Newbie 1361: The Ninja Council (Game Over)

[mrbungle]

VOTE: NicCage

because I don't like self-votes.

Why don't you like his vote? I've been reading other games and it seems standard practice here is for EVERYONE to throw out a random vote as a means of generating discussion. Yet your vote doesn't appear "random" at all, you imply that you find something wrong about niccage's behavior. (his self vote)

So tell me, since it's established that most votes in this part of the game are decided on entirely without reason, why are you taking his self-vote seriously? Do you really think that his opening strategy is to lynch himself and that he's going to follow through with it? Why do you think he's likely to be mafia because of it?

[leviathan93]

Self-votes are usually used as a ploy to get attention. No self-righteous townie would actually try to vote himself. and the same goes for Scum. so the conclusion is that IF anyone DID self-vote, it would be because it was trying to get attention and either is a scum ploy or a town ploy.

the negative to self-voting is that it puts the person who did under scrutiny and that scrutiny can be negatively deserved and give scum an advantage. Point is? DON"T SELF VOTE.

[JasonWazza]

Vote Count 1.1

[2] NicCage: NicCage, FLLhawk,
[1] Pirate Mollie: mrbungle,
[1] Mr Bungle: leviathan93,

Not Voting: gene1991, borno, Pirate Mollie, David Jones, Nachomamma8

Deadline: (expired on 2013-05-06 16:20:13)

[mrbungle]

and that's why i don't like this rvs stuff. the votes are by definition meaningless, so you can't actually have a discussion about them. the only use I can see that they have is that maybe everyone now and then you can catch a scum who overreacts, but i'd hope that scum wouldn't be so stupid a to take a self proclaimed "random" vote seriously.

Self-votes are usually used as a ploy to get attention. No self-righteous townie would actually try to vote himself. and the same goes for Scum. so the conclusion is that IF anyone DID self-vote, it would be because it was trying to get attention and either is a scum ploy or a town ploy.

the negative to self-voting is that it puts the person who did under scrutiny and that scrutiny can be negatively deserved and give scum an advantage. Point is? DON"T SELF VOTE.

that's a whole lot of words without you saying whether or not you think niccage self voting makes him more or less likely to be scum. all I get from your post is that you say it makes him unreadable. well I say that's not true, I think a self vote DOES say something about someone's alignment if not only their posting attitude. so once again, do you think his self vote makes him more or less likely to be mafia?

[NicCage]

mrbungle, why did you feel the need to qualify that your vote was random?

I don't see what's wrong with my self-vote, it couldn't indicate anything about my alignment or how it puts me under any scrutiny.

[leviathan93]

and that's why i don't like this rvs stuff. the votes are by definition meaningless, so you can't actually have a discussion about them. the only use I can see that they have is that maybe everyone now and then you can catch a scum who overreacts, but i'd hope that scum wouldn't be so stupid a to take a self proclaimed "random" vote seriously.

Self-votes are usually used as a ploy to get attention. No self-righteous townie would actually try to vote himself. and the same goes for Scum. so the conclusion is that IF anyone DID self-vote, it would be because it was trying to get attention and either is a scum ploy or a town ploy.

the negative to self-voting is that it puts the person who did under scrutiny and that scrutiny can be negatively deserved and give scum an advantage. Point is? DON"T SELF VOTE.

that's a whole lot of words without you saying whether or not you think niccage self voting makes him more or less likely to be scum. all I get from your post is that you say it makes him unreadable. well I say that's not true, I think a self vote DOES say something about someone's alignment if not only their posting attitude. so once again, do you think his self vote makes him more or less likely to be mafia?

It doesn't make it anymore easier to say in my opinion. =/ I have been in games where its been town doing something stupid and in other games I have been in it has been scum from the get go and everyone just plays it off like it is "beginning town naivete" and scum went on to win.

To me, All self votes do is forces town to either "lynch the person" to make sure they won't "do something stupid like that later on" or believe they are innocent.

its a matter of opinion. I use a "whole lot of words" yes. =P and emoticons too.

my belief is to keep playing the game, wait for everyone else to come in a let town discuss what they think should be done with him as a result of him self voting. In a Newbie game, I'm inclined to believe he is town though. that seems more beginner's town move then a scum ploy.

[mrbungle]

mrbungle, why did you feel the need to qualify that your vote was random?

btw, my earlier vote wasn't a "joke vote" or whatever it is that you guys do during this 'rvs' thing that I've read about.

what are you talking about... i said the exact opposite of that

[leviathan93]

mrbungle, why did you feel the need to qualify that your vote was random?

I don't see what's wrong with my self-vote, it couldn't indicate anything about my alignment or how it puts me under any scrutiny.

brother it CAN put you under a LOT of scrutiny. it puts you on the radar in a big way. I have self voted a lot in my history. always for a bad result except once. =P

[NicCage]

lol whoops misread that sentence.

Well I suppose I'll have to take your word for it.

[FLLhawk]

The whole point of the game is to gather information based on (i) what people say (ii) how people vote. Self-voting takes point two out of the equation, which is why I don't like it. I don't consider it inherently scummy, it's just entirely unhelpful and uninformative w.r.t. learning about the person who cast the self-vote.

mrbungle, you made a point to tell us that your vote on wasn't a joke vote or random. What was your reason for the vote?

[mrbungle]

Look at the 3 posts before Pirate's... they are pretty obviously all "joke" posts and it would be so easy and honestly pretty natural for a townie to continue on with the joking. (joking refers to me asking if anyone is town) Then mr pirate comes in with this enthusiastic "hi guys!" The problem I have with that is that it looks like he's wanting to portray himself as this friendly and outgoing townie, yet I don't get that feeling at all because of a few reasons:

1. he afk'd out of the thread since that post
2. he didn't participate in my "are you town" circle jerk line of questioning, which I would expect him to if he really is this friendly/enthusiastic townie
3. he didn't even participate in the random voting (I know I've said I loathe rvs, but it would be better than nothing at all which is what pirate's provided)

Pirate = guy who gave the appearance of being friendly, eager to play, etc etc.... yet he's contributed nothing and he wasn't actually all that friendly.

[pirate mollie]

mrbungle ----.town

for now

[mrbungle]

yo mr pirate what's your alignment?

and

do you have anything else you'd like to contribute other than buddying up to the person accusing you?

[pirate mollie]

I am town

levi kind of reads as town

you are not a newb and neither is fflhawk or I think nickcage. I don't go by join date. <--- you guys are who I am going to be looking at

[Nachomamma8]

i'll be back

[mrbungle]

@pirate

so you aren't suspicious of anything that's been said so far?

and how is that comment about newb-status relevant?

[gene1991]

Since this is my first game, I'm going to ask a lot of questions.

No VOTE: NicCage

That's too bad, I was looking forward to playing with nacho again

Why are you voting for yourself?

btw, my earlier vote wasn't a "joke vote" or whatever it is that you guys do during this 'rvs' thing that I've read about.

mr pirate, are you town/scum?

Why are you asking that question? It's not like he's going to say he's scum if he was.

[mrbungle]

btw, my earlier vote wasn't a "joke vote" or whatever it is that you guys do during this 'rvs' thing that I've read about.

mr pirate, are you town/scum?

Why are you asking that question? It's not like he's going to say he's scum if he was.

yeah, of course not. but since there is nothing to go on this early in the game, you have to start somewhere. even if you ask a question with an obvious answer you can still get valuable information based on how they answer. for example, his response was "I am town." That's sorta a null response for me, or maybe slightly scummy. There's no emotion in that response... a more townie response might have contained emotion/humor/etc.

Being a newbie and asking a ton of questions is fine, but is there anyone you think might be mafia so far?

[gene1991]

btw, my earlier vote wasn't a "joke vote" or whatever it is that you guys do during this 'rvs' thing that I've read about.

mr pirate, are you town/scum?

Why would you vote pirate just all of the sudden like that?

[mrbungle]

btw, my earlier vote wasn't a "joke vote" or whatever it is that you guys do during this 'rvs' thing that I've read about.

mr pirate, are you town/scum?

Why would you vote pirate just all of the sudden like that?

lol i've already explained my reasoning for my vote.... you should read the thread. see post #35. points #2 and 3 in that post are the reason I voted. admittedly those 2 points are fairly weak, but there's also point #1 which came after my vote. and even now, after he's posted a few more times, he's still being completely useless. pirate's given a few town reads but any scum can easily do that. apparently he's not suspicious of anything which is a good indicator that he could be mafia.

[gene1991]

lol i've already explained my reasoning for my vote.... you should read the thread. see post #35. points #2 and 3 in that post are the reason I voted. admittedly those 2 points are fairly weak, but there's also point #1 which came after my vote. and even now, after he's posted a few more times, he's still being completely useless. pirate's given a few town reads but any scum can easily do that. apparently he's not suspicious of anything which is a good indicator that he could be mafia.

I'm sorry, after I submitted that post I found out there was a second page already to this thread. but then I thought it would be against the rules to delete that post.

Being a newbie and asking a ton of questions is fine, but is there anyone you think might be mafia so far?

Actually, just you so far. Sometimes people who come off as overly townsided end up being maf. And all your reasons for tearing apart pirates' one single two-word post are over the top, imo. None of those reasons are really very valid at all, so it just sounds like you're grasping at straws to throw suspicion onto Pirate.


I also slightly suspect FLLhawk for voting for the one who self-voted. If I was maf, I would want to vote for someone who already had a vote on them in hopes of creating a bandwagon type of thing. I don't know if that's a strategy people do here, though. Personally, though, I was also tempted to vote for the one who self-voted because I tend to think self-voting people don't really want to play seriously and might actually be maf. But, your explanation in another post enlightened me about how self-voting can be a conversation starter to lure out more information. So, I changed my mind about suspecting the self-voter. but i still kinda suspect FLLhawk.

[mrbungle]

Well yeah they're over the top, but you have to start somewhere. actually right now i could care less about any of the initial reasons I had for voting pirate based on his "hi guys" post, and now I'm mainly concerned with how he hasn't done anything to move the game forwards. he gave out some town reads, but that does not help the discussion.

(so pirate, next time you post I would like to see you either giving some scumreads or at least making an attempt to get some)

And I agree about the self-voting. Most of the times I see people self-vote they end up being town. (in fact I can't remember a specific instance where they were scum. keep in mind that I come from a forum where the game mechanics and meta are quite different but I think this heuristic holds true) Like leviathan said at the top of this page, self votes are an attempt to gain attention. I would say that seeking attention is a townie trait, or at the very least it's NOT a mafia trait. It's possible that a scum would self-vote to gain town cred from people who think like I do... but I don't find that option very likely.

also, don't worry too much about voting your scumreads, especially when the person you'd be voting for only has 1 vote. You can always change your vote. It's not like mafia are gonna go "LOL" and insta vote anyone who reaches 1 vote away from being lynched. That would be tremendously stupid of them as they'd be outing themselves.

[David Jones]

well a lot of things happened since i confirmed and left...
since its a lot of hazzle to multiquote every post and give my view i'll just do it in this single post

1.) About self voting : its annoying even if its the first day, bcos you effectively divert attention from the actual task of getting information but at the same time 90% of those who self are townie atleast from my experience ....bcos mafia try to blend it and not attract attention .....so self voting is not a effective strategy for mafia

2.) About FLLHawk voting for NicCage : now this is something suspicious ...bcos by the way FLLHawk posted it seems he had some experience with mafia games and esp self voters ...then he would know its even more inefficient to vote for the selfvoters ..basically its useless and like playing right into their game by giving what they actually want i.e the attention
for me the best way to deal with it would be ignore the vote all together and turn the topic elsewhere like "meh if you didn't vote for urself then who would you have voted" ..."who do you suspect apart from yourself" ...stuffs like that but he just voted for him without even trying to get some information

3.) Interaction between Mr.Bungle and Pirate: the way pirate is acting is fishy esp that he initially avoided the are you town question... but at this early in the game we cant be sure that he is mafia ...but i'll definitely give more importance to his posts

so for now i'll wait till the activity picks up

[FLLhawk]

@gene1991: There is nothing wrong with creating a bandwagon, in fact, many would argue that it is useful early in the game because it helps you get reads on people. If I have an early opportunity to vote for a reason other than 'LOL RVS vote', I'll take it. This was the case with the NicCage vote. I'm not concerned that he now has two votes on him, because it's not like he's in danger of getting quick hammered.

@David Jones: I don't see the inefficiency in my vote. It's generated some interesting discussion. I realize self-voting isn't inherently scummy and I said as much in post 34.

[NicCage]

I am town

levi kind of reads as town

you are not a newb and neither is fflhawk or I think nickcage. I don't go by join date. <--- you guys are who I am going to be looking at

What do you mean by that? Are you suspicious of us because you think we are experienced?

Since this is my first game, I'm going to ask a lot of questions.
Why are you voting for yourself?

I was voting myself mainly as a joke, since my vote would have been random anyway I thought it would be a funnier way to respond to mrbungle's question. I also thought it might be possible to get some information from people's reactions to my self-vote.