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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:14 pm

Post by JasonWazza »

Voidedmafia wrote:
And yes, I'm aware. You're still avoiding my request.

(off-topic: WTF is up with everyone copying UberNinja's background?)


There is no use to me as town to tell you how to think, because you sheeping me doesn't help me.

(http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=27121)
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:10 pm

Post by Voidedmafia »

JasonWazza wrote:There is no use to me as town to tell you how to think, because you sheeping me doesn't help me.

That's not what I'm asking, though I'll let the sheeping part pass.

I don't have the time tonight, so I'll look things over either between classes or after college tomorrow/today.
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:31 am

Post by 4nxi3ty »

Not voting - Voidedmafia, JasonWazza, Varsoon

Deadline: (expired on 2013-04-14 09:20:22)
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:50 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

JasonWazza wrote:There is no use to me as town to tell you how to think, because you sheeping me doesn't help me.

Actuallly, what makes you think I will? As far as I can tell Varsoon has evenly replied to most of your sarcastic responses without getting angry or sarcastic back, and has apologized when he's wrong. This part of things doesn't read as him being cautious, just him responding well.

Furthermore, I still don't see what's so bad about spilling your beans.

voided: "So...what's up with the biting stuff?
Wazza: "It's for reactions, dude. I got a good amount already."
Voided: "That's nice. Care to share for the rest of the class?"
Wazza: "Why? Are you gonna steal them?"
Voided: "Of course not. But if you're going to say you've got reactions (and presumably reads off said reactions), why not say them?"
Wazza: "Still think you're gonna steal them."

I'm aware that you are probably correct in being cautious of sheepers, but that's still not a good reason to hold back on things like this. Even if what you've gotten from your reactions isn't going to change your overall reads on both of us.
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:50 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

(The dialogue is basically how I see our little exchange about it went.)
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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:08 am

Post by JasonWazza »

How did our conversation turn into a school?

Still the reason not to give out reads is simple.

a) disadvantage scum, because if they don't know they view you as scummy then they could likely vote the other guy and you vote them when the votes get crossed.
b) town shouldn't be sheeping or really even looking at other people's reason's cause 1/2 chance they come from scum.
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:09 am

Post by 4nxi3ty »

prodding Varsoon
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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:19 pm

Post by Varsoon »

4nxi3ty wrote:
prodding Varsoon

Sorry, hadn't seen these posts since my last log in and now. I guess we'd all been inactive for awhile, and I was at a bit of a loss of where to go, especially on my own. It feels like we're all walking on eggshells.


JasonWazza wrote:How did our conversation turn into a school?

Still the reason not to give out reads is simple.

a) disadvantage scum, because if they don't know they view you as scummy then they could likely vote the other guy and you vote them when the votes get crossed.
b) town shouldn't be sheeping or really even looking at other people's reason's cause 1/2 chance they come from scum.


I agree with this. If you reaction tested and got reactions, revealing how you feel about them actually serves fairly well for more reaction testing, I find. It's always best to be as transparent as possible.
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:20 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Erp, I mean, I agree with Voided and disagree with the idea that your shouldn't give out reads.
Reads are good.
They generate content.
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:04 pm

Post by Varsoon »

I know Voided is on LA during the weekdays, but can you respond to my posts, Jason?
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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:07 pm

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Sorry my bad just doing mod stuff then coming here i promise
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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:13 pm

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I'm gonna give in on the reads now, reaction testing is always fun :P

Varsoon: Cautious as fuck, so cautious that it bothers me like he has something to be cautious about, town should be more willing to do stupid things and just get the game moving from them stupid things, I'm still a bit iffy with him, but i have a slight town lean on him.

Voided: Got into a real twist over me not giving out my reads, like they matter so damn much, this makes me feel scum here, cause even though they matter they don't matter to the point that you need them in here (especially when my posts kinda give my reads anyway), my thought here is scum because scum NEEDS to know the reads so they know who is gonna be better to gamble on for trying to lynch.

I'm pretty confident voided is scum, but i think i will let response come to this before i do anything else.
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:17 pm

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JasonWazza wrote:I'm gonna give in on the reads now, reaction testing is always fun :P

Varsoon: Cautious as fuck, so cautious that it bothers me like he has something to be cautious about, town should be more willing to do stupid things and just get the game moving from them stupid things, I'm still a bit iffy with him, but i have a slight town lean on him.

Voided: Got into a real twist over me not giving out my reads, like they matter so damn much, this makes me feel scum here, cause even though they matter they don't matter to the point that you need them in here (especially when my posts kinda give my reads anyway), my thought here is scum because scum NEEDS to know the reads so they know who is gonna be better to gamble on for trying to lynch.

I'm pretty confident voided is scum, but i think i will let response come to this before i do anything else.


Your response moves you a little more town in my book, but I'm still iffy on it. Better safe than sorry.
It's really up to Voided to post before I can really work through all the posts so far, his response to this, etc, and have good faith in who is scum or town.
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:19 pm

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Were you deliberately trying to copy my iffy line? :P
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:24 pm

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JasonWazza wrote:Were you deliberately trying to copy my iffy line? :P

Oh wow, that's uncanny, hahahaa.
No, not intended, but it's pretty funny now that I look at it.

Right now, I have you leaning scum, but the ultimate call on that'll depend on how Voided reacts.
Your post strikes me as either skeptical town or wagon-hungry scum.
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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:25 pm

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Varsoon wrote:wagon-hungry scum.


Yeah cause 2 days till deadline and i'm not gonna want to start pushing for a 1v1 soon?
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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:28 pm

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JasonWazza wrote:
Varsoon wrote:wagon-hungry scum.


Yeah cause 2 days till deadline and i'm not gonna want to start pushing for a 1v1 soon?


It is pretty close and with Voided's LA status, it looks like we'll be pushed to the edge of this day.
I think your post does a really good job of locking us into a final gambit where one of us is going to be decided on as the scummiest.
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Post Post #67 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:31 pm

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I've also got some extra reads based off of it and how you've played, but I'll save them for now. I want to see how Voided responds to what's right here, and, rather than give possible scum more material to work with, I'll stick with what I've written so far.
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Post Post #68 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:34 pm

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We need to lock shit in soon and i am pretty sure i will be locking heads with voided.

Varsoon wrote:I've also got some extra reads based off of it and how you've played, but I'll save them for now. I want to see how Voided responds to what's right here, and, rather than give possible scum more material to work with, I'll stick with what I've written so far.


Watch out you may get told off for holding back reads :lol:
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Post Post #69 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:39 pm

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JasonWazza wrote:We need to lock shit in soon and i am pretty sure i will be locking heads with voided.

Varsoon wrote:I've also got some extra reads based off of it and how you've played, but I'll save them for now. I want to see how Voided responds to what's right here, and, rather than give possible scum more material to work with, I'll stick with what I've written so far.


Watch out you may get told off for holding back reads :lol:


Fair enough. If Voided enters game and says that he wants them and you'd like me to give them before he responds to you, I'll do it. Otherwise, I'd like to keep to myself as it'd be likely to heavily alter the flow of the game.
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Post Post #70 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:41 pm

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i'm meh, hold reads if you want i won't go make a big deal about it
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Post Post #71 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:26 pm

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JasonWazza wrote:Got into a real twist over me not giving out my reads, like they matter so damn much, this makes me feel scum here, cause even though they matter they don't matter to the point that you need them in here (especially when my posts kinda give my reads anyway), my thought here is scum because scum NEEDS to know the reads so they know who is gonna be better to gamble on for trying to lynch.

I won't deny this assumption could be true from your PoV, however, isn't it also true that having clear-cut reads that people can see is better than reads that can be implied from your postings?

If you're town and don't set your reads out for us to see it leaves the rest of the town (or the other townie, in this game) potentially confused by where you really stand (and IMO that confusion is not worth the potential of doing it to scum as well) and depending on how good or bad you set your implications they can get the wrong message, either through misinterpretation or through finding a link that you may not have intended to make, or a couple other things.

If you're scum then yeah, it serves to keep town confused as to what exactly you think, and I suppose that depending on who we're talking about you could get away with it, but even as scum it doesn't seem like a good risk to me.

Overall, it just doesn't seem like a very pro-town motive to do what you're saying, and more pro-town to do what I suggested.

Also, having something tangible out there behind your suspicions that people can see (and/or respond to, if necessary) helps, too.

JasonWazza wrote:I'm gonna give in on the reads now, reaction testing is always fun

implying you're doing more reactiontests?

REACTIONCEPTION!*coughcough*


Varsoon wrote:I've also got some extra reads based off of it and how you've played, but I'll save them for now. I want to see how Voided responds to what's right here, and, rather than give possible scum more material to work with, I'll stick with what I've written so far.

Well, now that I'm here, I demand to see those reads! :P

Though, I'm honestly curious to see what you have to say.

JasonWazza wrote:We need to lock shit in soon and i am pretty sure i will be locking heads with voided.

If you insist.

(PS, Varsoon, if you're scum waiting to see one of us cross-vote, I'll haunt you in the QT, got it? So wait warmly.)

As of now, Jason is scummier than Varsoon due to what I've stated in this post. I also still stand by what I said earlier, that is biting responses didn't seem to be something of help.
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Post Post #72 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:01 pm

Post by Varsoon »

You kinda made the meat of your post already, so I have no qualms coming out with what I was holding back earlier.

First things first.
I mentioned holding something back to see how safely you'd post. If you were scum, me saying that I had sensitive information/reads/insight would be something you'd definitely play to, in some way.
From this, I'm reading you as town. Why?
You made the most town play by bringing up that I might be scum waiting for a cross-vote. Perceptive town would be able to notice this, and speak to the possibility of it. By setting up a post with "I won't say anything specific but I've got something important to say once the other play comes in", I'm basically asking for this sort of analysis to be made, somehow. Scum might also point this out, but they'd put it against me. Jason immediately spoke to it in two posts, but what unsettled me is that it seemed like he was setting up for you to say something bigger about it when he said I might be called out. It was like a nudge to see how you'd react, and I don't know if that was either a slip on his part or an intentional test of sorts. Anyway, I made sure to leave just enough in my posts for scum to make a groundless case against me, hoping that you'd be scum and I'd catch you in my trap, but you responded in a very town way (calling attention to it without antagonism). I hope this makes sense, haha, it's a bit convoluted on the screen.

Anyway, there was actually info that I was holding onto, and even hinted at earlier, and it's that I was reading Jason as scummier than you, but that the ultimate swing depended on your vote to prove if you were lurking, buying time, etc. You could have easily made your post at the last minute and forced town into a game of wits with only a few hours on the clock, but you didn't. You did the most town thing possible by posting as early as you did. Furthermore, your reactions were solidly town to me. You pointed out a line that felt wrong to me since I read it--the one Jason made in post 68. While Jason seemed like impatient town to me for a long time, him specifically calling you out as the person he'd lock heads with while building up antagonism towards you (the player not present to defend himself at the time) all seemed like scum manipulating town towards a mislynch. Your point about his suspicions not being tangible is another big one that I wanted to make if you didn't, especially in the case of posts 68, 14, 35, 13. Most of his really strong reactions aren't built off of substantial evidence, and while they may be reaction testing, he also often backed off on earlier accusations made against me (at least) without pushing the testing far enough.

The real thing that threw me off is that he has us both on the ground that either of us could be scum, but with a strong lean towards you. To me, it felt like a scum play to position me against you since I'd been in direct conversation with him in this game so long. However, by still having a cautious, maybe-scum read on me, he could backpedal if you made a strong case against me in your post. You didn't, and I'm interested to see who he says is scum now that I've posted all of this.

Regardless, I'm heavily leaning towards him being scum, but not ruling out that you could be, either. I have much more substantial and evidenced reads on Jason, though, and I'd put a vote on him in good faith. Regardless, if anyone puts a vote down before Jason responds to all this, they're going to have a lot of explaining to do.
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Post Post #73 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:08 pm

Post by Voidedmafia »

Varsoon wrote:(calling attention to it without antagonism).

Threatening to haunt you in the QTs isn't antagonistic?
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Post Post #74 (ISO) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:13 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Voidedmafia wrote:
Varsoon wrote:(calling attention to it without antagonism).

Threatening to haunt you in the QTs isn't antagonistic?


I read it as more of a joke and/or attempt at getting a reaction out of me if I was scum.
Sure, it is a little, but it isn't as substantial as, say, making a medium-to-heavy case on me based on the line that I was holding back information.
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