The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!

[Cerulean]

Kise - His breadcrumbs were funny. However, his play was a lot different from here regardless of his midgame slump in HP. His engagement in the game was way better. As was yours.

This is mostly a prod dodge. Empire and I are both really busy right now and are discussing things when we get a chance.

I don't like that Camn is ignoring the read that empire gave on DV or just blowing it to the side and not commenting on my criticism. I'm getting paranoid of a camn/kise or camn/benmage partnership that is lining up either a mislynch of jason (in the case of camn/benmage) or of benmage (in the case of camn/kise) and then lining up the mislynch of dv or whoever is left tomorrow.

[The Baltimore Sun]

Day 5, Votecount 11

JasonT1981 (2) - camn, Benmage

Benmage (1) - Shaft

Not voting (4) :

Cerulean, JasonT1981, Deasvail, kuribo

• With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 9th of April at 11:59am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-04-09 19:59:28)
  

[DeasVail]

Sort of prod dodge and really bad apology.

I think I might be lazy, skip the reread, and vote Jason.

But I also might not, so I'll get back to you later.

[Shaft]

I obviously can't excuse jason but I replaced in with about 20 or so pages. I was in the process of moving back into my old apartment and came online via phone until my laptop arrived. With my attention span being the way it is, I couldn't get into the game of people speculating and throwing accusations around. I mean, as you see, all the spec/accusations got is the mafia traitor. It happens in copless games, but for me my attention span just isn't so great for catching up and having to follow people's beliefs.

And I could talk more shit in HP due to being caught up andnot having to worry about repeating something someone else said.

Deadline is in 2 days. I await a reply from Ben so I probably won't speak unless spoken to.

[Shaft]

Right now. Camn/Ben/Kuribo are the 3 I could easily go for. There is at least 1 scum in that group.

That's just about the order I would lynch but I would switch kuribo with DV depending on what powers the others had. If there's 3 more scum, I think a bodyguard is neat against a vig, but a neighborizer would be more suitable if Ben and camn were crucial enough counters to the rest of town's PRs.

[Shaft]

Woops. Thought you had Ben before camn. Carry on.

[Benmage]

Ill try to catchup tonight.

[camn]

I don't like that Camn is ignoring the read that empire gave on DV or just blowing it to the side and not commenting on my criticism.

Oops, I missed that post. I dont have much to add.. but I will try and rephrase.

Playing anti-scum is confusing no matter what color you get. I was confused when I saw red- and thought I was scum. To the point that the mod had to actually correct me.
If I had gotten blue, and

partners

I could have been equally confused.
So saying "He was confused, he's obvtown"- to me THAT is "weak sauce". But you disagree, so fine.

AS far as claiming- TRUE CLAIMS ARE THE BEST. Why? because they are true. Thats why people claim them. The best scum claim is a true claim, and so I dont think it is out of line for DV to have decided on the true-claim path early on.. and then been committed.
Again- to me, using that as a TOWNtell is pretty full of wifom, and not reliable. But whatever. The fact that it is kind of

just me

thinking the claim is MUST-SCUM shows that it wasn't actually a BAD decision on his part.
Do you get that? DV is still alive.
Thus, his claim is NOT something that is obv obv ovb scum to everyone- or he would be dead.
So logically, you cant sit there and say, "its TOO ObvScum! No way would scum do it! Thus he's town!" Because if it WAS so obv- he would be dead.
That is WIFOM logic by definition.

in re: ben- please see post 3030. Shaft being alive doesn't make sense to me with ben-scum. At least to the point that it elevates DV and Jason above him in likelihood.

[jasonT1981]

Ben has been a long term scum read of mine, with 2 days to go I need to vote... since I am the only other wagon and I won't vote myself.

vote: Benmage

I would be open for a Kise or Kuribo lynch today... but would there be any support this late in the day for either?

[kuribo]

i'd be open to a me lynch if you're not lynched because fuck you and fuck trying to play with you tomorrow

[Cerulean]

I don't like that Camn is ignoring the read that empire gave on DV or just blowing it to the side and not commenting on my criticism.

Oops, I missed that post. I dont have much to add.. but I will try and rephrase.

Playing anti-scum is confusing no matter what color you get. I was confused when I saw red- and thought I was scum. To the point that the mod had to actually correct me.
If I had gotten blue, and

partners

I could have been equally confused.
So saying "He was confused, he's obvtown"- to me THAT is "weak sauce". But you disagree, so fine.

AS far as claiming- TRUE CLAIMS ARE THE BEST. Why? because they are true. Thats why people claim them. The best scum claim is a true claim, and so I dont think it is out of line for DV to have decided on the true-claim path early on.. and then been committed.
Again- to me, using that as a TOWNtell is pretty full of wifom, and not reliable. But whatever. The fact that it is kind of

just me

thinking the claim is MUST-SCUM shows that it wasn't actually a BAD decision on his part.
Do you get that? DV is still alive.
Thus, his claim is NOT something that is obv obv ovb scum to everyone- or he would be dead.
So logically, you cant sit there and say, "its TOO ObvScum! No way would scum do it! Thus he's town!" Because if it WAS so obv- he would be dead.
That is WIFOM logic by definition.

Um way to go ahead and completely oversimplify the read. There were quite a few things in that reads post beyond the claim information for why we think he's town, but I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.

I don't see why you would be confused if you got a pm that said, you're partners are x,y, and z, and you can talk to them in this qt and submit a night kill. How in the hell would that confuse anyone no matter the color? Blue is a color used for mafia. Are you with me? Do you get that?

I can understand the getting confused with the red one as I've already said that I complained to Faraday about drawing scum and was corrected myself.

But, we didn't go, "oh he said he was confused, obvtown shew we don't have to read him anymore!" If you will note I was one of the ones who thought ActionDan was trying to fake a towntell by commenting on that. That is just one of many reasons we think he's town.

Also the claim thing is pretty dumb. He could have just claimed bodyguard. You are coming up with a hypothetical scenario to fit your predetermined notion instead of looking at what's likely instead of looking at the whole picture. Case in point, these are two points in a wall post about why we think he's town. He could have claimed vanilla, and we'd still think he's town; these points about the claim are additionals. We think he's town by play. All you're doing is going here's this thing about his claim "caught scum!" And that's pretty weak on your part if you're town.

[Cerulean]

Gods this game is driving me insane. I just read through Jason. I think he might be town.

[kuribo]

Gods this game is driving me insane. I just read through Jason. I think he might be town.

that's what I've been saying in the QT

The wagon on him seems like it's just waiting for deadline to come along and everyone's just gonna lazypark their vote on him until the neighborhood swoops in for the hammer

[Cerulean]

Gods this game is driving me insane. I just read through Jason. I think he might be town.

that's what I've been saying in the QT

The wagon on him seems like it's just waiting for deadline to come along and everyone's just gonna lazypark their vote on him until the neighborhood swoops in for the hammer

Yeah I know and then I just ran through his iso in HP and he was definitely more engaged. Idk. I have a headache though, I'll get back to this tomorrow.

It would be super nice if Ben and dv said something though.

[camn]

I just read through Jason. I think he might be town.

I would totally be for a DV wagon, though obv you are against it.
As noted, I think Ben is less likely scum than Jason, but I would go for him at deadline.
I am against you, Shaft or kuribo. and obviously I am against my own lynch

I agree the Jason wagon sucks, energy wise.. but it would be a pretty easy wagon for scum to push though if it were a mislynch, no?

PS-
I think you are just WIFOM-ing yourself out of DV.
Whenever the argument is - Action X is too scummy to be scum - it is flawed, unless the player has a proven track record of perfect, optimal scumplay at all times.
In which case they should be lynched D1 every time

[DeasVail]

I'm town.

I'm sorry, things are getting busy for me, and the Monday-Tuesday period is always the worst of the week. I will have much more time in 24 hours, but I know that my contribution hasn't been very good at all recently

[Cerulean]

Ps - that is not the argument. We think he is town by play camn. The claim stuff is additional to that.

Thank you once again for super oversimplifying something and not reading everything.

[Cerulean]

Oh and if it's not Jason, who is dv's partner by the way?

[Cerulean]

Pps - I kind of actually hope you are scum camn because that would actually make some of your play this game make a whole heap more sense.

[Cerulean]

Never mind the who partner is question. Just read the othe part. Just woke up.

[The Baltimore Sun]

Day 5, Votecount 12

JasonT1981 (2) - camn, Benmage
Benmage (2) - Shaft, JasonT1981

Not voting (4) :

Cerulean, Deasvail, kuribo

• With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 9th of April at 11:59am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-04-09 19:59:28)
  

Just over 1 day till deadline.

[camn]

Thank you once again for super oversimplifying something and not reading everything.

Your face is simple.

[camn]

Oh, and re: the "play" argument.. not to simplify- but it is all meta-speculation.
Which is fine. But just an opinion, and one in light of DV actually discussing his own meta.
Which is why meta defenses are no defenses at all.

[kuribo]

Oh, and re: the "play" argument.. not to simplify- but it is all meta-speculation.
Which is fine. But just an opinion, and one in light of DV actually discussing his own meta.
Which is why meta defenses are no defenses at all.

My town read on him comes from having been scum with him at one time (and winning)

[camn]

Ok. You have meta on him.
That doesn't, shouldn't and CAN'T affect my read in any way, and we dont even need to argue about it!
Anyone would be a fool to say- Oh! You have Meta! Yay!

Me, I try to look at motivation IN game. That being, scum motivation and town motivation. Meta might work sometimes, but I have never had consistent results with it. However.. scum motivation? That always holds.
IN RE: DV:
He planned his claim.

Spoiler:

Plessiez, why would I need to make this role up as scum? I think my hints at knowing scum have daytalk indicate that I planned to claim it all along, which is just weird on Day 1 or 2 or whatever it was.

Why? Because it gives him a great reason to avoid the nightkill.
This could be either town or scum motivated. As scum, as a great EXCUSE .. or as town as a strategic reason
Of course, he hints that his role hinted to him that there was a town daytalk.. or from his perspective, more than one faction of daytalk. Which means he knew it would discourage THEM from killing him too.

Spoiler:

And yes, with me being alive, anyone that can talk in a QT can do so at all times.

All this, to ME, shows survivalist motivation in re: the CLAIM. Not PURE scum.. but >NOT< total town.
Coupled with the total LACK of any flavor justification at all tells me this: TRUE roleclaim, FALSE characterclaim = likely scum.
Me, If I were TOWN.. I probably would have claimed daytalkenabler in the neighborhood QT, and NOT claimed in the open. Furthermore, I would have softclaimed hard power early, trying to draw the nightkill and end the scum ability to actually daytalk. But DV laid it out in such a way that he could claim power and have an ongoing excuse for not dying.
(Of course, since scum aren't even picking off PRs yet.. the strategy isn't paying off, IMO.)

HOWEVER.. I think Jason is more likely scum than DV. And I could probably come around to Ben again. He is only third on my list because of the Pless kill.