Newbie 1345: Mafia in a Bind (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 3.06

Mac (1) - NicCage
NicCage (1) - Mac

Not Voting (3) - Didi, frog, Xiao Long

With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch.

The deadline is Tuesday, April 23, 2013, at 5:40 PM EDT (UTC-4).

Mod Notes

Mac is V/LA until April 15.
Didi is V/LA until April 19.

[Xiao Long]

Whoops, didn't realise it had been so long since I posted. I'm keeping up and will be doing reads of Didi and Frog tomorrow after my classes end. Tonight I'm stuck working on projects.

[Mac]

I'm still here! Struggling for time. And motivation.

[Mac]

That doesn't really make sense since it wouldn't have mattered whether or not frog voted Mutley, and he said he would have if slimer hadn't been hammered.
You weren't generating real discussion, even if Mutley had been scum your reason against frog didn't make sense and you still ended the day without investigating any other player. Didi put out the opinion that Mutley shouldn't be quicklynched, you disagreed, and Didi's position got more support. So instead you pretended to scumhunt for awhile and then ended the day once you felt that enough time had passed.

(From memory)

Mutley; I am mafia.
Mac; Let's vote Mutley now, not slimer, regardless of whether he has hammered or no. He has admitted mafia.
frog; No, I want to see if slimer has been hammered yet.

You can see where I came from, right? It's not hard. If Mutley

had

been mafia, it's perfectably reasonable for me to assume frog was trying to protect his buddy for one more night.

I can't even begin to tell you how much bullshit you are talking. I feel it's pretty obvious what I was going for at the above and pretty much proves I didn't know Mutley's alignment: why would I push for frog and Mutley scum team pretty hard if I knew Mutley was going to flip town? Why would I make links, "pretend discussion" whilst I knew it would be irrelevant when Mutley flipped?

Again, as much as I have derped around in this game, I'm not that much of an idiot to paint such a target on my head.

[NicCage]

It isn't reasonable though. Why wouldn't you push for it? Your scumpartner is still out there, and I suspect that your and Didi's disagreement was meant to gain Didi towncred. I mean look at Didi's first posts D3, being suspicious of you as the rest of the town was, yet keeping his options wide open to vote for anybody (466). He even agreed with you over Xiao and directly backed up the same thing that you are using for your defense right now (471).

[Mac]

It isn't reasonable though. Why wouldn't you push for it? Your scumpartner is still out there, and I suspect that your and Didi's disagreement was meant to gain Didi towncred. I mean look at Didi's first posts D3, being suspicious of you as the rest of the town was, yet keeping his options wide open to vote for anybody (466). He even agreed with you over Xiao and directly backed up the same thing that you are using for your defense right now (471).

It is reasonable if you read the posts. Not sure what you mean by "why wouldn't you push for it?" - is that your effort of discrediting my case?

But I'll bite; let's assume for a second that I am scum.

scumMac will know Mutley will flip town. This means that me quicklynching him would be stupid, and me pushing frog as his buddy would also be stupid. Comprende, so far? That's stupid scum play, and whilst I've had a pretty dumb game here, I'm MUCH more cautious as scum. Of course you can say "lol, changed your ways" but I've admitted my mistakes and tried to point us in the right direction for this lynch. Whilst I defend and continue to attack you, all you can say is "why wouldn't you push for it?" That just shows you have no counter-argument: you are scum.

I actually agree about 466 being pretty scummy but I'm not sure about what you mean about "directly backed up" - he admitted that I made a good point about not knowing Mutley's alignment because I was pushing the COMPLETE wrong team. Note this entire conversation was between me and him - "directly backing up" would be someone like Xiao/you/frog busting in and saying what I said.

I did feel Xiao looked scummy at the time; this was further backed by the "vote for me" scandal. But when Xiao did vote for me, he unvoted the second you sheeped his vote in the worst possible manner.

Just for everyone else who still doesn't realise Nic is scum.

I've seen scum self lynch a couple times, though one was a ragequit. It's useful for scum not to make their partner hammer or not give up information, something like that. But yeah, what Mutley did was totally useless to us.

So yeah, it's lylo, sounds like you all realize it already, so just be careful with your vote.

I'm still leaning toward Didi being scum, and I'd still like mac to tell me what he thought Didi's towntell was.

(Note: no word of me being scum here, this is his first post of the day)

I don't think #419 is a strong towntell. Didi flips around a bunch on reads early D1 without really trying to follow through on any of them. He's sure Mutley is scum, then back off once Xeg and MP5 read him as town. MP5 makes a case on Didi, and Didi's defense is that he doesn't really know what he's doing. Ok, I can live with that.
But later in the day Didi sheeps MP5 and frog on slimer without any hesitation or scumhunting, he see's it as an easy lynch.
Onto D2, he stops Mac wanting a quicklynch, which is a town thing to do, but when he says he wants more information he doesn't go out and make any. All he does is pose a far fetched scenario. I think this is an attempt to pick up towncred while waiting out the inevitable Mutley lynch.

That said, Mac has been asserting some really weird stuff lately. The point about frog's voting was never valid, and he carried it far too long.
Also, how is Xiao telling you to vote him any different from what you just did? You're saying if he thinks you're mafia he should vote you, and that's exactly the argument he's making.

I didn't think Didi and Mac could be scum together though

so I'll have to reassess my scumteam reads

Second post of the day: again doesn't directly call me scum. Says he thinks Didi could be scum in his first post of the day, and then comes out with this.

And then post 3:

VOTE: Mac I think Xiao is right

This is so much like sheeping scum it's unreal. "Let's be careful with our votes" and then he hops on the first town wagon he can hammer as soon as.

You should all note how his cases on me come

after

he's placed the vote and it hasn't worked out to his advantage (ie he didn't hammer me and win.)

[NicCage]

My counterargument has already been stated more than once, I think it's clear that it I think that you are wrong and that it does make sense for you to have wanted to quicklynch Mutley.

I see my reads changing naturally through a series of posts. I guess voting without spelling out my reasons wasn't smart, but I did have reasons, I stated a couple of them in 481 and I've only expanded on them after Xiao's unvote.

[Mac]

Point out your counterargument please.

In 481 you listed a whole bunch of reasons why Didi could be scum, similarly in 468, and you end by saying it's unlikely we are the scum team which suggests to me, given the massive paragraphs about Didi and so little about me, you felt him more scummy than me. You didn't say my behaviour was scummy; you said "weird."

Now, you simply HAVE to push me as scum because of your vote. Your reads changed "naturally" (ie Didi and Mac scumteam is unlikely; leaning Didi > Mac is scum) in the space of three posts, or 20 minutes. That's not natural; that's forced.

[NicCage]

. You would encourage the quickhammer of Mutley because you knew you had the justification to do it, everyone wanted him lynched that day. If you were successful in getting him out of the way quickly you probably would have been under even less fire than you are now from putting him at L-1 because instead of ending the discussion without everyone's permission you would have had accomplices that quicklynched with you.

It's important to note that you pushed frog with a non-reason. Your case linking frog to Mutley didn't make sense whether Mutley was town or not. The reason you did it is because you wanted to waste time during the day accomplishing nothing, so you made up a reason to push frog with.

I said your behavior was weird and that you both needed reexamining, and I did that, yes in twenty minutes, and decided that you actually were the scummiest candidate and that Didi was most likely your partner. Weird assertions are not that far away from bullshit assertions.

[Mac]

So in 20 minutes you went from me and Didi are an unlikely scum team to we were a likely scum team?

My, what a quick change of heart.

[NicCage]

It only takes one reread.

[Mac]

That's not naturally changing your opinion as you described earlier.

[Xiao Long]

Whoops, didn't realise it had been so long since I posted. I'm keeping up and will be doing reads of Didi and Frog tomorrow after my classes end. Tonight I'm stuck working on projects.

Okay, so it's obvious this didn't happen. Apologies, will try to get them done tonight. Getting into that finals time at university, so a little more busy lately.

[Xiao Long]

why would I push for frog and Mutley scum team pretty hard if I knew Mutley was going to flip town? Why would I make links, "pretend discussion" whilst I knew it would be irrelevant when Mutley flipped?

It could be to make yourself appear more town. Honestly, if you are scum, I don't see why you WOULDN'T do this. Mutley was an easy lynch, scum knew this, town knew this. The only stupid thing is I didn't actually think Mutley would lynch himself (aka - didn't know self-lynch wasn't against the rules). If I had known that, I probably would have unvoted him (even though I wanted him gone).

I see my reads changing naturally through a series of posts. I guess voting without spelling out my reasons wasn't smart, but I did have reasons, I stated a couple of them in 481 and I've only expanded on them after Xiao's unvote.

Voting without stating reasons indeed wasn't smart as now you're stuck forced to leave your vote on Mac the rest of the day. The only thing that makes me ponder is whether you assumed your scum buddy would vote immediately after you and win, thus meaning Mac isn't scum, or you're a legitimate town that likes to jump the gun. The latter seems most unlikely, though.

[Xiao Long]

Oh, it could also mean that you and Mac are scum buddies and you voting Mac and no one else voting him would prove Mac's scumminess thus taking the pressure off you for the rest of the game. Ooh la, quite difficult.

[Mac]

Xiao you answered your own question in 613. "Mutley was an easy lynch" - scum had no reason to quicklynch him. Neither did town like, I was just a fucking idiot who didn't read properly.

[Xiao Long]

I'm only stating that it's not the best thing you can use to defend yourself. But I don't think it's the best thing to attack you on, either.

[NicCage]

How does one naturally change their opinion? Is it not by reading and thinking about the game?

Yeah, ultimately you're going to have to choose between us, and if you choose right you'll have another conundrum tomorrow. Though I would like to hear from Didi before you choose, unless you're choosing me.

[Mac]

How does one naturally change their opinion? Is it not by reading and thinking about the game?

Yeah, ultimately you're going to have to choose between us, and if you choose right you'll have another conundrum tomorrow. Though I would like to hear from Didi before you choose,

unless you're choosing me.

Naturally changing your opinion would be reading me/Didi's early posts and thinking "unlikely scum team" and then us posting more and you thinking "yeah, possible scum team."

Yours was just a flat-out change of heart to support your sheeping on a townie.

[NicCage]

I posted indicating that I thought it was weird that both you and Didi were the people I found to be independently the most scummy and that I would have to look more into it, which I did.

[Mac]

In 20 minutes you managed to analyse both myself and Didi to conclude we were both scum and sheep Xiao's vote on me?

[NicCage]

Yes

Because I've decided which way I want to go. I think Didi and Mac are the scumteam. It would have been stupid for town to immediately lynch Mutley on D2, so why would Mac even think that?
I think Mac and Didi planned that conversation so that Didi could pick up towncred and MP5 wouldn't push his lynch. Now MP5 is dead and Mac clears Didi as a townread, while pushing a shitty case against you.

It had seemed strange to me before that both you and Didi could be the scumteam because of the way you interacted at the beginning of D2, but then I reread those events and ^this is what I saw. It doesn't take that long to read it.

[Mac]

Yep, made up case that came after your vote? Thought as much.

Pretty sure I didn't once clear Didi as town, a nice try though.

[NicCage]

No, then I would have to have made it up in 8 minutes. I looked at your and Didi's ISO in between my post talking about you and Didi and my vote.

[Mac]

When I say madeup, I mean lies. You know?

Why didn't you say it all in one post? Too much to type out when you thought you coulda had the win?