Newbie 1361: The Ninja Council (Game Over)

[JasonWazza]

Vote Count 1.5

L-1

[4] NicCage: NicCage, Nachomamma8, leviathan93, mrbungle,
[2] Mr Bungle: Pirate Mollie, FLLhawk,

Not Voting: gene1991, borno, David Jones,

Deadline: (expired on 2013-05-06 16:20:13)

[pirate mollie]

nacho are you ready to bus your scummate yes or no

I mean he is being really obvious

is there anyone you think is scum other than myself?

do you think nacho is scum for reasons that aren't based on unflipped association cases?

would you mind playing to your win-con? cos i'm town. i'm think that you are town. even if you think i;'m scum there is absolutely no reason why you should disregard everything that happens from now until the lynch

plus i'm not going to get lynched lol so you're just gonna have to stop repeating yourself. even if you think i'm scum, you shoudl still be able to find at least 1 more person you find scummy, no?

don't ruin my thing

[mrbungle]

fucking hell

[pirate mollie]

you will learn to love me

[mrbungle]

when you learn 2 mafia

[pirate mollie]

look

you love me already

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHYOXyy1ToI

[mrbungle]

are you opposed to the nic cage lynch?

[pirate mollie]

yes

[mrbungle]

you think he's town?

[borno]

Sorry for living in a different timezone.
Any who, back from school, post incoming.

[borno]

Alright, here are my reads.

Mr Bungle:

Mostly null, leaning a little scummy. Active player, however, something seems off in his posts.

pirate mollie:

Leaning town. Has been solid in her posts and is active.

Nic cage:

Mostly Null. Lurky, but has justified this. Hasn't posted many reads.

FLLhawk:

Towny. Is solid, active and justifies his actions well.

Leviathan93:

Leaning scummy. Doesn't really post often, posts lack content.
I know I've missed a couple of people, I just had a mindblank in the middle of my post.

[borno]

EBWODP:

Here are the people I missed.

gene1991:

Leaning town. Gut feeling says town. Pretty solid.

David Jones:

Leaning town. Solid in the few posts he's made.

[borno]

Sorry for the low content, I was making a my reads when I had a mind-blank and forgot my case.

[pirate mollie]

what do you think of nacho, borno?

[FLLhawk]

borno, you have mrbungle and leviathan as varying degrees of scummy. Why haven't you voted for one of them?

[David Jones]

sry guys ...the time i'm active and you guys are active doesn't seem to coincide also i have a lot of work irl

anyway as i've read through i saw some of you mentioned my lack of many post and MrBungles wanted to know i would vote for
....but thats how i play....i prefer quality over quantity......i mean there are 20+ days so atleast i would have taken 5 days to get some solid reads from everyone
but if you guys wanna rush things it'll only be disadvantageous to us town
even if we have a strong scum feel on anyone ,then not lynching them and let them keep talking we could find the other scum or see who comes to defend him

well since Mr.Bungles wanted my vote and better reads i'll provide them here
VOTE: mrbungles

reasons:

you have posted a lot but from all of that post only a few are actually useful....i mean there are like 1 line posts which isn't even relevant and then there are paragraphs of mundane things or things that can be efficiently conveyed in lines or so....and these are excluding the annoying selfvote and monologue

then you have gone from one person to another pointing fingers at them being scum with little or new reason ,...then voted them then unvoted then voted someone less easy or already in the majority

you whole activity in this game:-
-you voted for Pirate who initially seemed scummy then he came up with a strong come back,..argued with him for a while in vain ,realized couldn't win called him town,
-voted brono to make him talk didn't work out
-a little self vote monologue
-cleared gene bcos he is a newbie and acted paranoid
-accused FFLHawk for a while but not really voting for him iirc
-voted for nic bcos no posts from him
-then completely think levi is scum,said stuffs like reeks of scum guilt , even asked pirate and FFLhawk to push levi's vote , didn't workout again
-levi comes and vots nic and so does Naccho
-suddenly you take levi's word for it ,accepts its his play style and vote nic to get him closer to majority

come on seriously either you are the dumbest mafia or the worst town
town player dont eagerly go to lynch like random... they observe who they suspect to get more information on possible other scum
also town player try to get others to vote for the same person ....if what i'm saying is true and acceptable then automatically others will follow
only mafia have to push their agenda and try to manipulate the town

[mrbungle]

"only mafia have to push their agenda and try to manipulate the town"

this is one of the dumbest things in this thread so far and that's saying a lot

you do realize that town have an agenda? and that town's agenda is to lynch scum? and that in order to lynch scum, you have to get scumreads? and that in order to get scumreads, you cant just sit on your ass all game long?

you just posted a summary of my filter without saying why any of those things are scummy. i'll walk you through an example

the case on pirate:

I made a case against a scumread. sure it was a weak case, but i don't fucking care because you gotta start somewhere on D1. Then I tunneled the crap out of her for awhile. Is this because I was absolutely sure that I wanted to lynch her? No! Is it because that's how I develop reads, by giving a shit and interacting with players to figure out their mindset? Yes! I reached the end of the tunnel, and decided she was town! Mission success!

And somehow that's a scummy thing to do?

Most of your other criticisms come from a similar place. They all rely on the fact that you have no idea how to find scum so you see me looking for scum, and it looks scummy to you. This goes for pretty much all of you guys that suspect me for various reasons. I'm sorry, you have your slower ways of scumhunting which take 2 weeks to play out, I have my aggressive ways. I am not going to change just because you guys think it's scummy.

BTW I think borno is an AMAZING LYNCH

1. to punish him for not playing
2. His most recent list of reads

Those reads are AWFUL. Who are the two main lynch candidates right now? mrbungle and nic cage. And look at how he reads them:

mrbungle:
"Mostly null, leaning a little scummy. Active player, however, something seems off in his posts."
nic cage:
"Mostly Null. Lurky, but has justified this. Hasn't posted many reads."

Really? He's null on the two players that everyone else seems to care the most about. Like, I dont know how he could possibly do a better job of having non-controversial opinions.

And he gives absolutely NO hint of who he wants to lynch. There's not even the slightest whiff of evidence that he cares about the lynch.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: borno

I still support the nic cage lynch, but I'd really like to see him get lynched without him self-voting. And this most recent read dump from borno is just too ridiculous to ignore.

[NicCage]

Sorry about being unhelpful, chances are I'm not going to be incredibly useful until next week, but I'll be paying a lot more attention then I was.

First of all, why ask me to unvote mrbungle? You're just as capable of not voting me if you don't want me at L-1.

And to answer FLLhawk's question, very little thoughts. I don't think my self-vote was extremely useful, though there are a couple things that I noticed. Namely levi giving rather wordy explanations of my self vote, even though it didn't really mean anything. Considering mrbungle asked him about it, I don't think this is particularly scummy.
I do not like levi's big list of reads though, like mrbungle said, it's extremely easy for scum to hide behind big lists of town reads and pretend like they're contributing. I don't have a problem with the way he voted me.
I don't particularly like the way pirate mollie reacted to mrbungle's case. It could be chalked up to playstyle though, not sure. Pirate mollie, do you really think mrbungle is scum based on his case against you?
Something else that bothered me was FLLhawk and mrbungle's argument over bungle's gene read. It seemed like FLLhawk was concerned over a very minor point, especially since I can see where bungle was coming from, though he isn't exactly right. What this looks like to me is an attempt by FLLhawk to push mrbungle by picking at this unimportant point. However, since mrbungle encouraged the conversation it sort of muddies the waters.

mrbungle strikes me as town so far, his early case was weak, but it always looked to me like he was trying to get the game moving. Don't dick around because you're bored though, that never helps anything.

I think I already know the answer, but why the vote Nacho?
Levi, what do you think of FLLhawk's argument over mrbungle's gene townread?

[NicCage]

oh yeah UNVOTE:

[mrbungle]

nic, your thoughts on david jones? he's the person I'm having the most trouble reading, besides nacho

[David Jones]

"only mafia have to push their agenda and try to manipulate the town"

this is one of the dumbest things in this thread so far and that's saying a lot

you do realize that town have an agenda? and that town's agenda is to lynch scum? and that in order to lynch scum, you have to get scumreads? and that in order to get scumreads, you cant just sit on your ass all game long?

you just posted a summary of my filter without saying why any of those things are scummy. i'll walk you through an example

the case on pirate:

I made a case against a scumread. sure it was a weak case, but i don't fucking care because you gotta start somewhere on D1. Then I tunneled the crap out of her for awhile. Is this because I was absolutely sure that I wanted to lynch her? No! Is it because that's how I develop reads, by giving a shit and interacting with players to figure out their mindset? Yes! I reached the end of the tunnel, and decided she was town! Mission success!

And somehow that's a scummy thing to do?

Most of your other criticisms come from a similar place. They all rely on the fact that you have no idea how to find scum so you see me looking for scum, and it looks scummy to you. This goes for pretty much all of you guys that suspect me for various reasons. I'm sorry, you have your slower ways of scumhunting which take 2 weeks to play out, I have my aggressive ways. I am not going to change just because you guys think it's scummy.

BTW I think borno is an AMAZING LYNCH

1. to punish him for not playing
2. His most recent list of reads

Those reads are AWFUL. Who are the two main lynch candidates right now? mrbungle and nic cage. And look at how he reads them:

mrbungle:
"Mostly null, leaning a little scummy. Active player, however, something seems off in his posts."
nic cage:
"Mostly Null. Lurky, but has justified this. Hasn't posted many reads."

Really? He's null on the two players that everyone else seems to care the most about. Like, I dont know how he could possibly do a better job of having non-controversial opinions.

And he gives absolutely NO hint of who he wants to lynch. There's not even the slightest whiff of evidence that he cares about the lynch.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: borno

I still support the nic cage lynch, but I'd really like to see him get lynched without him self-voting. And this most recent read dump from borno is just too ridiculous to ignore.

i'll again say it "only mafia have to push their agenda and manipulate the town" --i dont see how it is dumb

as town people we have to figure out who are scum but we dont have the luxury to push it as an agenda like the scum and we dont have to manipulate the other town
if you think someone is scum and if you are right then all you have to do is expose their flaw and make others realize that player is odd....after that even without manipulating or asking others to vote for the player ....others will follow you

i posted your activity summary bcos of the way you went about doing those things .... you were active for the sake of being active ..you voted for every players and ended up no better than you were before voting them which in my opinion you were doing all this to make others think you are scum hunting but in reality you were just pretending and creating more confusion than get reads

honestly tell me what your view on each player before and after you confronted and voted them... it didnt change other than for pirate iirc

[mrbungle]

@nic nvm, I just did a re-read of his filter and I think he's town. he just views the game entirely differently than I do so that's why I don't like his posts. I would like your read on him nonetheless.

I very much liked your recent post. Particulary your criticisms of FFLhawk who I had dubbed town early on and never really reevaluated that read. And the stuff you mentioned about our argument over gene was something that was going through my head while the conversation was happening. I didn't feel like the argument was particulary constructive and I couldn't/can't figure out why he was so motivated to pick apart a random town read I gave. The whole thing felt like he was more concerned with arguing with me rather than having a useful conversation about gene's alignment. I also don't like how he's been singularly focused on me all game. He participated in the self voting discussion, but that is not very alignment indicative. He got into it with gene about no-lynching, but that wasn't an alignment indicative conversation either. The only other instance (apart from talking to me) where he's intereacted with the thread was his questioning of borno, but I don't really give him town points for that. Borno's post was objectively bad so someone from any alignment would feel the need to question it.

FLLhawk, what is your read on nic cage?

[NicCage]

He's null to me. Post #47's point 1 is just sheeping the opinion that others have already stated in the game, but point 2 is interesting though it isn't strong scumhunting.
His read on you starting in #99 looks like his suspicion on you starts with you dicking around, which could easily be a newb town reaction.

He's difficult to read though, I'd like to hear more explanation of his case on you and why he thinks those things are scummy.

-you voted for Pirate who initially seemed scummy then he came up with a strong come back,..argued with him for a while in vain ,realized couldn't win called him town,
-voted brono to make him talk didn't work out
-a little self vote monologue
-cleared gene bcos he is a newbie and acted paranoid
-accused FFLHawk for a while but not really voting for him iirc
-voted for nic bcos no posts from him
-then completely think levi is scum,said stuffs like reeks of scum guilt , even asked pirate and FFLhawk to push levi's vote , didn't workout again
-levi comes and vots nic and so does Naccho
-suddenly you take levi's word for it ,accepts its his play style and vote nic to get him closer to majority

David, if you thought that pirate mollie looked scummy at the beginning of the game, does that mean that you initially thought mrbungle's case was onto something?
Do you think there is a problem with mrbungle's first vote on me?
Why would mrbungle ask me to unvote if his goal was to get me closer to majority?

Also mrbungle, if you could answer why you wanted me to unvote rather than doing it yourself.

ninja'd, refusing to read before posting

[mrbungle]

i posted your activity summary bcos of the way you went about doing those things .... you were active for the sake of being active ..you voted for every players and ended up no better than you were before voting them which in my opinion you were doing all this to make others think you are scum hunting but in reality you were just pretending and creating more confusion than get reads

honestly tell me what your view on each player before and after you confronted and voted them... it didnt change other than for pirate iirc

Then you're misinterpreting a lot of what I'm doing. Sometimes when I question or tunnel a player, I'm not actually trying to convince anyone to lynch them. I'm doing it so that I can get a read on them. You may not like how crazy and emotional it gets every now and then, but sometimes people need to be pushed to their emotional limit so that their true motivations shine through. So once again... all the posturing and grand-standing is not always an attempt to get other people to agree with me. It's often an attempt to incite a true and heart-felt response from someone so that I can get a better idea of what they really think and what their motivations are.

As to your question, you're gonna have to ask specific players about specific changes of reads. If I were to just list them all in one post that'd take at least an hour or two to write.

[mrbungle]

Also mrbungle, if you could answer why you wanted me to unvote rather than doing it yourself.

ninja'd, refusing to read before posting

I did unvote you and I voted borno. Part of that is me wanting to lynch borno and part of that is me wanting to unvote you.