Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[Sakura Hana]

Shawn is probably number one in my scum list.

Then why aren't you voting for him? (inb4 you are and i haven't noticed)

[Tierce]

Votecount 1.3

(1)

Shawn

- sycorax
(1)

TheIrishPope

- Thor665
(1)

Thor665

- Shawn

(0)

Sakura Hana

-

(Shawn)

(6)

Not voting

- Commandodude, MontyWhittaker, Ms Marangal, Nekoko, TheIrishPope, Sakura Hana

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.
The deadline is May 4 at 10:35 PM PDT. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-05-04 22:35:00)

[TheIrishPope]

Again:

I want to hear from everyone first.

[sycorax]

I see you lurkin' nacho.

[Thor665]

Thor, would you care to explain why people should lynch me with such haste?

If I think you should be lynched I fail to understand why I should want you lynched a week from now as opposed to a day from now, or an hour from now.

If I was defending anyone, it was Syncorax, not Nekoko.

Thank you for noting that you are defending people.
You do then go on to explain why you defended Syn (a more reasonable defense) and didn't address why you defended Nekoko.
So I'll ask for a third time. Why did you defend Nekoko? Even if you don't want to call it a defense - justify leaping in to answer an accusation directed at him, why did you do that? You can call if kumquating him for all I care - stop dodging the question.

Hey, does speed-lynching end the day like days early? 'Cause that could easily influence my votes.

I still don't seem to have your vote.
Are you even doing anything with your current vote? I don't think you are.

A question for all again (pardon my excessive enquiring):
Lynch All Liars, yay or nay?

Nay. Some lies are worth lynching for, but certainly not all of them.

This guy is really really useless, just asking the same questions, not willing to be open on his read on me or Sakura, and doesnt seem to have ANY other reads that he has shared.

Also he outright lied when he said he was in 'RVS', and he voted for Sakura. Then a few posts later, he said that his vote was for Sakura being scum without offering ANY explanation.

1. I am asking the "same questions" because people are avoiding answering them. I personally agree that makes *somebody* useless, but I don't think it's the guy having to repeat the questions. Oddly, you keep making identical accusations about me while not noting that I keep answering you - again, making this kind of annoying and hypocritical at the same moment.

2. I have explained my vote on Sakura. I have explained my read on you. If I quote them will you agree to post in your sig that you don't read games properly and Thor665's beard is quite manly and leave that sig up for at least three months? If so, I'll happily quote them for you. Or you could, y'know, just read my posts.

3. I have expressed more reads than any other player in the game. I've offered reads on 3 players...who has done more?

4. I did not outright lie and you still have failed to produce the quote of me saying my vote was random. Instead you produced a quote of me describing a game state situation that used the word random, but that clearly in the linked description and in my own words I noted was not truly random. Then you ignored me saying this to you already and presented a really sloppy case on me. You also repeated point #3...which I'll again note, I did explain, you just didn't notice it. Even she has noticed it by this stage and stopped asking - you think maybe that means something?

Read more, or get policy lynched on principal - because you're still a mushball of a read for me.

The scum motivation is that he cant explain his reads properly or is scared to because he might be pressured on specific points. Its easier to defend general stuff rather than specific stuff.
Uselessness is a scumtell, because its difficult to be useful when you dont actually have to scumhunt.

[Sakura Hana]

Actually, i forgot to read something that i noticed on ISO on Thor when i wanted to check the reasoning for his vote. And i quite agree.

VOTE: IrishPope

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

Care to explainthis post?

[Nekoko]

I see there was a confusion when thor first posted.
I think it's because of this which came from a template
introduction post for ICs.

We are now starting what is known as the RVS (random voting stage).

---

Caught up.

VOTE: Shawn

atm shawn looks like scum trying to look super townie. Calling scum because a new player says they are new etc.?

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

Finding TheIrishPope's post suspicious. His reason for suspecting Shawn looks the same as sycorax's reason
for voting him but the difference is that TIP didn't vote Shawn and his reason is weaker.

Sakura, the person who votes first is generally scum. So I do believe he is most likely mafia.

Where did you get this idea (from epic mafia perhaps?)
I think in all of my games I played, people who vote first are not mafia.
It's basically a null tell because either town or mafia will do it.

Again: I want to hear from everyone first.

Why do you need to hear from everyone before you cast your vote?
If you think someone is scummy, vote for him.
You don't need to know whether people will agree with you or not
because it will look you are a cautious scum.

VOTE: TheIrishPope

---

Also I feel SH is slight town for now. I don't think a first time scum player
can post as active and as spontaneous as she is.

Also I find Shawn suspicious although he looks like an aggressive reckless newb town

---

Oh and hi VI Marangal

[Sakura Hana]

Considering Irish is at L-2 now, I hope we get a better explanation from him.

[sycorax]

Thor

, my vote is still on Shawn. Irish looks scummy as well, but Shawn's recent posts caused me to leave my vote there for the moment.

[Tierce]

will you agree to post in your sig that you don't read games properly and Thor665's beard is quite manly and leave that sig up for at least three months?

Please refer to Rule 10 of the General Rules section:

Do not bring outside factors into this game. This includes, among other things, making bets, promises of real life rewards, etc.

Do not make such bets in my games.

[TheIrishPope]

Actually, i forgot to read something that i noticed on ISO on Thor when i wanted to check the reasoning for his vote. And i quite agree.

VOTE: IrishPope

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

Care to explainthis post?

WIFOM (Wine In Front Of Me) logic. Scum try very hard to look innocent, and to me, Shawn goes a tad overboard with it.
Sakura, please give me an explanation as to why you defend Shawn, given he is acting scummy.

I see there was a confusion when thor first posted.
I think it's because of this which came from a template
introduction post for ICs.

We are now starting what is known as the RVS (random voting stage).

---

Caught up.

VOTE: Shawn

atm shawn looks like scum trying to look super townie. Calling scum because a new player says they are new etc.?

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

Finding TheIrishPope's post suspicious. His reason for suspecting Shawn looks the same as sycorax's reason
for voting him but the difference is that TIP didn't vote Shawn and his reason is weaker.

Sakura, the person who votes first is generally scum. So I do believe he is most likely mafia.

Where did you get this idea (from epic mafia perhaps?)
I think in all of my games I played, people who vote first are not mafia.
It's basically a null tell because either town or mafia will do it.

Again: I want to hear from everyone first.

Why do you need to hear from everyone before you cast your vote?
If you think someone is scummy, vote for him.
You don't need to know whether people will agree with you or not
because it will look you are a cautious scum.

VOTE: TheIrishPope

---

Also I feel SH is slight town for now. I don't think a first time scum player
can post as active and as spontaneous as she is.

Also I find Shawn suspicious although he looks like an aggressive reckless newb town

---

Oh and hi VI Marangal

I have never played in Epic Mafia, although I have heard of it. Again, YMMV. It is my opinion. Why are you causing mass paranoia and continuing to raise the same points which I have already explained? Setting yourself over suspicion is in itself suspicious.
I am not waiting for people to agree with me. I want them to talk to develop reads on them. If I vote people who are active, there is a greater chance I hit town, and you all look town at the moment. I choose not to vote at the moment because I don't want to hurt Town.
Nekoko, why do you defend sycorax?

Also, something that was on my mind a while ago: Why did MontyWhittaker post once, only to leave?

[Ms Marangal]

I did not defend Neko. I did not answer an accusation directed to him.

Not everyone is attentive to their games as everyone likes. People sign up, and then RL Gets in the way, SE's also wait for quite some time to get into a game so I wouldn't be surprised if Nekoko isn't able to jump into the game right away.

This is the post where I "Defend" Nekoko right? Looking at the context of the post, it was a direct answer to Irish, who had asked why Syncorax was being lenient to Nekoko for not yet having a post. I also gave Irish the answer that Syn should have given him, which was probably a mistake but it's still defending Syn.

Irish is murky waters for me. I can see why people want to vote him, he's alluring in terms of vote placement though alot of his thoughts can come from noob town.

Pedit: and that last post just weakened the any scum-read I may have had for him. I don't think he's the best person to vote.

[Nekoko]

WIFOM (Wine In Front Of Me) logic. Scum try very hard to look innocent, and to me, Shawn goes a tad overboard with it.
Sakura, please give me an explanation as to why you defend Shawn, given he is acting scummy.

Then vote for Shawn now

I am not waiting for people to agree with me. I want them to talk to develop reads on them. If I vote people who are active, there is a greater chance I hit town, and you all look town at the moment. I choose not to vote at the moment because I don't want to hurt Town.

So Shawn in fact looks town to you? I thought you suspect him

Nekoko, why do you defend sycorax?

Is quoting sycorax's post to show that your reason for "suspecting" Shawn looks the same is called defending?

Also, something that was on my mind a while ago: Why did MontyWhittaker post once, only to leave?

Directing away attention to someone especially if it's just about someone's activeness is suspicious

[Sakura Hana]

WIFOM logic just leads to circles and circles, imo. Shawn does look scummy indeed, but the fact that Irish has to keep reminding us how towny he is sounds off to me.

[Thor665]

@Corax - I know where your vote is - I'm just debating what you're doing with it.

You're not attacking him, really, you sound like you're fishing for votes from the sidelines.

@Tierce - I think you should clarify the bets thing a bit - when I read it I thought you meant cash type bets, not pride type bets. I'll withdraw the request though and apologize, I didn't mean to break a rule.

@MM - Hurm.

@Nekoko - your read on MM please.

[Shawn]

Really Thor? You want to lynch me because you cant read me rather than me being scum.
Right.

Quote your explaination for your reads then, Im totally stupid and not reading your posts.

Irish, what is scummy about my posting? Specifically?

Thor, what was the point of posting about RVS if we werent in RVS?

[Shawn]

Meh I wanna lynch Irish at this point. Voting a townie does jack shit. Lynching a townie is slightly worse but the fact that Irish doesnt want to take a hard stance against any player worries me because he can 180 and flip flop around his reads easily.

[Thor665]

@Shawn - I want to lynch Irish right now. I am willing to lynch you because I can't read you though, yes. Recognize the inability to read you is not 'totally null' it's 'he's playing in a way that is very awkward and untrustworthy town or is just scum' which makes it a much more reasonable lynch.

My reason for the vote on Sakura is here;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4893398

My read on you is presented here;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4893582

Also, I posted about RVS when we were in RVS...I wasn't aware I'd posted about it when we weren't. Link?

[TheIrishPope]

These arguments are really weak. Here's why:

WIFOM (Wine In Front Of Me) logic. Scum try very hard to look innocent, and to me, Shawn goes a tad overboard with it.
Sakura, please give me an explanation as to why you defend Shawn, given he is acting scummy.

Then vote for Shawn now

I am not waiting for people to agree with me. I want them to talk to develop reads on them. If I vote people who are active, there is a greater chance I hit town, and you all look town at the moment. I choose not to vote at the moment because I don't want to hurt Town.

So Shawn in fact looks town to you? I thought you suspect him

Nekoko, why do you defend sycorax?

Is quoting sycorax's post to show that your reason for "suspecting" Shawn looks the same is called defending?

Also, something that was on my mind a while ago: Why did MontyWhittaker post once, only to leave?

Directing away attention to someone especially if it's just about someone's activeness is suspicious

He looks like scum. It does NOT follow that I am obligated to vote for him. I am not directing attention away from me, I am just trying to weed out scum in an attempt to, you know, WIN the game.

WIFOM logic just leads to circles and circles, imo. Shawn does look scummy indeed, but the fact that Irish has to keep reminding us how towny he is sounds off to me.

I agree with you Sakura, but a newb doesn't know he should avoid it according to the current meta. That is why I am not voting (as I have said a dozen times) and waiting on everyone to post so that I can identify who the scum is.

Irish, what is scummy about my posting? Specifically?

Your sudden appearance and change of vote seem suspicious. Also, it does not make sense to lynch someone because they are useless.

[Shawn]

@Shawn - I want to lynch Irish right now. I am willing to lynch you because I can't read you though, yes. Recognize the inability to read you is not 'totally null' it's 'he's playing in a way that is very awkward and untrustworthy town or is just scum' which makes it a much more reasonable lynch.

My reason for the vote on Sakura is here;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4893398

My read on you is presented here;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4893582

Also, I posted about RVS when we were in RVS...I wasn't aware I'd posted about it when we weren't. Link?

About the RVS issue. Maybe Sakura referenced it, but I dont think anyone outrightly said anything about random voting. So why did you post it?
Also why didnt you say that your vote wasnt a random vote?

Read on Me:

Heya Thor.

Greetings, Mollie told me to 'make it fun for you' or something like that.
I'm planning to just speed lynch you for lulz later.

Why do you think Shawn is scum trying to look town as opposed to hyper nervous new town trying to be town?
I can't get a clear read there, myself.

This is a read. This is not an explanation. I asked for an explanation. Give it.

Explanation for read on Sakura

UNVOTE:

Use your tags, young grasshopper.

So why did you say it was a random vote when it was a vote for scum?
And why is sakura scum?

1. I didn't say it was a random vote - why do you think I did?
2. Because she had the most votes on her, why did you unvote her as soon as I sounded serious but not as soon as I voted her?

I assume that your vote was a joke vote then? So is Sakura scum? And why is sakura scum, if in fact she is?

[Shawn]

Irish, what is scummy about my posting? Specifically?

Your sudden appearance and change of vote seem suspicious. Also, it does not make sense to lynch someone because they are useless.

Why is my appearance scummy?
Why is the change of vote scum motivated? I assume you are talking about sakura to thor? Why is that scummy?
I said other things, but generally if an experienced player is useless, they may be scum. Its a point but not the main point. Do you want to address anything else I said about thor?

[Nekoko]

@Nekoko - your read on MM please.

MM looks suspicious

If I was defending anyone, it was Syncorax, not Nekoko.

Irish is a tempting person to vote, though I will hold mine until everyone has at least posted something. He can easily be super nervous townie, or super nervous scum based on what he has posted so far

@ Irish, I do not have any scum-spects thus far.

as for why I was defending her, She also gives me some town vibes so I feel inclined to protect who I perceive to be town.

I don't know if this is a slip or not. Normally people don't use "her" or "she" to address people.
Syncorax hasn't yet said whether he's a he or a she. If MM was referring to me, this is also suspicious because I haven't posted yet.

Also she looks too "friendly" or something in this game as if she doesn't want to make enemies.

[Ms Marangal]

How am I coming off as "to friendly"?

[Thor665]

About the RVS issue. Maybe Sakura referenced it, but I dont think anyone outrightly said anything about random voting. So why did you post it?
Also why didnt you say that your vote wasnt a random vote?

1. Oh...I dunno, maybe it was part of a copy/paste intro that I literally do in every single one of my IC games. But I'm sure I actually typed it up in this game only because I was scum in order to...do...a...thing...that...wait, even if I did do it only in this game, how is that scummy in any way at all?

2. I did say it wasn't random in my second post of the game, and I never called it random in the first one, so...I dunno, I didn't realize I had to clarify that my votes weren't random. Is your last vote on me random? You didn't say it wasn't, so it probably is random, and that makes you scum because scum...random...talk about...RVS....or something, right?

This is a read. This is not an explanation. I asked for an explanation. Give it.

Explain how I don't have a clear read on you?
Seriously? Like what do you want, me to post random quotes from you and then explain how I can see them as coming from both silly town or scum? I feel like I have better things to do than that. Functionally I even sort of already did this when speaking about you, in addressing some of the 'trying to look town' think that Corax has issues about you with. You never asked Corax to explain spit, and she's even voting you.

Why do you hold us to a different standard from each other?

I assume that your vote was a joke vote then? So is Sakura scum? And why is sakura scum, if in fact she is?

No, my vote was not a joke. I guess I need to mention that also now.
I don't know if she is. I somewhat lean 'no' but it's not a strong read.
If she is scum then she's scummy for all her vote sheeping and active attempts to avoid the spotlight. The problem is that could also be newb town who doesn't know how to scumhunt and is just sheeping players she thinks know what they're doing. But I'm fascinated you are calling out IrishPope for lack of clear reads when Sakura is right next to him.

Want to clarify that for me?
Again, I feel like you're applying double standards.

[Thor665]

How am I coming off as "to friendly"?

Really?