Theme Test Market

[ChannelDelibird]

Yeah, I like the idea of being in a large but playing it like a small, but being more or less obliged to read two other games at the same time if I want to be taken even remotely seriously as protown would remove the benefit for me.

[4nxi3ty]

Thinking of a running 3person LyLo tourney in the Micro queue if there is interest.

9 players. Probly round robin. Just a simple 1 scum vs. 2 town groups, short deadlines. One game at a time while those waiting for their game can discuss in a private qt. Player(s) with best record at the end win. Something like that.

[UberNinja]

^ Lol oh dear. that sounds horrifically exciting

[TehBrawlGuy]

Only problem is that if you start out 0-2 you've already lost. Something more like a single elimination series where a loss = you're out seems more enjoyable.

[Maestro]

I figured that's what he meant - like everybody would play with everybody else in at least one game such that there were enough miniLyLo's that there was actually a CHANCE that 1 (or maybe even 2) losses in the beginning was NOT an insta-lose

I'm guessing you'd be re-rolling between miniLyLo's, sounds like a cool idea btw

[TehBrawlGuy]

I figured that's what he meant - like everybody would play with everybody else in at least one game such that there were enough miniLyLo's that there was actually a CHANCE that 1 (or maybe even 2) losses in the beginning was NOT an insta-lose

I'm guessing you'd be re-rolling between miniLyLo's, sounds like a cool idea btw

No matter how many you had, once you had lost n/2+1, you'd always lose overall unless nobody had won n/2+1. Even in things like baseball, where there's tons of games, teams are mathematically eliminated well before the end.

But yeah, the base concept is really cool and I'd definitely be interested in it.

[Maestro]

Nonono I understand all that - I guess I was just trying to simultaneously convey 1) what my understanding was, and 2) the fact that I disagreed that single-loss elimination would be more enjoyable

this isn't baseball and there's no need to mathematically eliminate players or teams before their time - and I think you're forgetting the fact that if 1 of the people (Scum) loses, there're 2 winners to every LyLo. it might not change things TOO much but it's definitely not as "win/lose you're done you should go" as baseball or whatever

also, it's Mafia - I personally still might wanna play in those quickie LyLo's even if I can't win overall - I don't think "one and done" is the right approach

[SoraAdvent]

Just curious: anyone want a game based on TWEWY?

[TehBrawlGuy]

Odds are still 50/50 to win or lose.

Double or triple elimination maybe? I'd still enjoy the lylos even if I had already lost, but I think having it go just like traditional mafia in the sense that less and less people will play as time goes on would be fine.

@Sora: My very first game was TWEWY themed, so I'd definitely be interested, even if I don't know TWEWY.

[Mr. Flay]

Just curious: anyone want a game based on TWEWY?

Haven't a clue what that is.

[Maestro]

The World Ends With You - Japanese anime-themed adventure/RPG Nintendo DS game

[4nxi3ty]

I figured that's what he meant - like everybody would play with everybody else in at least one game such that there were enough miniLyLo's that there was actually a CHANCE that 1 (or maybe even 2) losses in the beginning was NOT an insta-lose

I'm guessing you'd be re-rolling between miniLyLo's, sounds like a cool idea btw

this. It would take four rounds for everyone to play each other.

I believe double and triple elimination would take a longer time to finish.

Round robin seems to be the fairest way to deal with the randomness of pairings.

plus even if you're down 2 games, I believe some people would enjoy trying to win with a better record than 0-4.

does 5 day deadlines sound good?

[xRECKONERx]

It's not really mafia if its only 3p lylo

[4nxi3ty]

you could look at it like that
still informed minority vs. uninformed majority, just in the most basic of sense

[Docteur Gudsight]

It looks like an hybrid competition of "popularity contest" + "avoid drawing town PM" (given mafia has 2/3 chance of winning, assuming random lynch).

But if people enjoy that...

[4nxi3ty]

I prefer to see it as "early game instincts" + "a bit of metagaming"

honestly I am a tad worried the games will be trivial and shallow due to how small they are; I'm hoping people take note of how others behaved in previous Lylos and adapt, which should add some depth.

but, y'know, we'll see how it turns out and if it deserves criticism than it does.

[TehBrawlGuy]

It looks like an hybrid competition of "popularity contest" + "avoid drawing town PM" (given mafia has 2/3 chance of winning, assuming random lynch).

But if people enjoy that...

Two people win when town wins, though. Even if town lose 2/3rds of the games, an equal # of town and scum players will win on average.

[Nexus]

I need two reviewers for my WWE Mini Theme please.

[Bitmap]

Anyone interested in a Hacker-esque mafia game?

[DCLXVI]

Would like two people to review my mini theme game for balance.

[Cheery Dog]

I just thought about the mass of data I'm pulling of my current idea, but I feel like I should actually ask in here about it before continuing to go through the remaining 3,000+ games.

I'm thinking along the idea of making a setup based on the roles of day 1 lynches of past games, and have been wasting time going through and finding the lynchee, role and flavour for each death from all games on here except marathons. At present I'm grabbing all the ones that have finished while I've been a member, but in doing so, I'm encounted problems and/or better ideas. Though I'll probably continue even though I'm only halfway through all the games to just check on balance requirements.
Which is why I'm now coming to this thread.

Should people just not care about balance, you can have the setup I pulled by looking at all threads in the completed games categories (3721) and pulling out random numbers from it to get a 3x goon v 2x SK (one odd-night and one compulsive bulletproof) v 7 VTs and a back-up doctor. But let's assume you do care about balance and I'll ask about games I should select to be included.

• What should I do with night start games?
  
• Should all lynches from games with multiple lynches on day 1 be counted (ie double day unlimited/otherworld mafia)?
  
• Do Day-1 day kills effect anything? (same as night starts)
• With hidden role details (ie medical mafia), should they still have those limitations or be told what they are (since they would be able to research it themselves) or just not count these games?
  
• Should a role that came from a setup with different mechanics still use those mechanics?
  
• What happens if I draw one Mason/Lover? (current thoughts are the same as it happened in great idea mafia)
  
• How do I deal with back-ups?
  
• Should I stop data collecting and just use whatever games where the people that sign up have been lynched Day 1? (Placing entry restrictions)
  
  • Would it then be better to open up for any lynch for better balance options?

Setup is at this stage going to be called "Second Chance Draw".

Whichever options I end up doing, I plan to reselect if town doesn't have any power roles or I don't have enough mafia to make a team.

[Mr. Flay]

Anyone interested in a Hacker-esque mafia game?

Explain more? I mean probably there's interest, but a risk with that stuff is the 'it doesn't work like you think in the movies' argument you might get.

[Faraday]

What should I do with night start games?
Should all lynches from games with multiple lynches on day 1 be counted (ie double day unlimited/otherworld mafia)?
Do Day-1 day kills effect anything? (same as night starts)
With hidden role details (ie medical mafia), should they still have those limitations or be told what they are (since they would be able to research it themselves) or just not count these games?
Should a role that came from a setup with different mechanics still use those mechanics?
What happens if I draw one Mason/Lover? (current thoughts are the same as it happened in great idea mafia)
How do I deal with back-ups?
Should I stop data collecting and just use whatever games where the people that sign up have been lynched Day 1? (Placing entry restrictions)
Would it then be better to open up for any lynch for better balance options?

• A Day 1 lynch is a day 1 lynch. Count Night start.
  
• If you're only counting the first lynchee ignore daykills. I mean you can include day 1 daykills if you want but meh.
  
• Eh, shoehorning in like the mechanics of a role in AGM's defcon would just be weird. It'd also confirm the player as either alignment dependant on the mechanic? It's also just messy.
  
• If you're giving them a game link then they can find this out themselves, right?
  
• Use the same thing as great idea, yeah.
  
• Well what's the problem? You can have a back up cop without a cop, anyway. So does it matter? Universal backups are fine, anyway.
  
• That could work, but would require effort at the time. it's definitely doable. Would you only get a role from the games you were in or could you get anyones role?
  
• So you mean anyone lynched in the game could be a role? Eh, not neccessary. Depends on how many pr's and stuff you use. For a normal setup there'll be plenty of vanilla roles + you can assign scum a "safe" vanilla game or 3 in case of massclaim to stop something like that breaking it?

[Cheery Dog]

What should I do with night start games?
Should all lynches from games with multiple lynches on day 1 be counted (ie double day unlimited/otherworld mafia)?
Do Day-1 day kills effect anything? (same as night starts)
With hidden role details (ie medical mafia), should they still have those limitations or be told what they are (since they would be able to research it themselves) or just not count these games?
Should a role that came from a setup with different mechanics still use those mechanics?
What happens if I draw one Mason/Lover? (current thoughts are the same as it happened in great idea mafia)
How do I deal with back-ups?
Should I stop data collecting and just use whatever games where the people that sign up have been lynched Day 1? (Placing entry restrictions)
Would it then be better to open up for any lynch for better balance options?

• A Day 1 lynch is a day 1 lynch. Count Night start.
  
• If you're only counting the first lynchee ignore daykills. I mean you can include day 1 daykills if you want but meh.
  
• Eh, shoehorning in like the mechanics of a role in AGM's defcon would just be weird. It'd also confirm the player as either alignment dependant on the mechanic? It's also just messy.
  
• If you're giving them a game link then they can find this out themselves, right?
  
• Use the same thing as great idea, yeah.
  
• Well what's the problem? You can have a back up cop without a cop, anyway. So does it matter? Universal backups are fine, anyway.
  
• That could work, but would require effort at the time. it's definitely doable. Would you only get a role from the games you were in or could you get anyones role?
  
• So you mean anyone lynched in the game could be a role? Eh, not neccessary. Depends on how many pr's and stuff you use. For a normal setup there'll be plenty of vanilla roles + you can assign scum a "safe" vanilla game or 3 in case of massclaim to stop something like that breaking it?

• That sounds fine with me, I'll probably actually just change all games to first lynch so it including games that also feature no lynch. (probably still skip otherworld unless I take both of them)
  
• No instant lose godfathers from Vengeful then. But it is mostly if I'm calling the townies in vengeful as vengefuls or not. And no lynching town was my other problem with game mechanics effecting what roles do. (and probably masons and mafia if any mafias end up being the first lynch)
  
• I think I;ll stay true to what the role was, if I'm not told (in at least on Diffusion of power game, I'll give a new random number for it). Depends how I actually word the pms.
  
• Helps if I look at the wikipage to find out what they generally do when faced with no primary power. Multiple primary powers should they happen would I guess work like a univarsal.
  
• It would only be roles they'd been lynched as (meaning the entry requirements would be having been lynched as both alignments in the past - the second option of any lynch is because restricting to day 1 only would mean a lot more players would fail to meet it) I probably won't go for that option since I wouldn't be allowed to enter my own game having not been lynched as scum yet.

Though after I've collected all the data from games that have finished while I've been a member, I think the mafia lynchrate may actually be a bit high. (rounding has obviously been done)
41% VT
31% Scum
25% Town PRs (including townies from vengefuls)
2% Other.

[Bitmap]

Anyone interested in a Hacker-esque mafia game?

Explain more? I mean probably there's interest, but a risk with that stuff is the 'it doesn't work like you think in the movies' argument you might get.

I'm still building on it atm but it goes like this.

The scum team is based on security exploits. The town PRs will be based off tools to counteract these security exploits. Each player is linked to an IP address and/or a port. Night targets are based on the IPs and not names.

My main concern is getting a reviewer and balance.