Newbie 1361: The Ninja Council (Game Over)

[JasonWazza]

Vote Count 1.4

[2] Mr Bungle: Pirate Mollie, FLLhawk,
[1] NicCage: NicCage,

Not Voting: gene1991, borno, David Jones, Nachomamma8, mrbungle, leviathan93,

Deadline: (expired on 2013-05-06 16:20:13)

[borno]

Hello there everyone. I hope I don't do too badly for my debut game on mafiascum.

Anyway, I'll post tomorrow since now it's night where I live.

[mrbungle]

Hello there everyone. I hope I don't do too badly for my debut game on mafiascum.

Anyway, I'll post tomorrow since now it's night where I live.

this makes me want to cry

.....................................

apparently standard practice around here is to not give a fuck about the game so i'm gonna do that for awhile but in the meantime:

obvious town: pirate/gene <<<< these cannot be disputed
town: fllhawk <<<< i would put this in the above category except that I'd like to see more activity out of him
meh: david jones <<<< this guy really needs to do a better job of explaining his reads
worthless or scum: nic cage/leviathan/borno/nacho

if you're in the worthless category, that means you've put 0 effort into giving reads or making yourself readable. nic cage's play is pissing me off the most. i originally counted the self vote as a point in his favor but he's proceeded to do nothing since then. he also made a point about how he wanted to use his self vote to generate discussion and make reads..... and where are these reads? where are any of his reads? or original thoughts? or anything game related?

VOTE: nic

for popping in every now and then to say something off topic but never actually giving reads or playing the damn game. apparently the only way i can get people to start playing is to just vote for them and see what happens.... well so be it


also, if i read one more fucking post where someone says they think it's a good idea to lynch a bad townie as a rational for their read imma go all scarface on this thread

[mrbungle]

just caught up on the thread ....hmm a lot to read and analyses

@mrbungle pirate gave a valid explanation for his initial behaviors and called you out as scummy ...but you couldn't come up with a good reply apart from dumb self votes, whining about peoples inactivity etc
now you are picking on FFThawk as an easier target maybe

ok my reads are :
pirate,gene- maybe town
FFTHawk, MrBungle -maybe scum
nicCage- not sure

hey david, who do YOU want to lynch? I don't care about who has however many votes or anything like that, who do YOU want to lynch? you aren't pushing anything at all, and all your "analyses" posts are just recaps of what has already been said. do you care about the lynch? do you want to lynch scum? then how about ...... making an effort to do so?

[mrbungle]

yo nacho who we gonna nightkill? i say lets kill ms pirate she seems to have caught me

its against the rules to play against your role. if you are indeed scum we should lynch you for the confession. if you are townie pretending to be scum we should lynch you for doing something that stupid.

"if you are indeed scum we should lynch you"

amazing insight right there

So, do you have any worthwhile reads? All you're doing right now is defending me by saying I'm most likely stupid town, while simultaneously soft pushing for my lynch on the basis of me being an annoying townie or whatever. That reads as you not actually giving two shits about what my actual alignment is. If you think I'm town, which seems to be the case, why are you advocating my lynch? And why are you not talking about anything else in the thread?

So far your play has perhaps been the most worthless of all. Yes, more worthless than even borno or nacho. Because while they haven't said anything, you've managed to play an even more unreadable game they have! At least I can look at nacho and think "well that guy sure is scummy for not posting." You on the other hand have offered up a bunch a null play. You were oh so chatty during the self-voting discussion... where did that leviathan go? Did he run off once the scumhunting actually started?

[pirate mollie]

lol

can we plz lynch this guy already

[mrbungle]

pirate, are you reading the fucking game? does levi look townie to you? you can laugh off my posts and treat me like shit, i don't care about that and i'm going to keep posting. but at least do me the courtesy of discussing my reads with me so you can actually accomplish something other than tunneling a townie for all of D1.

and don't tell yourself, oh it's ok if he flips town, because he's shitty town. if you find yourself saying that, don't believe it for one second! that's your brain trying to tell you that you have an astounding amount of confirmation bias and that you should pull your head out of your ass.

i'm trying not to be rude but sheeeesh you are making it fucking difficult.

lets pretend that you're not going to lynch me. pretend i'm not even a player in the game, or whatever you need to do in order to have a conversation with me about reads. because I AM going to flip town and you are going to feel real dumb if you wasted all this time ignoring my posts

[FLLhawk]

pirate, are you reading the fucking game? does levi look townie to you? you can laugh off my posts and treat me like shit, i don't care about that and i'm going to keep posting. but at least do me the courtesy of discussing my reads with me so you can actually accomplish something other than tunneling a townie for all of D1.

and don't tell yourself, oh it's ok if he flips town, because he's shitty town. if you find yourself saying that, don't believe it for one second! that's your brain trying to tell you that you have an astounding amount of confirmation bias and that you should pull your head out of your ass.

i'm trying not to be rude but sheeeesh you are making it fucking difficult.

lets pretend that you're not going to lynch me. pretend i'm not even a player in the game, or whatever you need to do in order to have a conversation with me about reads. because I AM going to flip town and you are going to feel real dumb if you wasted all this time ignoring my posts

It's hard to have a read on anyone except for you and pirate mollie. Nic is the only other person that I can conceivabley believe one might have some kind of read on. The fact that Nic hasn't come back to let us know what his opinion was regarding the self-vote discussion is odd, especially because I asked him a direct question about this. Otherwise, there's nothing to go on. The fact that you are demanding reads from people about posters who have contributed little to nothing is completely obnoxious and it makes it hard to take you seriously.

Consider also that your abrasive, condescending style might actually be hindering discussion because we have what looks like 3 total newbies in this game. They likely don't want to contribute because they think you'll pop into the thread and shit all over their opinions as soon as they post.

[mrbungle]

you don;t think levi is scummy? here's what he's done so far

1. spent a good amount of time talking about self voting policy, which is not alignment indicative.
2. dropped out of the discussion as soon as it was no longer about boring policy issues
3. only re-entered the convo to both call me town, AND push for my lynch

so in other words, he has shown no aversion to joining in the discussion...... except for when that discussion is actually important. the ONLY thing relevant to the lynch that he's talked about is how he wants to lynch the person (me) that he has a town read on

[mrbungle]

oh yeah, forgot

UNVOTE:
VOTE: leviathan

[Nachomamma8]

I'm back, finally.

No VOTE: NicCage

That's too bad, I was looking forward to playing with nacho again

I'm glad to give you the opportunity again.

my belief is to keep playing the game, wait for everyone else to come in a let town discuss what they think should be done with him as a result of him self voting. In a Newbie game, I'm inclined to believe he is town though. that seems more beginner's town move then a scum ploy.

Do you have anything game-related, by any chance?

in fact I can't remember a specific instance where they were scum. keep in mind that I come from a forum where the game mechanics and meta are quite different but I think this heuristic holds true

You'll find that it's no large task for scum to type their own name in vote tags here. In fact, people get a little nervous when you throw out emotional appeals like candy.

strongest town read award goes to gene1991. his posts have new town written all over em.

Explain this a little more.

holy damn i miss teamliquid players lol

whatever pirate. i see you've got your confirmation bias goggles on, so have fun with that.

Strange that you jump to confirmation bias goggles before crazy scum tunneling. Why do you think she is town?

yo nacho who we gonna nightkill? i say lets kill ms pirate she seems to have caught me

If I try to mislynch her, she'll meltdown and people will take that as a scumtell, so we don't even need a nightkill!

Either way he's a good vote.

But I think one lynch would be significantly better than the other, don't you?

Vote: NicCage

[Nachomamma8]

lol

can we plz lynch this guy already

What are you seeing in him at the moment?

[mrbungle]

@Nacho

my original thoughts about her counter aggression actually were that she was doing some crazy scum tunneling.... you can see in that I kept calling her scum for awhile. It wasn't till later in our argument that I realized that we were probably just two townies yelling at each other because there was nobody else in the thread to yell at. I realized that no matter her alignment, her crazy reaction to my case against her was due to her just.... being mad that I called her scum. With that in mind I reread her posts and it sounded like a legitimately angry townie rather than an angry scum or a scum trying to feign anger.

As for the town read on gene, I explained that read later on. He appears to be a first time player. His posts are so thick with paranoia.. I really see that more likely coming from a new town than a new scum player. Have you ever read a first time player's posts? They are often the most paranoid sounding stuff ever. When I asked him for his first reads, he said the only person he suspected was me, the reason being that I was appearing "too town." I say that is newbie thinking 101. He later said that the scummiest thing in my filter was the joke where I "claimed scum" and he wrote a bunch of stuff about reverse psychology... more evidence of his high level of paranoia. Paranoia indicates a townie mindset. I think his ideas are more than a little crazy but that's just a result of him being thrown into his first game and trying to make sense of everything.

[FLLhawk]

more evidence of his high level of paranoia. Paranoia indicates a townie mindset.

I disagree. Newbie scum can also look mighty paranoid from my experience.

[Nachomamma8]

With that in mind I reread her posts and it sounded like a legitimately angry townie rather than an angry scum or a scum trying to feign anger.

But what brings you here?
Why angry townie over scum caught for the wrong reasons?

[mrbungle]

more evidence of his high level of paranoia. Paranoia indicates a townie mindset.

I disagree. Newbie scum can also look mighty paranoid from my experience.

what is your point? do you think he's scum or are you just arguing with me for the sake of it?

honestly though, you're probably wrong. which of the following is the most likely:

1. he's a first time town player who is naturally paranoid
2. first time scum player who is so good at scum in his first game, that he's able to fake looking like a paranoid first time town player

with number 1 you don't have to assume anything. with #2 you're giving a first time player a HUGE amount of credit in their very first scum game

[gene1991]

gene, is this your first ever forum mafia game?

Yes, it is.

just caught up on the thread ....hmm a lot to read and analyses

@mrbungle pirate gave a valid explanation for his initial behaviors and called you out as scummy ...but you couldn't come up with a good reply apart from dumb self votes, whining about peoples inactivity etc
now you are picking on FFThawk as an easier target maybe

ok my reads are :
pirate,gene- maybe town
FFTHawk, MrBungle -maybe scum
nicCage- not sure

You suspect FFTHawk and MrBungle. Do you mean you think they are partners, or just that either one (but not both) could be maf?

obvious town: pirate/gene <<<< these cannot be disputed

town: fllhawk <<<< i would put this in the above category except that I'd like to see more activity out of him
meh: david jones <<<< this guy really needs to do a better job of explaining his reads
worthless or scum: nic cage/leviathan/borno/nacho

I'm curious how you went from nearly lynching pirate to now believing she is "obvious" town?

[mrbungle]

With that in mind I reread her posts and it sounded like a legitimately angry townie rather than an angry scum or a scum trying to feign anger.

But what brings you here?
Why angry townie over scum caught for the wrong reasons?

lol this might be offensive but i don't mean it to be.

that distinction came from when I learned pirate was a female. that explained away a lot of her apparent anger/frustrations at being accused of being a liar. I'll go back and reread her stuff though because it's getting annoying with her being completely disinterested in any further discussion.

and besides, everyone is over-playing how strongly i was willing to lynch pirate. my case on her was the FIRST case of the game. first cases are USUALLY WEAK. I knew this even while making the case, but I'm not the type of player who sits back and hopes that everyone else will get discussion going.

Also, a good amount of my town read on her is just based on a gut read..... the subjective kind of read that you can only get through having an intense discussion with someone.

[FLLhawk]

more evidence of his high level of paranoia. Paranoia indicates a townie mindset.

I disagree. Newbie scum can also look mighty paranoid from my experience.

what is your point? do you think he's scum or are you just arguing with me for the sake of it?

honestly though, you're probably wrong. which of the following is the most likely:

1. he's a first time town player who is naturally paranoid
2. first time scum player who is so good at scum in his first game, that he's able to fake looking like a paranoid first time town player

with number 1 you don't have to assume anything. with #2 you're giving a first time player a HUGE amount of credit in their very first scum game

My point is that I disagree with your read and still have a null read on gene at the moment.

Your first point is certainly plausible. Your second point relies on the assumption that only first time town players are paranoid. I maintain that this assumption is false based on my experience.

Look, you bitch that people don't present reads, but here I am telling you that I disagree with your premise for having a town read on a player. Then you bitch about me not having a point. Get over yourself.

Also, you seem to think that every game observation should be followed by a declaration that we have a scum/townread on a player. Why is that? Do you not think it can be useful to make a statement/observation, or ask a question and simply see how people respond/react?

[mrbungle]

I'm curious how you went from nearly lynching pirate to now believing she is "obvious" town?

i didn't want to lynch her in the sense that you're talking about. Yes, she was my strongest scum read. But we have like 2 weeks or something to decide on a lynch, and hardly anyone else had posted yet so it was very far from a final and comprehensive read. Yes, I was very aggressive and tunneled her for quite a bit, but that's how you figure out people's alignments.

[FLLhawk]

and besides, everyone is over-playing how strongly i was willing to lynch pirate.

Given the tenor of your posts, I think people have reacted appropriately.

[mrbungle]

Also, you seem to think that every game observation should be followed by a declaration that we have a scum/townread on a player. Why is that? Do you not think it can be useful to make a statement/observation, or ask a question and simply see how people respond/react?

Yes I can see how my play would be annoying. But a simple fact is that up until... maybe the last 30 minutes or so.... the game was still just starting up. People weren't willing to go into the accusation/discussion phase so I tried to push them into it. I've never played a game with 2 week deadlines before. I had no idea what to expect coming into this. If people were to play in the 48 hr format i'm used to the way they're playing here, town would get rolled every time. I knew that things might be a little slow but I had NO idea it would be this slow. It seems like things are going fine now though, which will do wonders for my sanity.

[mrbungle]

Your first point is certainly plausible. Your second point relies on the assumption that only first time town players are paranoid. I maintain that this assumption is false based on my experience.

You're completely missing the point. Do town know who the scum are? No. So are they NATURALLY paranoid about who might be scum? Yes. Do scum know who the scum are? Yes. So can they be NATURALLY paranoid about who scum are? No. They have to fake it, which requires a certain level of either experience or natural skill. I am saying that it's far more likely that gene1991 is in fact just a new town player, rather than being some prodigy 1st time scum player.

A town player does not have to fake their paranoia. A scum player DOES have to fake their paranoia. One is a natural tendency, and the other is a feigned tendency. So that means if a first time player appears VERY paranoid, they are either A) doing what comes naturally to them which makes them town or B) faking what comes naturally to a townie which means they're scum.

Option B means they are good at playing scum, not even considering the fact that it's their first game. I do not think a first time scum player would even have the slightest clue as how to properly emulate a first time town player.

[FLLhawk]

You're completely missing the point. Do town know who the scum are? No. So are they NATURALLY paranoid about who might be scum? Yes. Do scum know who the scum are? Yes. So can they be NATURALLY paranoid about who scum are? No. They have to fake it, which requires a certain level of either experience or natural skill. I am saying that it's far more likely that gene1991 is in fact just a new town player, rather than being some prodigy 1st time scum player.

A town player does not have to fake their paranoia. A scum player DOES have to fake their paranoia. One is a natural tendency, and the other is a feigned tendency. So that means if a first time player appears VERY paranoid, they are either A) doing what comes naturally to them which makes them town or B) faking what comes naturally to a townie which means they're scum.

Option B means they are good at playing scum, not even considering the fact that it's their first game. I do not think a first time scum player would even have the slightest clue as how to properly emulate a first time town player.

I don't know what you are talking about. I've never known town to be

paranoid

about who scum are. They are

suspicious

. Scum can be paranoid about being perceived as scummy.

In any case, you have completely missed the point of gene's post. I reread his post and he is absolutely not paranoid. He has essentially made a case that your 'who we gonna night kill nacho' post could lead people to ignore it based on WIFOM.

[mrbungle]

well whatever. it doesn';;t look like people want to lynch him so he can provide his own defense for the time being. i'm more interested in talking about leviathan.

see post 108

tldr of that post is that he's being somewhat active yet not pushing anything or giving any relevant original opinions. his biggest contribution so far was saying that he has a town read on me all the while suggesting that i should be lynched. apart from that all he's done is make some non alignment indicative posts about nature of self voters . in fact those posts are his biggest contributions to the thread