Newbie 1361: The Ninja Council (Game Over)

[Remembrance]

As far as confidence goes:

I don't think I addressed them lol

Look; I feel both Delta and Limo are town based on how they act they have a townish confidence about them; there isn't anything I can point to to show they are town, there just isn't this is just me reading people.

I will try and explin this better; town often feel invincible, they feel they have more authority than as scum etc, especially as newer players.

Now advice for everyone; Just because someone voted DJ yesterday it doesn't mean they are town and similarly just because someone didn't vote DJ yesterday doesn't make them scum. It does not really matter how often someone is wrong as long as you think they genuinely believe their reads (if they don't they are scum so thats wht you should be looking at not the end result)

KBW is by far the best lynch today.

He was of course, wrong about Delta (woops) but he has also been playing Mafia for two years and caught two scum in this game I was in. It was pretty impressive. I'm a pretty new player and I listen to advice when given it. It's just something I look for.

[Remembrance]

Don't avoid the first question: Are you scum, Gene?

[mrbungle]

@Gene:

1. Are scum?
2. If you are not scum, who is scum?
3. Who in particular, would you like more information on, if you could have it?

Well I kind of already answered this is my post 239.
The only only thing that's changed is that you replaced the one I wanted to lynch. And now I get a totally different read on you than I did borno. and I don't get a maf vibe from you so far.

So, since Nacho was the other one I suspected, VOTE: Nacho

I also didn't have much to say about FLLhawk before, but after rereading and such, I'm leaning towards thinking he could be nacho's partner.

As far as more information, there's not any particular questions that I want answered. but certainly if nacho and FLLhawk would just contribute more in any way it would give me more to go on.

could you give info about your read on fllhawk?

[FLLhawk]

@gene

and I don't get a maf vibe from you so far.

It's the same slot, so why don't you get a mafia vibe from him?

I also didn't have much to say about FLLhawk before, but after rereading and such, I'm leaning towards thinking he could be nacho's partner.

Can you articulate any reasons?

Forgot to include, I still don't want to lynch NicCage, all because of the self-vote thing.

We have quite a bit of material to work with at this stage in the game. You don't want to lynch Nic because of his self-vote? How do you feel about his play since?


@mrbungle

currently mulling over fllhawk, levi, and nic. them's be who i most desire to see hanged (in order of said desire from most to almost most)

i have decided to not care about nacho's alignment until d2

Why not? As recent as post 225 you had him as your scummiest read.

[mrbungle]

for reasons that would be pointless to talk about in-thread

[mrbungle]

@gene

and I don't get a maf vibe from you so far.

It's the same slot, so why don't you get a mafia vibe from him?

is this a serious question? like.... where could you possibly go with this?

imo that's the most useless/ridiculous question that's been asked so far.

[FLLhawk]

is this a serious question? like.... where could you possibly go with this?

imo that's the most useless/ridiculous question that's been asked so far.

Why? Gene didn't articulate why he gets a town vibe from Remembrance. Since that slot was a scum lean for him before, I'd like to hear him tell me why it's now a town lean. Quite possibly it's a straightforward explanation, but I'd like for him to give it.

[mrbungle]

see fllhawk this is what i was talking about earlier when I said you pick and choose your discussions as to not get you into trouble. i cannot for the life of me figure out how it would occur to a townie to ask that question. it doesn't make a bit of sense. i see no possible scumhunting motivation behind that question

In this post:

I almost would rather lynch borno than see him replaced, just because it sounds simpler

Disagree on a borno lynch before replacement because we haven't gotten any information out of that slot. I'm fine if people want to stack some votes on him so his replacement comes in with some heat and has motivation to jump in.

I'm also not really liking hawk.

Why? Who else are you not liking and why?

you yourself acknowledge that the replacement should just be auto-killed. we should give him time to show his alignment, in case he might be town.

but the question you asked gene just completely ignores the fact that borno/replacement might be town. that's some strange hypocrisy you've got there.


FLLHawk:

"no gene, you should be open minded about the replacement. don't insta-lynch him because of your read on borno.
gene, why are you being open minded about the replacement? you aren't allowed to form a new read because of your read on borno"

[mrbungle]

is this a serious question? like.... where could you possibly go with this?

imo that's the most useless/ridiculous question that's been asked so far.

Why? Gene didn't articulate why he gets a town vibe from Remembrance. Since that slot was a scum lean for him before, I'd like to hear him tell me why it's now a town lean. Quite possibly it's a straightforward explanation, but I'd like for him to give it.

That is NOT how the question was phrased. You started it with "since it's the same slot" implying that gene should transfer all of his feeling about borno onto the replacement and that there's no room for him to formulate a new read.

Your explanation I quoted DOES make sense. But that was NOT how you phrased the original question.

When I read the question it felt like you were mad that gene had changed his mind.

[mrbungle]

edwop to two posts back:

"you yourself acknowledge that the replacement should just be auto-killed. we should give him time to show his alignment, in case he might be town."

should read as

"you yourself acknowledge that the replacement

shouldn't

just be auto-killed. we should give him time to show his alignment, in case he might be town."

[FLLhawk]

you yourself acknowledge that the replacement should just be auto-killed. we should give him time to show his alignment, in case he might be town.

but the question you asked gene just completely ignores the fact that borno/replacement might be town. that's some strange hypocrisy you've got there.


FLLHawk:

"no gene, you should be open minded about the replacement. don't insta-lynch him because of your read on borno.
gene, why are you being open minded about the replacement? you aren't allowed to form a new read because of your read on borno"

WTF are you talking about?

According to gene borno = scum. Borno is replaced. Borno's replacement gives gene a town read, but gene does not tell us why. I want to know why because I want to know more about gene. I do not see the hypocrisy.

I am in no way arguing that Remembrance is still scummy or should be autokilled. I just want to hear gene's reasoning. Is that so hard to understand?

[mrbungle]

eh

"It's the same slot, so why don't you get a mafia vibe from him?"

To me, that read as "since you thought borno was scum, don't you have to automatically think that the replacement is scum?"

and NOT as "why do you have a town read on the replacement?"

But whatever, idc anymore. This is yet another pointless argument that either comes down to a colossal miscommunication between two townies or one of us being mafia.

i think it's the latter:

VOTE: fllhawk

You're gonna have to really convince me that you actually care about this lynch. You've put very minimal effort into pushing your lynches so far.

Care to try and convince me to vote for nic cage?

[FLLhawk]

You're gonna have to really convince me that you actually care about this lynch. You've put very minimal effort into pushing your lynches so far.

Care to try and convince me to vote for nic cage?

Are you kidding? I made my stance quite clear earlier. He still can't articulate a reason as to why he thinks I am scummy. He finally makes a vote (first since RVS!) for Levi and follows it with a little one stence blurb basically parrots what others have said. Nothing since. In his other games he doesn't seem to have a problem forming a solid opinion and backing it with his vote.

I am now off to the airport.

@all (especially JasonWazza): I am VLA tomorrow and Sunday. I will try to drop in and give some posts this weekend, but I can't guarantee.

[pirate mollie]

UNVOTE: niccage

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho this game is not going to be nearly as obvious as the last one was. I saw earlier that you picked out FLLhawk's point about mrbungle's scumread on gene, and now you're saying you don't like him. Is this a part of your read on him?

Why isn't this game going to be as obvious as the last one?

What makes you say this is going to be fun?

I see you posturing for stepping up your game, which means that we should have a grand party together.

then this ought to be easy. are you going to try to nk me again?

I'll leave my love alive until the end.

surely myself, nacho, and nick can't all be scum?

What is the problem with someone having three suspects...?

I don't have much on Nacho, I'm afraid to say. Not much of anything to work with.

You can give me more than this.

[gene1991]

Don't avoid the first question: Are you scum, Gene?

I thought that was a rhetorical question. and I still do. I mean, am I supposed to go -straightface- "No, I am not." You may think asking that question will somehow help you get a read on me, or whoever you ask it to. But it really doesn't.
In fact, it's even possibly being counter-productive since asking this question with seriousness actually throws me off. Now as a town person, I feel worried about how I answer this question without seeming like maf. which is not a position town should be placed in because people will read them as maf when they're actually not. And as for asking the question to mafia, all maf is going to be thinking of is how to answer the question while seeming town, which is not hard, all they have to say is "nope" or w/e. too easy for maf to answer. It's a counter-productive question.

could you give info about your read on fllhawk?

Hm, it's basically this:

see fllhawk this is what i was talking about earlier when I said you pick and choose your discussions as to not get you into trouble. i cannot for the life of me figure out how it would occur to a townie to ask that question. it doesn't make a bit of sense. i see no possible scumhunting motivation behind that question

As I would phrase it: he asks questions for the sake of asking questions. His questions don't see to be scumhunting. He seems to be asking questions to try to seem like town, or to try to seem like he's participating, but clearing he isn't truly seeking out the answer, because he already knows who is town and who is maf.
(I phrased that strongly. I'm actually not that confident he's maf already)

It's the same slot, so why don't you get a mafia vibe from him?

I don't think I ever really got a maf vibe from borno either. I mainly just wanted to lynch him because he wasn't contributing anything to the game. He didn't seem like he wanted to play. as evident by asking to be replaced. and now his replacement is actually playing the game, and is seeming like town to me.

This is what I said back when I voted for borno:

Now borno is someone I feel like has contributed absolutely nothing whatsoever. without even a promise of contributing more. He did mention it's his first game, but it's my first game too, and I'm still actively engaged and trying to put my thoughts out there.

So, I'm going to go ahead and VOTE: BORNO

[gene1991]

We have quite a bit of material to work with at this stage in the game. You don't want to lynch Nic because of his self-vote? How do you feel about his play since?

Hmm, possibly this is the most scummiest thing NicCage has said:

From rereading parts today, I think that Levi and FLLhawk are the scummiest players in the game. VOTE: levi All you've done is post reads, make a couple comments, and basically say that you're going to lurk until you find the "correct candidate". That is not a town mindset.

FLLhawk, you voted me at first for lacking content, and now for fence-sitting, but you haven't expressed any suspicion of levi. Why are you unconcerned with his lack of scumhunting?

I like to try to think about mafia also in turns of who their partners could be. Since I already suspect Nacho + Hawk, if I were to assume NicCage was maf, I would assume his partner would be hawk, because he says here that "Levi and FLLhawk are the scummiest players in the game" and then votes Levi. He didn't even saud why he found Levi scummy enough to vote for and not hawk. If Hawk was his partner, he would say he thought he was scummy to bus him, but then not actually vote for him.


But if you think about how NicCage seriously almost got lynched because of his self-vote, and even when he knew people were voting for him, he was so slow to remove his self-vote. That's either not mafia, or a town who is disinterested.

I also didn't have much to say about FLLhawk before, but after rereading and such, I'm leaning towards thinking he could be nacho's partner.

Can you articulate any reasons?

Hm, I thought about answering this. I typed up a response. but then I thought that I was basically telling you what it is you're doing that makes you seem like you're both maf and both partners. and so if you are maf, I feel like I'd be helping you. because it's early enough in the game you would have the opportunity to change your play for the rest of the game. idk if that makes sense. basically I feel like answering this is giving pointers to the maf for how to be better maf.
I guess I'll answer this question if someone else asks me it, but I kinda think a few other townies here might be able to tell what I'm talking about.

Forgot to include, I still don't want to lynch NicCage, all because of the self-vote thing.

We have quite a bit of material to work with at this stage in the game. You don't want to lynch Nic because of his self-vote? How do you feel about his play since?

Lets look at his self-vote post again.

No VOTE: NicCage

That's too bad, I was looking forward to playing with nacho again

He said no he wasn't town, and voted for himself. Then he said he's looking forward to playing with nacho again, the one who many of us think is scummy now.
So if Nic was mafia and nacho was his partner, this whole post would be just ruining the rest of the game for him. So mafia would just never make a post like this. And that, to me, is so stronger, that the rest of the discussion up until now hasn't changed my mind about that.

However, if I were to ignore that post as though it didn't exist.... well he definitely asks some questions that don't seem like from town's POV, but then he also says some things that make him seem just like a new player.

[mrbungle]

@nacho

"What is the problem with someone having three suspects...?"

Having 3 suspects wasn't the problem. If you couldn't tell my post was very sarcastic. I think at this point pirate has realized that I'm town but she's going to keep shitting up the thread with me because it's.... fun or something, idk. It's sorta my fault because I am trolling back.

I was pointing out to her how she was forming scum reads through inane association cases. Basically it went like this:

bungle is scum + nacho lurking + bungle not calling out nacho early game = bungle and nacho are obviously scumbuds and there's no need to reevaluate anything any time soon

Then she voted for nic cage while quoting your "I'm already bussing" post. It wasn't that she had 3 scumreads, it's that she was building association cases using more than 3 people as scum.

I know I've oversimplified her position. And since all that happened she's given a reason for why she voted nic so I don't have an issue with it anymore. That reason ended up being nothing close to what I thought she was thinking and I don't really have a problem with her actual reason for voting nic, even though I thought it was a bit lazy.

[Nachomamma8]

If you ignore that pirate mollie is saying that nacho isn't involved because he doesn't want to get picked out, it looks bad because he isn't scumhunting and we all know he can. If it makes you feel any better, I almost wrote your name down but didn't feel like doing any more explaining yesterday. This is because I am having a hard time pinning down what exactly it is that makes me suspicious of you.

From rereading parts today, I think that Levi and FLLhawk are the scummiest players in the game. VOTE: levi All you've done is post reads, make a couple comments, and basically say that you're going to lurk until you find the "correct candidate". That is not a town mindset.

I also thought you were posturing to go after me, but it seems you stepped away from that.

FLLhawk, you voted me at first for lacking content, and now for fence-sitting, but you haven't expressed any suspicion of levi. Why are you unconcerned with his lack of scumhunting?

And you suspect FLLhawk for not suspecting levi?

I've been given advice that when someone is super experienced, you should probably just let them live for the first day, see what it gets you, ask them stuff and work with them and then turn against them later in the game if they aren't jiving with what your expectations of them are.

The earlier you get started with reading someone, the better you get at it. Otherwise you end up settling into a point where you find if it's "okay" to lynch someone or not and that means that most people will steamroll you by then.

I thought that was a rhetorical question. and I still do. I mean, am I supposed to go -straightface- "No, I am not." You may think asking that question will somehow help you get a read on me, or whoever you ask it to. But it really doesn't.
In fact, it's even possibly being counter-productive since asking this question with seriousness actually throws me off. Now as a town person, I feel worried about how I answer this question without seeming like maf. which is not a position town should be placed in because people will read them as maf when they're actually not. And as for asking the question to mafia, all maf is going to be thinking of is how to answer the question while seeming town, which is not hard, all they have to say is "nope" or w/e. too easy for maf to answer. It's a counter-productive question.

But here you are answering the question like this because the question frustrates you, and that's already plenty of information, don't you think?

That's either not mafia, or a town who is disinterested.

?

[mrbungle]

hey gene. why are you voting for nacho? is it only because of his activity or is he your strongest scumread for other reasons? if you ignore activity, is he the scummiest player? you mentioned that you wanted to lynch born not because you were convinced that he was mafia, but because you didn't like his participation levels. that's pretty odd... you should be trying to lynch mafia first and foremost.

i agree with you in that I loathe his participation in and contributions to the game thus far. the only problem is that i'm not sure that those things are very alignment indicative in his case. he's been pressured to care, and he hasn't really responded to the pressure at all. I would expect mafia to at least pretend to care. I think he will show his true colors as the game progresses and that we shouldn't lynch him D1 just because of activity reasons.

currently, i think he looks like a townie who doesn't give a shit

[pirate mollie]

lol, did you just day that nacho doesn't give a shit?

LOL

VOTE: bunglebonehead

[Nachomamma8]

god damnit.

[mrbungle]

lol, did you just day that nacho doesn't give a shit?

LOL

VOTE: bunglebonehead

you do know that the point of the game is to lynch scum?

not get angry and lynch whoever you hate the most?

[mrbungle]

anyways I think we should flip both nic cage and fllhawk. i'd rather flip fllhawk first but i wont sweat a nic lynch

****note to self******

nk pirate mollie because she is so good at reading my alignment.

[mrbungle]

hey PM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7SQ2Wu6 ... be&t=4m19s