummy action and making it seem pro-town when it wasn't. He makes a lot out of the misinterpretation of Didi's townslip and has tried to deflect attention away from himself by saying that neither Nic nor Xiao unvoted Mutley and fails to concede that quickhammering is an anti-town thing to do. In 567 he accuses Nic of sheeping his vote on Mutley and 'advocating a quicklynch without saying it' but has posted no evidence for this. At a time when he's scummy for quickhammering he's naming other people on the wagon and saying they're scummy just for being on the wagon, which makes him a hypocrite among other things. In 567 he says that at one point he said 'it was slimer just being slimer' but not only has he never posted this

but why would he vote slimer if he thought he was town

? He expects his apologies to get him out of trouble, and engages in appeals to emotion (posts 540, 567, among others), but there's a disparity between his apologies and his refusal to admit that his actions could be seen as scummy.

Xeg's play was null, but Mac's play has incredibly scummy right through the game. You can quite clearly see the dubious nature of his actions and the fact that so few of them are explained. When scrutiny appears he's just repeated his points rather than addressed the rebuttal (scumMac would hammer Mutley to limit discussion and lynch a townie, we've been through this many times with no reasoning on his part as to why this interpretation is wrong). There's been practically no scumhunting as he's tunneled on Mutley most of the time; there's nothing pro-town to his name. He's my top scumread.

This took a lot longer than I thought so give me a few hours for the next one. In short, Nic is the other scum, and Didi and Xiao are town.

[Mac]

You can quite clearly see the dubious nature of his actions and the fact that so few of them are explained. When scrutiny appears he's just repeated his points rather than addressed the rebuttal (scumMac would hammer Mutley to limit discussion and lynch a townie, we've been through this many times with no reasoning on his part as to why this interpretation is wrong).

Bullshit, I just explained AND asked questions a post or so above yours which you ignored. Answer me that.

At least you got one thing right by calling Nic scum.

I'll address other points when I have time.

[Xiao Long]

Mac replaces and gives his reads and votes Slimer who we all now know was town cop. Mac has followed Xeg in the flip-floppy area. He starts by thinking Slimer is scum and should be lynched, then says Mutley is scum and should be lynched. He also stated I was the only legit scum in post 371. He continues this thought process after both Mutley and Slimer are gone until I unvote him and he thinks I'm town.

Please explain how this is flip-floppy. The only people I have voted for were slimer and Mutley. Both incorrectly but that's not flip-floppy.

Your biggest example of flip-flopping was start of day three when you started out basically saying I was confscum, then within the span of a page changed your mind to me being conftown.

WHY WOULD SCUM ME QUICKLYNCH THAT WHEN THE DISCUSSION WAS IRRELEVANT? WHY WOULD SCUM ME STOP TOWN MAKING UP FALSE LINKS BETWEEN MUTLEY AND WHOEVER?

Quicklynching mutley was actually a really good scum idea, because now if we mislynch we lose.

So, you obviously think Nic is scum, can you ISO frog, didi and myself and let us know who you think to be scummiest?

Calls for a quicklunch numerous times but Didi stops him

Wow, Didi, why would you do that? What if we were really hungry?

[frog]

Mac we've elready had those reasons out of you and we've That we've had to push so hard is testament to your anti-town behaviour.

@Xiao, awful typo there, well spotted!