Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[Ms Marangal]

I also already stated that I was referring to Syncorax and not you so...

Pedit: this is to Neko

Pedit X2: yes, really

[Thor665]

I'll let Nekko answer unless you want me to.
But it seems pretty self-evident.

[Tierce]

Votecount 1.4

(3)

TheIrishPope

- Thor665, Sakura Hana, Nekoko
(1)

Shawn

- sycorax
(1)

Thor665

- Shawn

(4)

Not voting

- Commandodude, MontyWhittaker, Ms Marangal,

(Nekoko,)

TheIrishPope,

(Sakura Hana)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.
The deadline is May 4 at 10:35 PM PDT. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-05-04 22:35:00)

[Ms Marangal]

Maybe both of you could, because I don't see how this is different from my normal play TBQH

[TheIrishPope]

Irish, what is scummy about my posting? Specifically?

Your sudden appearance and change of vote seem suspicious. Also, it does not make sense to lynch someone because they are useless.

Why is my appearance scummy?
Why is the change of vote scum motivated? I assume you are talking about sakura to thor? Why is that scummy?
I said other things, but generally if an experienced player is useless, they may be scum. Its a point but not the main point. Do you want to address anything else I said about thor?

Sorry, I misworded: The way you appeared out of nowhere to change your vote looks suspicious. It looks scummy because you are practically trying to lynch someone due to their lack of usefulness in the game. Nobody knows anything in Day 1; I might say you are useless and vote you, but it wouldn't make sense, you see? It seems to me you are impatient and restless. You want to advance to night suddenly to kill Town. You are acting very scummy.

If I was scum, why would I not vote? I am looking at the people on the bandwagon, they seem the most suspicious as well. Any thoughts on this, Shawn?

[Nekoko]

He looks like scum. It does NOT follow that I am obligated to vote for him. I am not directing attention away from me, I am just trying to weed out scum in an attempt to, you know, WIN the game.

I don't see how not voting for your main suspect would help in weeding out scum.
You'd get more information by pressuring people with your vote as a vote is a real threat to someone's life.

How am I coming off as "to friendly"?

I go to bed and wake up to activity, I really love this batch

Shawn: Pope and Sakura have a possibility of being scum for throwing out the "I need help"/Noob card so early on in the game and I am suspicious of both however, the likelyhood of both of them being scum is very low. At this point in time, I do not have reliable scum-reads.

Syncorax... You know Mollie? Hmm... I might keep a close eye on you then

Why did you think Sakura is scum Thor? I'm getting a vague town-feel from her.

Irish is a tempting person to vote, though I will hold mine until everyone has at least posted something. He can easily be super nervous townie, or super nervous scum based on what he has posted so far

Too quote a few. Well you will suspect someone and then say maybe you're wrong. You're not going to get enemies with that

I also already stated that I was referring to Syncorax and not you so...

How do you know Syncorax is a she then :O

[Shawn]

About the RVS issue. Maybe Sakura referenced it, but I dont think anyone outrightly said anything about random voting. So why did you post it?
Also why didnt you say that your vote wasnt a random vote?

1. Oh...I dunno, maybe it was part of a copy/paste intro that I literally do in every single one of my IC games. But I'm sure I actually typed it up in this game only because I was scum in order to...do...a...thing...that...wait, even if I did do it only in this game, how is that scummy in any way at all?

Its scummy because its activity without a point. setup speculation, easy to do as any alignment but more likely to do as scum because you cant find actual content.

This is a read. This is not an explanation. I asked for an explanation. Give it.

Explain how I don't have a clear read on you?
Seriously? Like what do you want, me to post random quotes from you and then explain how I can see them as coming from both silly town or scum? I feel like I have better things to do than that. Functionally I even sort of already did this when speaking about you, in addressing some of the 'trying to look town' think that Corax has issues about you with. You never asked Corax to explain spit, and she's even voting you.

Why do you hold us to a different standard from each other?

Because you are a better player(supposedly) and different standerds should apply. In your experience, are the players that are decently experienced more likely to be useless than new players?

I assume that your vote was a joke vote then? So is Sakura scum? And why is sakura scum, if in fact she is?

No, my vote was not a joke. I guess I need to mention that also now.
I don't know if she is. I somewhat lean 'no' but it's not a strong read.
If she is scum then she's scummy for all her vote sheeping and active attempts to avoid the spotlight. The problem is that could also be newb town who doesn't know how to scumhunt and is just sheeping players she thinks know what they're doing. But I'm fascinated you are calling out IrishPope for lack of clear reads when Sakura is right next to him.

This is the laziest explanation of a read I have ever seen. Wishywashy, and no conclusion. Cool.

So to sum up your thoughts,
You wanna lynch me because you cant read me.
You dont really wanna lynch Sakura now I guess, but your vote is on her. Interesting.

Anyone you actually think could flip scum?

I didnt call out Sakura because I have a town read on her. NEXT QUESTION.

[sycorax]

@Nekoko - your read on MM please.

MM looks suspicious

If I was defending anyone, it was Syncorax, not Nekoko.

Irish is a tempting person to vote, though I will hold mine until everyone has at least posted something. He can easily be super nervous townie, or super nervous scum based on what he has posted so far

@ Irish, I do not have any scum-spects thus far.

as for why I was defending her, She also gives me some town vibes so I feel inclined to protect who I perceive to be town.

I don't know if this is a slip or not. Normally people don't use "her" or "she" to address people.
Syncorax hasn't yet said whether he's a he or a she. If MM was referring to me, this is also suspicious because I haven't posted yet.

Also she looks too "friendly" or something in this game as if she doesn't want to make enemies.

I am a woman. sycorax is a woman's name. My friend Mollie has spoken with Marangal about my joining MS, which she referred to in an earlier post.

Dunno why I look 'too friendly'. It's an odd thing to say, imv.

[Thor665]

Maybe both of you could, because I don't see how this is different from my normal play TBQH

You're defending everybody who so much as posts sideways.

Its scummy because its activity without a point. setup speculation, easy to do as any alignment but more likely to do as scum because you cant find actual content.

Which might make any sense at all if my first post didn't contain a serious vote. So what was my plan, ramble on and provide no content and then...y'know, provide content?

Because you are a better player(supposedly) and different standerds should apply. In your experience, are the players that are decently experienced more likely to be useless than new players?

I think players who play uselessly are more likely to be useless and that it meaningless to experience level. There are many newer players I find exceedinly content heavy and many experienced players I consider feebs.

So you do agree you are applying your reads on an alternate sliding scale of 'Thor needs to be better than everyone else to look even almost as good as them' yes? Interesting that you think I'm so experienced and good - yet at the same time think all I'm doing is fluff posting and dodging (and also that you're th eonly one noticing). Ockham's Razor a bit, yeah?

This is the laziest explanation of a read I have ever seen. Wishywashy, and no conclusion. Cool.

Actually there was a quite clear conclusion. So...whut? Last I checked 'leaning town' was a conclusion.

So to sum up your thoughts,
You wanna lynch me because you cant read me.
You dont really wanna lynch Sakura now I guess, but your vote is on her. Interesting.

Anyone you actually think could flip scum?

I haven't been voting Sakura for quite some time now and...it's not like I'm being subtle about who I do want to lynch.
Why aren't you reading the game?

I didnt call out Sakura because I have a town read on her. NEXT QUESTION.

Why do you have a town read of her?
Also, if a town read can do the thing - why do you find it questionable when someone else does it - clearly town do it, yeah?

[Sakura Hana]

Well consdering everyone's coming with their reads, i'll go with mine.

Shawny: Can't get a clear read since he's new, his ISO #0 bothers me, but it could've been a joke for his first post. Then on ISO #1 decides to attack me due to my introduction post (gauging reactions perhaps?) but looks weird considering his ISO #10 hints to him considering first posts being important, and asking specifically commando from the get go, cool name? im not buying it. on his #11 he seems eager to lynch people because "If we no lynch town loses", yet nothing says that because a lynch takes a week or a day doesnt necessarily end in NL, then decides to attack Thor due to him not stating reasons, yet the reason was stated (which i failed to read but found it after), and asks us to quickly hammer him on his ISO #22, then suddenly flops on ISO #25, but doesnt change his vote?.

Sycorax: Null. Seems to be answer more questions about mafia play than about reads, can't get a clear read, he only starts answering when interrogated due to him defending Neko, but was he really defending her (him?), his ISO #22 shows suspicion on Thor for speed lynching? not sure, then on ISO #26 he moves suspicion back to Shawny for the same reason.

Thor: Leaning town he looks legitimately scumhunting via testing reactions, as shown with his vote against me on his ISO #0 with explanation on ISO #3. His reason for voting Irish on ISO #12 looks ok to me, since what Irish said looks like a scumslip. Answering questions and continuasly asking them, looks a-ok in my book.

Neko: Null, haven't seen much from her (him?) other than reads on people, can't tell much at this point.

Shawn: Leaning scum, constantly attacking and aiming for a quick lynch, quick lynches easily lead to mislynches specially without much info, that looks pretty scummy to me, you could argue that Thor is doing the same, but he's also scumhunting, so i'm more inclined to believe his actions are more town oriented than shawn, who just seems to want to find a target now.

MM: Leaning town, the main argument against him was defending Neko, but i don't really see how Neko being absent until right now is any indication of scumness when the game had only been going for like half a real life day?

IrishPope: Thinking scum, if you're town you don't really need to keep mentioning every single post, most relevant ones are his ISOs #10, #13, and #14, also his ISO #5 bothers me, someone's scum because they dont look scum? nice logic. Also ISO #23

If I was scum, why would I not vote?

more likely waiting to join a BW when you see everyone going into it, so your partner can hammer?, looks to me like you should at least be voting to gauge reactions so you can get reads.

PEdit: wow a lot of new posts while i was typing that X_X will read them now.

[Nekoko]

Dunno why I look 'too friendly'. It's an odd thing to say, imv.

I was referring to MM.

[Sakura Hana]

btw off-topic but neko, should i call you a he or a she.

[TheIrishPope]

People here are pressuring me to pressure other people. Seems legit.
Waiting for others is the most sensible thing to do. What is not sensible is trying to lynch without hard proof. If you really were town, you wouldn't be causing confusion and mass hysteria. Let's stop fighting each other and use logic to win this, guys.

[Sakura Hana]

And where are you gonna draw that logic from if not from pressuring and getting reads or possibly a scumslip or two from people? if we all stay quiet, arms crossed then night will come with a NL and then mafia gets a free kill

[Shawn]

Its scummy because its activity without a point. setup speculation, easy to do as any alignment but more likely to do as scum because you cant find actual content.

Which might make any sense at all if my first post didn't contain a serious vote. So what was my plan, ramble on and provide no content and then...y'know, provide content?
[/quote]
It really really irritates me that it took so long for you to explain your 'serious' vote on Sakura. Do you not agree with the fact that you didnt explain your 'vote' until I asked you about it? Why did you take so long?

Because you are a better player(supposedly) and different standerds should apply. In your experience, are the players that are decently experienced more likely to be useless than new players?

I think players who play uselessly are more likely to be useless and that it meaningless to experience level. There are many newer players I find exceedinly content heavy and many experienced players I consider feebs.

I said more likely, of course there are both. Nice politically correct answer that is textbook. Cool bro.
But I guess you agree with me then.

So you do agree you are applying your reads on an alternate sliding scale of 'Thor needs to be better than everyone else to look even almost as good as them' yes? Interesting that you think I'm so experienced and good - yet at the same time think all I'm doing is fluff posting and dodging (and also that you're th eonly one noticing). Ockham's Razor a bit, yeah?

I am applying my reads with the feeling I get from your posting. So far it does not look like you want to find scum, but are intent on arguing with me, your 'unreadable' read.(no such thing bro).

This is the laziest explanation of a read I have ever seen. Wishywashy, and no conclusion. Cool.

Actually there was a quite clear conclusion. So...whut? Last I checked 'leaning town' was a conclusion.

Whoops my apologies. Still really wishywashy and easy to retract.

So to sum up your thoughts,
You wanna lynch me because you cant read me.
You dont really wanna lynch Sakura now I guess, but your vote is on her. Interesting.

Anyone you actually think could flip scum?

I haven't been voting Sakura for quite some time now and...it's not like I'm being subtle about who I do want to lynch.
Why aren't you reading the game?

I also mustve misssed the part where you said
'I wanna lynch xxx because xxx is scum
1. .....'
Please point it out for me

I didnt call out Sakura because I have a town read on her. NEXT QUESTION.

Why do you have a town read of her?
Also, if a town read can do the thing - why do you find it questionable when someone else does it - clearly town do it, yeah?

[/quote]
Its not 'ONLY SCUM DO THIS THING'.
Townies do everything scum do. There is no objective thing that ONLY scum do, so context is really important.
Sakura looks interested in finding scum. You dont. You scum.

[Shawn]

People here are pressuring me to pressure other people. Seems legit.
Waiting for others is the most sensible thing to do. What is not sensible is trying to lynch without hard proof. If you really were town, you wouldn't be causing confusion and mass hysteria. Let's stop fighting each other and use logic to win this, guys.

What proof do you want?
Like you cant find scum if no one posts, and what you are suggesting is that no one posts because it causes confusion and mass hysteria?
What do you suggest we do to find scum irish?

[sycorax]

Sycorax: Null. Seems to be answer more questions about mafia play than about reads, can't get a clear read, he only starts answering when interrogated due to him defending Neko, but was he really defending her (him?), his ISO #22 shows suspicion on Thor for speed lynching? not sure, then on ISO #26 he moves suspicion back to Shawny for the same reason.

I won't invent reads I don't have. I've voted Shawn, considered coming off him, then went back to thinking he is the scummier of him and Irish.

I don't know why you interpret suggesting that people might have reasons for entering the game late as 'defending'. It's a reality, people have lives and it is the tail end of the weekend.

Speed lynching on D1 of a two week game day is suspicious unless enough people are convinced a player is definitely scum. I don't trust Thor's reads well enough to go along with speed lynching any player this early. I've played a 24/12 game with thor, he is a strong player imo but nobody is perfect in mafia.

There are players that haven't posted, or only have a few posts that need to be looked at as well.

Now, it's 1:30 a.m. in my time zone, so I'll have to say goodnight.

[TheIrishPope]

Speed lynching on D1 of a two week game day is suspicious unless enough people are convinced a player is definitely scum. I don't trust Thor's reads well enough to go along with speed lynching any player this early.

This. We have no leads, we can't go lynching willy nilly. We literally wait to see who slips up, but don't force it upon them, because town newbies can look like scum accidentally. I also have to say good night to all. Sleep, rest, the time will come for Town to be victorious.

[Shawn]

Speed lynching on D1 of a two week game day is suspicious unless enough people are convinced a player is definitely scum. I don't trust Thor's reads well enough to go along with speed lynching any player this early.

This. We have no leads, we can't go lynching willy nilly. We literally wait to see who slips up, but don't force it upon them, because town newbies can look like scum accidentally. I also have to say good night to all. Sleep, rest, the time will come for Town to be victorious.

No leads. This aint a detective game, this is mafia.
Scum isnt gonna slip up in 1 post, its combined with all their posts. Town may look like scum in one post, but town in the rest. Context is everything

Thor, is Irish scum or not? Why?

[Thor665]

Thor, is Irish scum or not? Why?

[Shawn]

Thor, is Irish scum or not? Why?

Why?

[Sakura Hana]

Ehh can't really tell at this point, both Irish and Shawn look scummy to me, but i can't tell who's more scummy, if super extremly careful towny scumslipped irish, or super aggresive quick lynch now shawn.

P-Edit: Shawn you should really start reading posts...

[Thor665]

I was even going to respond to other stuff Shawn asked, but realized it just hurt my head.

"You didn't explain your read...until i asked you to!"

"I asked you if something was a scumtell and you gave a textbook answer!"

"I asked you for a read, you said 'leaning town', soooo scummy, totally unlike everyone else admitting to null reads, Thor must have hyper strong reads!"

"Also, when Thor has hyper strong reads it is scummy, because he pushes them weirdly!"

"I will still admit to not reading the game...why haven't you called someone scummy and voted them (like, yknow, you are currently doing - which I'd know if I was reading anything)"

"Meanwhile I'll also start soft setting myself up to shift to the guy you're pushing, even though I'm gonna keep tossing everything and the kitchen sink at you trying to make it look scummy."

"Look at me, I'm pro-town!"

Unvote: IrishPope
Vote: Shawn

Let's do this.

[Thor665]

Oh, wait, a vote doesn't exist for Shawn unless I make a case. Here's the case;

You're trying hard to look pro-town, when it is painfully apparent you aren't reding the game.
I don't believe town would be asking so many questions while clearly not even reading the posts of the player they are questioning.
Ergo - you are faking all of this scumhunting, and are scum.

[Shawn]

Oh, wait, a vote doesn't exist for Shawn unless I make a case. Here's the case;

You're trying hard to look pro-town, when it is painfully apparent you aren't reding the game.
I don't believe town would be asking so many questions while clearly not even reading the posts of the player they are questioning.
Ergo - you are faking all of this scumhunting, and are scum.

Oh god this post is horrible.
Why is all of this scummy? Why is me 'not reading your posts' scummy? How does that go to Im faking the scumhunting? You havent explained ANY OF IT.
IC huh. Interesting.
UNVOTE: Thor
(this means I think you are town)
VOTE: commandodude(random lurker vote cause whatever)