Newbie 1351: Hyrule's Under Attack.. Interesting..-GAME OVER

[VisceraEyes]

He seemed to milk the newb card quite a bit just from memory.

[Eye Urn]

Not enough time to devote as much to this game. Not surprised to stir up hostile feelings towards me, as that was the entire point. Do any of you truly believe that any of what I did was indicative of alignment? Or do you think you're just voting for the person who's least likely to be helping Town later? I made it very clear that I was intentionally not providing a reason and that you would have to find one. Why would I intentionally point out something I was doing that would garner people not liking my play if I was scum? There's no jester role available. If I was scum and wanted to lynch scum for towncred it's kinda stupid to choose myself. So why, why indeed? Nah, don't bother thinking about it, just assume I'm not being helpful and that by my own admission that means I deserve to be lynched.

How many times do I need to say that GM quite intentionally and quite obviously decided to ask me for more information about a post that she didn't even read. No one has asked for other indications of this type of behavior, and I probably don't have time to find them now so maybe you can do your own investigations if you care enough. I really don't care about her motivation for it. It's laziness, and I hate it.

Voting for AA9 because of, um, I forget. Seriously, do I need to repeat myself? It's still all here in the thread. It hasn't changed. It should be becoming more clear. Do your own damn thinking, I don't have time to do it for you. And I moved it off GM because it seemed more likely to happen. I'll switch it back in the future if it'll help.

Also, just go ahead and hammer me if you'd otherwise state intent. I've got nothing to say that could defend myself, as it's all self-inflicted.

[fferyllt]

Eye, we're still trying to figure this lynch out. VE and I have been taking a thorough look at the Alexis/AA9 slot. Any thoughts about what we have dug up so far?

[GuyInFreezer]

Who is ctusz? He only posted once and like gone.

[Deras]

Who is ctusz? He only posted once and like gone.

Random newb who wanted to join the game

[fferyllt]

I reread Revenus and I just can't see that slot as scum.

GiF I'm really curious to see your reads.

[VisceraEyes]

Same. Plz.

[goodmorning]

Do any of you truly believe that any of what I did was indicative of alignment?

This sentence stands out to me as VERY interesting. Surprised nobody else saw it.

[fferyllt]

In the context of that paragraph, not exactly a smoking gun.

[VisceraEyes]

I saw the whole thing. He also said something along the lines of "I don't even remember why I'm suspicious of ArcAngel". I've resigned to the fact that Eye isn't helping us regardless of his alignment.

[goodmorning]

@ff: For me, that whole first paragraph looks like a smoking gun. But I recognize that not everyone reads like I do, so I pointed out that sentence in particular as it is the one that gave me the most pause.

[fferyllt]

What do you think about the AlexTay/AA9 slot, VE?

[VisceraEyes]

@ff: I am highly used to trying to outguess playstyles as a mod and also as a player, and so

I'm trying to be a good townie by contributing to discussion directly rather than doing "summary posts" like i have been doing so far.

Like what I'm doing now. I'm really trying to get used to the pace of online mafia, where responses aren't immediate.

Like, never in my mafia career, even as a raw newbie, have I EVER considered using the phrase "I'm trying to be a good townie". It's just a foreign concept to me - he's not really under suspicion or anything at this point that I can tell, so it comes across as sounding inherently guilty if anything.

Post 133: Townfeel Ranking. So, PoE then. Fine. And frankly this is consistent with the rest of his posting too - throughout his filter he seems mostly interested in pointing out the townie actions of others. Let's look at his "rankings".

Townfeel ranking

Fro > Eye > ffery > Deras > Rev = Mac > GM , Carey

Fropome (Most Town)

I see genuine attempts at bringing his case for his past game experience and the way he received his responses. His direct answers to GM's subtle attack at his overreaction strengthen my townfeel for him(see post 76). In particular, his response to me in post 42 suggests that he is trying to contribute by mentioning something slightly different. The back and forth that keeps taking place between him and GM suggest to me that GM is either trying to take advantage of Fro's unorthodox points about lynching scum/lurkers and rather quick reactions (which indeed can be misrepresented as defensive behaviour), or that there's a bus driving past. More on this below.

Eye Urn (Very Town)

I see his vehement attempts to chase after lurkers as a sign of townie play. He first went after Deras, who hasn't contributed much but had a knee-jerk reaction to Rev's vote. I interpret his WIFOM about Deras "trying to deflect pressure however he can" (see post 68) as a way to pile on pressure, as he also does for Carey, who incidentally already has a bad stink going around. I see pretty consistent behaviour from him so far, so a strong townfeel.

fferylit (Very Town)

I see a very consistent theme hanging around about making alignment indicative posts, right from the first off-hand townfeel GM gave her. However, I also see her paying a lot of attention to GM and Fro. And while she has done ISO and does talk about lurkers, I see that just like GM, she's not giving a lot of pressure to heavy and recalcitrant lurkers esp Carey, who at least as far as my newbie opinion goes, shouldn't be behaving as such in this game. I, however, feel that this may be her having anticipated such play from said players, being more experienced, so the overall read is also very town.

And yes, I would say it is to let you guys anticipate that I sometimes use the whole conspiracy theory to try and associate people. This tends to happen when you want to design setups that are as fool proof as possible, you want to anticipate how people will try to buddy or bus and how that relates to the setup. I think it is a different way to play and I am trying it out, since it has worked in the cases where I see it being used in RL games. If experience tells you guys its bad play, I welcome you guys to show me.

Deras (Leaning Town)

Although content wise I see little contribution and considering the early lurking-like behaviour, I see his attempt to contribute and his acknowledgement that his behaviour has been objectively bad as a sign of town behavior. Keeping a close eye on him.

Revenus (Leaning Town)

Rev has not posted much other than to put pressure on Deras and Carey. He suspecting Deras is objective, but considering the difference in experience levels, there seems to be undue focus, especially since Deras has attempted to contribute while Carey is simply not doing so, and he hasn't commented much on others. I look around and it appears that there is some history about his behaviour in other games, (45), so he "being in a good mood" may explain a little. His attention appears to be focused on only the lurkers and maybe a bit on fferylit's ISO of GM. Nothing else strongly indicative other than that, so I get a weak townfeel. More reads from him may help.

Mac (Neutral)

Mac has only two posts which provided very brief reads, I have null. I must say, replacing in must be hard, with all that catching up to do.

GM (Manipulative Scummy)

In her posts I see a very selective appeal to reasoning, as Fro's behaviour does not really justify him being voted over Carey. Moreover, when Eye Urn attempted to resolve a possible misunderstanding, she did not respond in time, leading me to suspect that she's deliberately playing on Fro's rather newbie posts. Too focused on the behaviour on one person and not paying attention to another. The back and forth that took place between her and Fro also does not help her case. A very strong association between her and Fro, and fferylit is hot on their tail, and GM's rather flimsy reasoning leads me to believe there's a lot happening there. GM's playing real hard on the manipulation.

Carey (Foolhardy Scummy)

Carey has not posted anything useful, period. His strange attempts to dismiss others also comes across as really foolhardy to me, not making sense both as scum or town. If he does not give a good post the next time we see him, I will put my vote on him.

It's hard for me to pin down whether GM or Carey is "scummier", they're different kinds of scummy IMO.

The thing about this list is this: he only has 2 scumreads, the rest are townreads (with the exception of Mac who is null)...so why go to the effort of calling it a "townfeel ranking" anyway? He's apparently got the game figured out doesn't he? Through process of elimination? It just feels like a charade phrased like that. Fake. Like he's trying to fit in.

I've changed my mind. I'm now leaning scummy on that slot. And this changes the dynamic of the lynch for me.

[GuyInFreezer]

So far, I have fferyllt and VE as strong town.
EU looked ok at first, but later posts quickly devolves.
AA9 is playing like textbook scum. The only thing that bothers me is that she did that on every games that I played with her.
Z7 is leaning town. I don't know how ppl scumread him.
Deras/Mac/GM is null (or rather, didn't focus on them quite yet. I like focusing one person at a time, but time doesn't let me do so.)

[fferyllt]

It's a source of puzzlement to me. What sets my alarms off almost never matches up well with what other people find scummy about a player. The logic chains usually make sense, but I almost always have found a different loose thread.

So yeah. Would be happy (once again) with an AA9 lynch today.

[fferyllt]

Timing and situation.

elaborate plz

He's said it throughout the game

, whereas I confined it to early on.

Did you ever post some "throughout the game" examples of what you are talking about here?

[VisceraEyes]

It's a source of puzzlement to me. What sets my alarms off almost never matches up well with what other people find scummy about a player. The logic chains usually make sense, but I almost always have found a different loose thread.

So yeah. Would be happy (once again) with an AA9 lynch today.

If you disagree with anything or something doesn't make sense now is the time to say something.

[fferyllt]

It's a source of puzzlement to me. What sets my alarms off almost never matches up well with what other people find scummy about a player. The logic chains usually make sense, but I almost always have found a different loose thread.

So yeah. Would be happy (once again) with an AA9 lynch today.

If you disagree with anything or something doesn't make sense now is the time to say something.

No, I don't disagree at all. Like I said, different loose threads, but the logic chains make sense.

[fferyllt]

How many times do I need to say that GM quite intentionally and quite obviously decided to ask me for more information about a post that she didn't even read. No one has asked for other indications of this type of behavior, and I probably don't have time to find them now so maybe you can do your own investigations if you care enough. I really don't care about her motivation for it. It's laziness, and I hate it.

You are right that there have been assertions/questions that she never followed up. Is it laziness? Deciding the lead was a blind alley? Scumminess?

Are you trying to figure out the motivation behind the behavior? It gave me fits during the first week or two of the game.

[VisceraEyes]

So the question becomes: do we stay the course with an Eye lynch or do we switch gears into an Angel lynch? Obviously Angel will want to weigh in, but I suspect she'll just fly off the handle and complain about circle-jerking some more, so I doubt that will be much help. What do you think?

Frankly I could go either way, but there's a preexisting wagon on Eye. :/ What do you think?

[VisceraEyes]

I asked you what you think twice, but you only have to answer once.

[fferyllt]

VOTE COUNT 1.16

[L-5] Z7-852:

[L-5] fferyllt:

[L-5] Deras:

[L-4] ArcAngel9: (Eye Urn)

[L-4] Mac: (fferyllt)

[L-2] Eye Urn: (ArcAngel9, VisceraEyes, goodmorning)

[L-5] VisceraEyes:

[L-5]

Revenus

GuyInFreezer:

[L-3] goodmorning: (Z7-852, Deras)

Not Voting:

2 (GuyInFreezer, Mac)

• With nine alive, it takes five to lynch.
  
• Day One's deadline: April 18, 2013 CST or in (expired on 2013-04-21 20:45:00).
  
• V/LA: No one.
  
• GuyInFreezer replaced Revenus.
  
• Deadline has been extended 72 hours.

I know this is a little out of date, but I wanted to have a look at where my town reads are voting.

If we could get a town core together and in agreement that would rock.

My strongest town reads are Revenus/GiF, VE, and Z7. Deras is not too far behind them.

At this point I'd feel best about lynching AA9, though I'm still pretty swayed by other cases.

Eye Urn is giving off an annoyed/disgusted newbtown vibe, though I'm not sure that given his game persona annoyed/disgusted newbscum would seem all that different.

GM hovers around null with the occasional slight movement to null/slight town and null/slight scum. This worries me. I know some players actually make an effort to float in that range but it's also difficult for many scum players to do better than null/slight town on the Richter scale. with their best efforts.

Mac is closer to town than null right now.

With 3 weeks worth of posts, it's possible to build at least a weak scum case on most town players. Town players don't worry nearly as much about misspeaking as scum do. So, I tend to take a body of work approach - what has the impact of their posts been? From that perspective, active scumhunting/questioning and active interaction with other players will always impress me more than observaiton-heavy WoTs. But availability and time zones are what they are. From that perspective, Revenus' posts, while very townish, do fall behind a little. Z7's too, but that's counter-weighted by heavy interaction from Fropome who had the slot first. AA9 is not big on WoTs but her content is highly reactive. I don't see her often seeking out interactions unless she's trying to get a bandwagon across the finish line. She's reacting mostly to stuff said about her in the game thread.

[fferyllt]

So the question becomes: do we stay the course with an Eye lynch or do we switch gears into an Angel lynch? Obviously Angel will want to weigh in, but I suspect she'll just fly off the handle and complain about circle-jerking some more, so I doubt that will be much help. What do you think?

Frankly I could go either way, but there's a preexisting wagon on Eye. :/ What do you think?

Sorry, was working on a WoT. I'm leaning AA9. GiF could probably sway me in another direction depending on what he comes up with. I'd really like to see a town core form, though. I'm tired of finding myself on wagons with my null and scum reads.

[VisceraEyes]

Well let's do this thing and it should at least serve as a starting point.

##Vote ArcAngel

[GuyInFreezer]

Is there a specific case against AA9 except for overreaction?