Open 480 - C9++ Game Over!

[goodmorning]

At which point the rest of us dead people said NEVER DO THAT AGAIN

[Cheery Dog]

I would have remained voting beli, though probably would have mentioned beli's PoE post from day 2 again.

If you haven't figured it out, HD lived due to his thurhame read, we already knew he wasn't an sk.

But yeah this game ended up a lot easier for us with pecan's death after he practically was actually confirm town due ns being on him.

I also regret going off at hd's vca, because it basically meant I couldn't do it to accidentally draw attention all the distancing we were doing as a scumteam. (votecounts, 17, 19 and 20 where I didn't get off beli sure to me noticing that it was just me and edos on the wagon)

It didn't help that safety was confirmed town due to what letters had been claimed. But it was fun waking up to a locked thread with no idea what happened.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Well good game scum.

You played well. Actually your well played game has unfortunately been overshadowed by some stupidity on the part of certain townies, no need to mention names...

Cheery I had issues with your posts all game and kept hassling you about them, but could never see reason to take it further. Well played on your part.

Belisarius, you made a good claim, that certainly helped. Your play was pretty obv-scum for the most part, but it blended in just fine with the anti-town and derp-town players. In a different scenario I reckon your Day 2 play would see you lynched without question.

Cub and Apozzle, I liked your mason play and crumbing a lot, it helped so much and put town in a very strong position early. A pity it didn't see us through.

ac1983fan you shouldn't beat yourself up about your play, from what little I'd seen of you before this game I thought you were a good player and you played fine here. Besides the more you confront your weaknesses and work on them the better you'll get. Having said that I'll just repeat that I really don't see what's bad about your play.

As for everyone I haven't mentioned, I hate you and I wish you were all... Nah, just kidding, good game. I'm disappointed and pissed about my lynch, but I've made that clear enough in the dead thread and moved on.

Thank you for moderating Gamma. I thought you were pretty attentive and gave us a hassle-free game. Much appreciated.

[implosion]

I want to explain this one more time because I feel like pecan isn't understanding my argument, which might be because i'm not saying it clearly enough. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, I just feel like you aren't understanding the argument that I'm making.

Given the claims,

safety could not have been scum.

It was absolutely, positively impossible for safety to be scum unless either a power role was claiming VT (which I assumed wasn't happening) or Belisarius was actually a cop and was lying about his result (which I assumed wasn't happening) or a power role was lying and claiming a different power role (which I assumed wasn't happening).

The fact that SafetyDance was absolutely, positively town meant that you were absolutely, positively scum. It is

not

reckless to lynch a player who a confirmed-town cop is claiming a guilty on. I did not know that you were town (which should be obvious) - your VT claim didn't matter to me because, given everything else that had been claimed, you were scum no matter what.

When I say that I was assuming no townies were lying, I mean the following logical argument: Premise 1, if pecan is town then there is a townie lying (either safety lying about his result, or some other townie (OTHER than you) lying about their claim; premise 2, no townies are lying; conclusion, pecan is scum.

Regardless: good game.

[pieceofpecanpie]

When I say that I was assuming no townies were lying, I mean the following logical argument: Premise 1, if pecan is town then there is a townie lying (either safety lying about his result, or some other townie (OTHER than you) lying about their claim[ ...]

All the more reason to

not

quickhammer me.

premise 2, no townies are lying; conclusion, pecan is scum.

BZZZZT WRONG, I was VT

and

I claimed VT. Therefore, Pecan is

not

scum.

Again, no justification for quickhammering me.

What argument are you making again? That it isn't reckless to blindly play follow-the-cop and quickhammer?

Well I must say, your stellar points have certainly got me convinced...

[Cheery Dog]

A confirmed town cop is worth following usually.

[implosion]

pecan. premise 2 was false. i was assuming it was true. you weren't confirmed town. I didn't know you were vt. I don't know how you can't wrap your head around that.

fun fact, i'm not you. I don't have information fmpov that you have fypov. you would have been absolutely justified in quickhammering me if safety had claimed a guilty on me.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Fun fact: quickhammering [the most active] [a] player in the game before they have had a chance to speak is bad town play.

I won't be reading your guide to playing Mafia anytime soon.

No, no, let's not beat a dead horse but...

fun fact, i'm not you. I don't have information fmpov that you have fypov.

Then

wait for me to have a chance to post and share that information

... Seriously, how can you you grasp exactly what this sentence means when you follow it up with this:

you would have been absolutely justified in quickhammering me if safety had claimed a guilty on me.

and not realise that those two statements put together are absolutely balls to the wall retarded...?

[implosion]

Then wait for me to have a chance to post and share that information

by information i mean that you're confirmed town from your point of view. It's impossible to share that information.

There is nothing you could have said at that point that would have absolved you of being lynched. The only thing that could be said at that point that would make you not the only possible lynch choice would be safety saying he lied. Even if you had responded, you still would have been the objectively best lynch choice until safety said he was lying.

[Belisarius]

Thanks for the amazing game all, you had me sweating all game long, and that is what I

love

about scum: the endorphin rush that comes with impending doom. I was absolutely convinced that I was going to be lynched every day except D1.

Behind the scenes, I was like Rincewind to Cheery's David Caruso. Permit me to summarise the Scum QT every night:

Me:

Ohshitohshitohshitohshit this time I'm really going to die

Cheery:

*shades*

About the only entertaining thing that happened in there was that when Edos was lynched, my reaction was, verbatim, "Christ fucking shit merde."

Pity we had to ice Cub D1, though, I was looking forward to playing with him again.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@implosion

Why would I give two shits about arguing against a [gambit] cop claim... How about sharing my reads, hmmm? You know, thoughts and opinions on other players. I call that sharing information. Oh and Safety could've come and said it was all lies too, but whatever, that would be his derp problem.

Anyway, seriously enough.

[Cub Daigoro]

GG. Well, game anyway.

Thanks for modding, Gamma.

Here's the Mason QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/aKGsHm4Fe5vUL

We correctly ID'd Beli and Edo during N1, but Cheery wasn't on our radar.

[Cheery Dog]

I guess it's only fair to post this
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/fxSYMBPkMNPvm

(seeing as Beli has summarised it anyway) If it didn't want it, don't give me links to QTs. <_<

[Cub Daigoro]

If it didn't want it, don't give me links to QTs. <_<

Is this addressed to me? If so, I apologize. I thought posting QTs in thread was common practice.

[Cheery Dog]

No, it was to my scumbuddies.
And then me stating that I'll generally release anyway, I was just too lazy to go to quicktopic to get it earlier.

[SafetyDance]

Yeah,

SORRY!

.

GM gave the tl;dr reasoning, if you want the long versions with discussion with others, Dead QT. I think it's all been said but anything else you want to say that hasn't been said, say it.

Oh and Safety could've come and said it was all lies too, but whatever, that would be his derp problem.

I'd like to point out that you insinuating I saw the wagon run up and lynched before the thread got locked is absolutely wrong. If you read what I wrote in the QT you would know that (3rd paragraphs in /m41 /m49).

Putting that aside now, yeah CD, you played almost exactly like MM, which was half the reason my actual investigation was on you. I did wonder when you bussed Beli in lylo if anyone read that game.

Beli, I thought your claim was intentional and not by mistake, 2T/0T is the same scum team, we were none the wiser and you could have kept pretending you were being blocked quite safely.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'd like to point out that you insinuating I saw the wagon run up and lynched before the thread got locked is absolutely wrong.

Nah, that was just another reason for implosion why quick hammering was a bad idea...

I'm aware you weren't back soon enough.

[Belisarius]

Beli, I thought your claim was intentional and not by mistake

It was intentional -- I'd breadcrumbed preparing for a cop claim because I expected to be a lynch target every day.

I expected to be investigated because it makes sense to either clear or convict another copclaim imo.

[Thurhame]

I probably wouldn't have been nearly as suspicious of Beli if I hadn't just come out of my own first real (as in not replaced-in-near-end-of-game) game as scum, where my attitude was very similar to what I saw in Beli this game.

Of course, PoE makes that moot. Townhunting beats Scumhunting any day.

[Apozzle]

I saw your comparison between how Beli was playing and how you played in N1318, Thurhame. Unfortunately I died shortly after you joined so I never really got my say in on you. You clearly were not playing how I had seen you play as scum. However, I might have been a little suspicious of you because it looked like you might have been being going for the exact polar opposite playstyle - you were coming on so strongly that it looked a little like you might be trying to hide something.

Still, accepting Beli as town required a lot of benefit of the doubt given that his claim put town at 7 PRs (noting that all the other roles were basically confirmed). I know back on day two I was talking about giving the PRs the benefit of the doubt and letting them live for another night, but if you are scum and about to get lynched then you can only benefit from fake claiming, so they become less and less valid as time goes on. And HD not being killed might have also been something to take note of - while dead I figured out that if Beli was scum then they would know that HD could not be an SK and thus would not be a guaranteed kill as was being discussed at the time. If I had still been alive I would have come down hard on Beli, so I suppose it was a good thing for scum that I was not alive.

Well anyway, despite the hiccups, it was a good game. And well modded too - thanks Gamma.

[Human Destroyer]

...

*shuffles awkwardly out the door*

I'm tempted to blacklist Safety, that was borderline playing against his win con.

I probably won't though because I'm too kind.

[Apozzle]

I do not believe that Safety was playing contrary to his win condition. I think he tried to perform a truly awful gambit and failed in a spectacular fashion. I have no intention of holding that against him.

[Thurhame]

^this

Everyone makes mistakes. As long as he learns from it, it's fine.

[Cheery Dog]

Putting that aside now, yeah CD, you played almost exactly like MM, which was half the reason my actual investigation was on you. I did wonder when you bussed Beli in lylo if anyone read that game.

I think how I was somehow succeeding there did influence this game and that did probably make you a bigger threat, and maybe it was somewhere in why I wanted to kill you night 2, but it was mostly to give extra towncred to Beli's claim that scum were killing off his innocent and blocking him.
I don't think I really considered you as having the final PR, probably because at the time I was going kill kill kill.
Then I realised that NS should actually confirm town with beli "blocked" and me killing.
And then during the next night after you claimed I figured you were confirmed town anyway. (but also that HD would kill you for us)

[SafetyDance]

...Thanks.

Oh, and thanks for modding it Gamma. I'm glad you didn't do flavor for d3 lynch >.<