Newbie 1356 (OVER)

[freezing-hell]

Don't. He hasn't claimed a role yet, plus I want him to give his last reads on everyone.

[Paid Pyro]

I have the real urge to hammer.

At least ask him to claim. Prior to Hammering.

If he is truly town he's been rather cool about it. Their isn't much survivalistic desperation from him.

[dexter9264]

Hey sorry life's been kinda crazy this week. I'm really sorry, I'll post an actual post in a bit

[dexter9264]

VARSOON

I think that my posts already prove that so far. If I was to make a case for myself being town, it would be a constructed effort, and, therefore, liable to be speculated as scum covering his ass. My case for myself lies in you (and other players) clicking the drop down menu next to the words 'Display Posts by user:', clicking my name, and looking through all of my posts, my interactions with other players, etc, and making an informed decision off of how I have played throughout the whole of the game rather than what I say in one post.

What the heck are you saying? Since we accused you of being scum, you can't defend yourself because that makes you look more scummy? Sounds to me like you just cant think of a good defense.

The most? Right now it's Dexter, DDDP, and FH. I'm feeling really strongly on the Dexter vote, since he's got the ability to hammer me, but hasn't yet, and still has yet to explain why he thinks I'm town instead of scum. To me, it's a safe move for scum not to hammer, and Dexter doesn't want that kind of attention. So, honestly, I'd be down for a Dexter lynch, then a FH lynch, then DDDP.

Okay. So. 1) I've been inactive lately. 2) I'm scum because I didn't hammer you? Wouldn't that mean that EVERYONE except for those on your wagon is scum? And what if I did hammer you? Would that make me town? And even if I was active and able to hammer, why would I? Town gains absolutely nothing from hammering someone and ending discussion early, especially without a claim or defense.

I think Varsoon is

SCUM

because all the cases he makes on people are quite ridiculous.

So right now, I think the most scummy player is Varsoon. Mutley seems null leaning town, PP is town, Mist is null, FH is null leaning scum, Zoggoth is null leaning scum, RC is a dumbass, DDP is null leaning scum.

Varsoon I want you to claim, write up an actual case on me/whoever you think is scum, and write up a defense for yourself. I will hammer if you mess this up.

[Paid Pyro]

Zogg, why are you not voting. You have had all day to formulate opinions and reads. Why the hesitation? To should have your vote on your top scum at this point. If its Varsoon and you don't want to hammer yet, it should be on your number two. Not voting is not an option (if your town).

[Messiah]

Newbie 1356 - Vote Count 1.13

---

Varsoon [L-1]

- Paid Pyro, RadiantCowbell, Debonair Danny DiPietro, freezing-hell
freezing-hell [L-3] - Mutleyddmc, Mist7676
dexter9264 [L-4] - Varsoon

Not Voting (3):

Zoggoth, dexter9264

With nine alive it takes

five

to lynch.

---

Deadline:

(expired on 2013-04-24 20:00:00)

[Varsoon]

Alright, gimme awhile to recoup, sleep, wake up, look over the thread, and make a good argument towards my townhood.

Until then, please don't lynch me. I don't think town gets much from just lynching town.

[Mutleyddmc]

Stop!!!! It's Hammer time!!

Not really that was a little reaction test

[freezing-hell]

Mutley seems a bit anxious to lynch.

[Mutleyddmc]

My cat and dog live together. Does this mean I am a good player now? Or is this a universe where cats dogs live together but I'm still a bad player?

Why are you so reluctant to vote for Varsoon?

Don't. He hasn't claimed a role yet, plus I want him to give his last reads on everyone.

Why the change. asking why I am reluctant to vote (hammer) when I go to hammer you ask me not to?

[Mist7676]

I think everyone is a bit antsy to get a hammer. Flips are information.

[freezing-hell]

You just seem a little eager to lynch, that's the feeling I got. Not necessarily scummy, just interesting

[Mutleyddmc]

Even though I said it was a reaction test.

As mist said in a way a hammer can be good we get a flip. Can analyse that a little etc. however I am not prepared to be the hammer yet as there's more to talk about and I have you as my target still. However you are less scummy than before

[Zoggoth]

I was going to leave him until later, but since these posts are taking me so long

Varsoon:

Since my last post, he has put the over-zealous mutley wagon firmly to rest (slight town), accused a legitimate iso from PP and case of being OMGUS (he has a point, but still slight scum), put up a legitimate defense against his wagon instead of deflecting (like RC) or ignoring (mutley) and has done some actual analysis of who is and isn't on his wagon. All of this seems to be an effort to get the game moving again towards getting some real information, and

overall I think Varsoon is town.

(No mafia player should need a tl;dr)

This is contrary to my earlier post putting forward a varsoon/DDDP scumteam, and the points made there still stand. However, I made that post so that people could see my analysis and comment on it, and its completely pointless for me to spend an hour reading and analyzing the last week of gameplay and get nothing but two posts claiming that my argument is invalid because it requires us not to automatically believe everything my scum suspects say.

I acknowledge DDDP point that the argument is circumstantial and overcomplicated, but for goodness sake everyone else! If you agree, say why, if not, tell me why I'm wrong. There is no point asking for people's opinion and then completely ignoring what they say other than to justify your own towniness. I find it difficult to believe that anyone, regardless of alignment, could be in a position where they simply don't care whether Varsoon is scum or not, and who his scum partner could be.

Over the rest of the weekend I will put up as much proper analysis as I can, and I will vote within the next 24 hours. I am planning to do a bit of work on possible scum teams, as well as the detailed mist iso that varsoon requested ages ago. However, FH analysis is a bit more urgent now, as he seems to be very important in the varsoon wagon.

Also, I wasn't voting earlier because all the wagons seemed terrible and I was waiting for more peoples reads (I would have voted PP, but I was worried that I might have been overly harsh on him and was looking for some unbiased opinion). These reads never turned up, and I wanted to post my thoughts on everyone before announcing my vote, but at the moment I am leaning towards FH, and still trying to get some proper reads on mist and dexter. I will be putting my money where my mouth tomorrow.

[freezing-hell]

Even though I said it was a reaction test.

As mist said in a way a hammer can be good we get a flip. Can analyse that a little etc. however I am not prepared to be the hammer yet as there's more to talk about and I have you as my target still. However you are less scummy than before

From my phone, and a bit drunk, when you say is a reaction test, then it's already no longer a reaction test.

What kind of reaction were you testing for?

[freezing-hell]

What legitimate defense would that be?

[Mutleyddmc]

Even though I said it was a reaction test.

As mist said in a way a hammer can be good we get a flip. Can analyse that a little etc. however I am not prepared to be the hammer yet as there's more to talk about and I have you as my target still. However you are less scummy than before

From my phone, and a bit drunk, when you say is a reaction test, then it's already no longer a reaction test.

What kind of reaction were you testing for?

Yes you are drunk. Yes it stopped. Hence why I was questioning you saying I'm anxious cos I had said I was reaction testing. I got a reaction out of you and pyro. Of not actually wanting the hammer, even though you two have prob been the most vocal on varsoons lynch.

[freezing-hell]

What were you testing for then? Oh - I'm still fine with a Varsoon lynch, as things stand at the moment. But I don't want him to be lynched before he claims and gives his last reads. This is all normal procedure, pretty much. But like I said, you just looked a bit lynch happy before someone had claimed.

[freezing-hell]

put up a legitimate defense against his wagon instead of deflecting (like RC) or ignoring (mutley) a

What legitimate defense would that be?

For clarification.

[Mutleyddmc]

What were you testing for then? Oh - I'm still fine with a Varsoon lynch, as things stand at the moment. But I don't want him to be lynched before he claims and gives his last reads. This is all normal procedure, pretty much. But like I said, you just looked a bit lynch happy before someone had claimed.

I've already said. As I'm pretty sure you are someone who says that others should go and find what has already been said.

[freezing-hell]

I have the real urge to hammer.

Stop!!!! It's Hammer time!!

Not really that was a little reaction test

Ohh - now I get it. The first post was the reaction test. I read it as if you meant the reaction test was the second post.

Yes you are drunk. Yes it stopped. Hence why I was questioning you saying I'm anxious cos I had said I was reaction testing. I got a reaction out of you and pyro. Of not actually wanting the hammer, even though you two have prob been the most vocal on varsoons lynch.

So how do you feel about that? Of me not wanting the hammer just yet? I mean you did a reaction test, so what did that give you for information?

[freezing-hell]

I've already said. As I'm pretty sure you are someone who says that others should go and find what has already been said.

You haven't said yet what I wanted to hear. It's very good of you to notice that I don't want the hammer to fall yet, but what does that signify? Apparently something, otherwise you wouldn't bring it up.

[Zoggoth]

@freezing-hell I see Varsoon's comments on mutley's post as close to defense (while it could be seen as a straight attack on your motives, the fact that he doesn't initiate it makes it seem less of an OMGUS). But mainly it is his explanation of his actions on the previous two wagons. It is not much, but it is at least an argument.

I think that Varsoon had a point when he said that he couldn't tell where FH's argument was. The amount of activity of makes it relatively difficult to find, particularly given how many people FH commented on. If anyone's still interested I think the question Varsoon missed was either:
1. why he told everyone that anyone pushing the mutley to [L-1] was scum
2. why he thought mist was scum
3. why he changed his mind about RC
4. whether his lack of comment on my read meant he agreed
5. why he voted for PP in 164

I suddenly have a lot of sympathy for Varsoon trying to find these and work out which one FH meant, but when he's at [L-1] I think he should probably be motivated enough to put a bit more effort in.

The reason I'm not convinced that Varsoon is scum by these is that most of them seem to be more about him not justifying or commenting on his actions, rather than him being scummy.

In a game where there are people making no real actions at all (RC and, to a lesser extent, PP and me) and DDDP openly refusing to explain his actions until it fits his schedule, I feel its a bit harsh to be focusing on someone simply because he wasn't able to comment on the sheer volume of posts made about him.

Speaking of this, how come you were focusing varsoon so heavily, even before he didn't comment on your questions. Almost half of your first 25 posts had something to do with Varsoon, and you don't seem to be putting so much attention into anyone else.

Was there something in the way Varsoon was behaving before your replaced in that made him seem scummy, or did you simply post more about him because he has been the most active player, and there was more to ask him about?

[freezing-hell]

Don't have time right now, about to go on a 2 hour trip. Will have internet tomorrow again, so I'll just keep it short and answer the questions at the bottom.

Was there something in the way Varsoon was behaving before your replaced in that made him seem scummy, or did you simply post more about him because he has been the most active player, and there was more to ask him about?

I am going after Varsoon because he looks the scummiest to me. It's as simple as that. Ofcourse, if you post more then you get more feedback. However, I am not just focusing on him. But my scum-radar is buzzing when I look at Varsoon more so than others, hence why I prefer him to be today's lynch.

I didn't get your point about the defense though. I understood from your post that Varsoon had made a legitimate defense?

[Paid Pyro]

Alright, gimme awhile to recoup, sleep, wake up, look over the thread, and make a good argument towards my townhood.

Until then, please don't lynch me. I don't think town gets much from just lynching town.

How hard is it to claim? It shouldn't take this long if you are truly town.

Zogg, did I miss your vote?