Micro 158: borkgame (Game Over)

[Selkies]

It was the way you had looked at the entire list of peeps that have posted so and are trying to put them into the town and scum piles already, kinda reminds me though you did it a lot quicker than I did, usually takes me quite a while to figure out my reads when I am town.

Wait so how does this make sense

Giving reads too quick: Isn't that scummy since it demonstrates that you aren't actually worried about the reads' accuracy? Why is being able to give reads quicker than you town-indicative?

[Does Bo Know]

Um.

Selkies, that might've been Icebox's

case on RachMarie

. Not his

reads on us three players

.

PEdit: And she finds me town because I'm grouping people into town and scum piles...why does that make me town again?

PEdit2: Selkies ninja'd me grrr. Even though I disagree that giving reads quickly is a scum tell. It's mainly null, IMO. Scum might not want to give quick reads because it might put them under heavy questioning they don't want for reads they don't expect to explain the first time.

[RachMarie]

Which Sven vote?

yeah for now I kinda see him as leaning town the level of emotion about having just one vote on him though seems a bit off, I need to read some of his games though to see if that is a playstyle thing or not.

That part was admiration if he is town, I never can come up with reads that fact, which I guess is part of the reason I come off looking scummy to peeps.

[Selkies]

Oh my god I hate how read doesn't have a past tense.

Ok, I misconstrued that post.

[Selkies]

That part was admiration if he is town, I never can come up with reads that fact, which I guess is part of the reason I come off looking scummy to peeps.

...

So why is Bo town, if that part was admiration based on the assumption that Bo is town?

[Does Bo Know]

Also, I'm liking this game's activity so far. Much better than the other Micro's I'm in, already 6 pages deep and it's only been like 6 hours.

I'm going to bed soon then school tomorrow, any other big questions you need to ask me between now and...lunch time tomorrow?

PEdit: Was going to question Rach about her 127, but Selkies beat me to it. So I want to know that too.

[RachMarie]

uggh I did it again....

the last sentence was to selikes about her question on Bo It is not just the fact you are grouping them, it is the level of transparency in your post Scum generally post reads based on what everyone else thinks is a good lynch or to bus a partner or buddy a partner or WK someone they know for sure is Town but likely to be lynched, stuffs like that. That post did not feel like any of that, instead it felt genuine and based on what you feel at this time. I grant that most of the reads may change over time due to future posting that further clarifies, and that they are mostly gut at this point, since not much content yet, but still it feels like a town post of reads not a scum post of reads.

[Selkies]

PEdit2: Selkies ninja'd me grrr. Even though I disagree that giving reads quickly is a scum tell. It's mainly null, IMO. Scum might not want to give quick reads because it might put them under heavy questioning they don't want for reads they don't expect to explain the first time.

Given that I mislynched my hydra buddy based on too quick a read on me, maybe.

I still think it's suspicious if you don't have meta knowledge. Some people can tell the alignment of a person they've played with a lot from one or two posts, so that's okay I guess. But when people give strong non-RVS reads based on very few evidence, it makes me suspicious because it doesn't seem based on town-motivation of finding scum and more like giving reads just to fly under the radar.

This is a fairly pointless discussion though.

[Icebox]

Also, I'm liking this game's activity so far. Much better than the other Micro's I'm in, already 6 pages deep and it's only been like 6 hours.

I'm going to bed soon then school tomorrow,

any other big questions

you need to ask me between now and...lunch time tomorrow?

PEdit: Was going to question Rach about her 127, but Selkies beat me to it. So I want to know that too.

Only question that matters: Are you scum?

[Does Bo Know]

@Rach: Ah, okay, makes a little more sense after rereading 122.

@Selkies: It is a fairly pointless discussion. I just wanted to discuss things because I feel bad for missing out for 5 pages when I could've just been here.

PEdit: @Icebox: I'm not scum.

[Icebox]

Lol, okay. Enjoy your lunch and see you then. Maybe.

[Selkies]

Also, I'm liking this game's activity so far. Much better than the other Micro's I'm in, already 6 pages deep and it's only been like 6 hours.

I'm going to bed soon then school tomorrow, any other big questions you need to ask me between now and...lunch time tomorrow?

PEdit: Was going to question Rach about her 127, but Selkies beat me to it. So I want to know that too.

Yeah, for some reason whenever fery and I are in a game, it turns out to be really active.

uggh I did it again....

the last sentence was to selikes about her question on Bo It is not just the fact you are grouping them, it is the level of transparency in your post Scum generally post reads based on what everyone else thinks is a good lynch or to bus a partner or buddy a partner or WK someone they know for sure is Town but likely to be lynched, stuffs like that. That post did not feel like any of that, instead it felt genuine and based on what you feel at this time. I grant that most of the reads may change over time due to future posting that further clarifies, and that they are mostly gut at this point, since not much content yet, but still it feels like a town post of reads not a scum post of reads.

How strong exactly is your town read? Comparatively.

[Selkies]

Only question that matters: Are you scum?

I know this is a joke but did you really not find other things in Bo's post to ask him about?

[Does Bo Know]

Yeah I'm going to sleep, if you guys had questions for me tonight, you can still ask and I'll respond tomorrow.

Hopefully I can keep up with the activity of this game. I missed a lot of it tonight because I was at the Colin and Brad Show when the game started.

[RachMarie]

umm lunch? I thought he said he was going to bed LOL What time zone you in ?


PEDIT

Not really strong I really dont have strong reads yet on anyone. Im kinda slow in that dept.

[Selkies]

I sort of want to excuse Rach for her sideline sitting for meta. I kind of want to look at your scumgames now--can you give me your five most recent ones?

[Selkies]

#83: Icebox pulls Varsoonscum out of thin air, even though he's posted after that fact.

But

, apparently can't see Varsoon's other posts noting how not-serious the entire RVS business was. Hm...maybe keeping a closer eye on this. Might not mean much, but as scum, I can argue with my scumbuddy while there's a bigger picture happening, make a lot of noise, and quiet it back down.

This is good. Let’s ISO Icebox and see what we find.

Icebox is GiF and Rememberance (

Rem is the goofy one, but he is funny and entertaining

)..

Selkies you are Orc and ?

VOTE: Rachmarie Blatant, buddying. Sheep me.

If this is a serious reason, it really sucks. It’s not buddying; it’s just pointing out that somebody is enjoyable to play with. If this is a RVS vote, I’m not seeing what it’s achieving.

How is telling the truth buddying? I think I mentioned in the Newbie game we were in together that I really liked your style and thought you were funny and very entertaining to read?

Hey I can be funny too.

Scum 1: yo dawg how did u escape the town tunnel
Scum 2: dat B eazie bro. I just AtE my way out!

...ok it was terrible.

I also don’t like how Icebox effectively dodged Rach’s question here. It looks a bit like scum trying to end a conversation.

Svenskt is all making these absolute statements and stuff.
That's kinda super scum, right?

>"Hey he's doing something scummy, right?"
>No vote

VOTE: Varsoon

Explain those "absolute statements" please.

So first off, no mention whatsoever of the Rach wagon at L-1. At all. It’s a mine of information, much more than anything we’ve had so far, you have two people, and you failed to comment on it? Really?
Let’s examine who Icebox votes for instead. Varsoon, who just entered the thread. Icebox votes Varsoon for a legit reason, and at this point in time I’m thinking Vars is scum too for that dodge in 52 (I’ll explain a Vars case later—is he normally this snarky?).
But I still don’t like how both heads are ignoring the main discussion right now, and just looks like circling the bandwagon (where RM is concerned). And I think Icebox should know what these absolute statements are, and that this last question was fluff.

Why would you not put your vote on a person who you think is scummy?
Also I would prefer hearing you explain with your own words rather than going back and read. What do you mean by "absolute statements?"

@P-Edit: Sven wat

The first question is decent, but not the rest of this post. Okay so now we have a blatant refusal to read the thread of the game you’re playing in…after allegedly doing a meta case on Fery and I? This doesn’t seem real to me. And why exactly would you want someone to explain “absolute statements”—what are you hoping to get out of Varsoon? We all know what he’s going to answer, it won’t be alignment indicative. Bad question to mask as scumhunting. And I feel like even this jump on Varsoon seems like trying to find an easy target to avoid the whole Rach business. What would you have done if Varsoon replied to your pressure by voting Sven?

@Rach: Varsoon doesn't do RVS. I was with him last game and he didn't do it. (He was town.)

Sure.

It's night time and it's time to sneak my vote off while GIF isn't looking.

VOTE: RachMarie

Read Sven as town for unvoting her.
Then read Bo as town for defending her slot and voting Sven.

@Bo thoughts?

Okay, why did you avoid talk about the L-1 wagon if you thought Rach was scummy? This is also a pretty weak case to make on Rach, compared to everything that has been said. Not necessarily scummy though.

Also, I'm liking this game's activity so far. Much better than the other Micro's I'm in, already 6 pages deep and it's only been like 6 hours.

I'm going to bed soon then school tomorrow,

any other big questions

you need to ask me between now and...lunch time tomorrow?

PEdit: Was going to question Rach about her 127, but Selkies beat me to it. So I want to know that too.

Only question that matters: Are you scum?

So much fluff.

VOTE: Icebox

[RachMarie]

ask and ye shall receive.....

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24944 Newbie 1320


My first post is 986 in this one I replaced into my bfs newbie game and was scum buds with Rob 13 and I totally screwed up with the vote count and hammered the IC without doing intent to hammer which is NOT like me in either alignment, I am a big one for hammer protocol.

Bonus there is a town Rem in this one (half of the Icebox hydra).



http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24980 Newbie 1318

The one and only time I was scum as IC. My scum bud flaked and the replacement and I did not get a chance to talk til the first night lol.



http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=23387 Micro 28 Kingmaker game

I was executed first day, and my scum buds managed to win anyways.



http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=23206 Micro 22 Less Pressure (another bf modded game lol)

I managed to squeak by in this game but after both my team mates were hammered I lost of course....


http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22995 Open 439 Less Pressure (I think this was my best scum moment lol.) I replaced in LYLO and help lynch a townie so our team could win the game.... Siv was a big help with our win here...

[Selkies]

Varsoon's posts are pretty bad too.

RVS voting is for losers.

Sorry, Selkies, really worn out and stuff.
I literally just got on the gloss what's going on and confirm that I'm in the game and stuff.

That said, seems like typical RVS lameness.

And Varsson ansers while I am typing ok.

Sorry, I wish I was capable of knowing when you were typing.

I actually didn't realize there was a second page so I was replying to the hydra discussion on the first one.

There's no such thing as RVS. Users invent it. I don't know. It's too complicated for me to parse out right now.

Okay so we get it that Varsoon doesn't like RVS. Just out of curiosity, how would you start a game? Because you've been blessed with information by people who have started RVS, and we actually weren't in RVS at the time of your posts. Why are you avoiding all of the information going on--do you honestly think htere's nothing in the first 2 pages worth commenting on? Not even Sven's outburst?

Svenskt is all making these absolute statements and stuff.
That's kinda super scum, right?

>"Hey he's doing something scummy, right?"
>No vote

VOTE: Varsoon

Explain those "absolute statements" please.

Don't need to put votes on people right now. Don't need to put a vote on a person if you think they're scummy.
Try reading.

Well actually you sort of do.

Svenskt is all making these absolute statements and stuff.
That's kinda super scum, right?

Here's the offending post. This to me is weird like hell--first off, if RVS is so useless and you think everything so far has been boring RVS, how did you come up with this alignment-indicative information? Why are absolute statements inherently scummy? And if you're calling someone super-scum, I'd imagine you'd also put down a vote to pressure them or at least drive conversation in some way. Where's the vote?

And are you normally this snarky in games?

I think there's at least one scum between Varsoon and Icebox.

[Selkies]

Orcinus asked me to post my reasons for thinking Svenskt could be town. What follows is a lot of meta.

I read his first scum game at MS a few weeks ago. I was mining meta on another player in the game, but noticed his play as well. It was similar to his town game (I knew he was town in the game I was researching for becasuse we were one of 4 pairs of town lovers). In his scum game, he was playing similarly as far as tone was concerned, but not trying to lead town in a particular direction. He has a sort of stock answer to someone initially FoSing or voting him: humor, and often a "Come at me" gif,

Here's the scum game http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25910

I went back this game to look at how he handled RVS and realized that I hadn't remember he subbed into the game and had missed RVS. He has no RVS meta from completed games. So, I'm having to put this into the context of his overall play in two completed games, one of which I knew from the start that his slot was town. So, my meta is a little more shaky than I realized last night. The combined play of Selkie is very different from what I'd be doing on my own here. And I know first hand how I've reacted to Orcinus' RVS buzzsaw approach: whoa...self - stay calm, step back, no quick movements.

A totally pissed off reaction to orcinus style RVS, especially if Svenskt was expecting Selkie to mostly behave like me, does not seem odd to me.

But, the suspicions that other people have expressed resonates a little. ATM I'm unsure just barely and very cautiously leaning town re Svenskt.

-f

[Selkies]

Sure Fery, I see where you're coming from.

I´ll consider cooling down when you unvote the only person that has been townie so far. Look at her question about trying to understand your reasoning. Icebox has been only fluff and is a much better vote.

Vote ICEBOX

Actually I retract my town read on rachmarie, selkies is a town lean thou.

VOTE RACHMARIE

Can you explain what happened between these two posts, given that Icebox didn't actually post between them?

Also rach if you have the time, can you go over how you approach the game in each alignment?

Do you often ask people for self-meta? Because it's literally ass.

Because as scum you would be peeing your pants.

Yeah, as Fery pointed out earlier,

Because as scum you would be peeing your pants.

That's not what you said about my scum game before.

Where are you getting the idea that we would fear you, if you were town and we were scum? Because I'm certainly not getting that idea.

And 101.

Also: If fery and I are in disagreement over a read, we'll post it in thread. If we don't, you can reasonably assume that we're in unison.

[Icebox]

Ok. This is what is happening.

Rem thinks Rach is scummy based on her meta and stuff. Me, not so much convinced.

I have played a game with Varsoon before, and the way I'm doing (at least, was doing, thanks to Rem) is the best way to read Varsoon for me, since his thought process is pretty easy to follow. While talking with Varsoon this way, I can see his motive behind his posts easily. Hence my push there. Also about not knowing "absolute statement" is: I'm serious on this one. English is not my native language and sometimes I have hard time understanding some of the words/concept/etc.

Also those "fluffs," well that's Rem for you.

So while Rem is not here, let me continue to do my stuff.
VOTE: Varsoon

Also about those push on Rach, I'll let Rem explain those.

-G

[Icebox]

Also, about Rach L-1 stuff, we're currently discussing about Majiffy's lolL-1 vote. We'll let you know when we reach the consensus.

[Disturbed_One]

VOTE: RachMarie

[Icebox]

Hello D_O. You know that vote puts Rach to L-1, right?