Open 493 - Jungle Republic. (Game Over - Werewolf Victory)

[Syryana]

Although i think fuzzy as werewolf is a bit of a stretch. I took his "im good at scum" comment as a just watch me comment as i said before. I think its tough to say that because he mentioned werewolfs first hes a wolf and not mafia.

Interesting. If you took fuzzy's comment as "just watch me", would that not imply he's scum (or at least that you think he is)? Not much point in watching him to see how good his scumplay is if he's town.

[Autti]

I did take it as a potential slip in #136

[Mac]

Eh, I'm not going after Fuzzy. I misread him in True Love, and I'd rather get a better grip on how he plays before throwing down a scum read.

Bo, I'm not sure why you have a town read on Mac. His posts read like scum trying to blow random talk into an illusionary case and hoping enough people bought it. This post is especially bad:

So... do these guys look like scum partners or what?

He quotes the conversation and phrases his question in a way that it will make the entire exchange look scummy. Yet, he never goes any further with it. And worse yet, he has to ask the town's approval ("These guys look pretty scummy. What do you think?"). He's done nothing scumhunting-wise sense then. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing it.

Vote Mac

Hey, you know what I decided to do instead of going any further with it?

I fell asleep. I'm not in the same timezone as you, evidently, so this post is pretty shit. For starters, how I phrase my question WON'T change how scummy the interactions look. And how the fuck is me asking the town what they think about the discussion bad? That's discussing the exchange and that's the town scumhunting as a unit. The fact you are trying to stifle it and make me out to be bad for it means you are probably scum.

VOTE: Bulba

[Egg]

Klick, i'd be more than willing to lynch ice though. Not quite sure on fuzzy. Gut was saying he could be scum after his first few posts. That feeling has faded a bit though. Throughout Page 5, I do notice a sense of confidence I haven't seen from him before. And I don't think I've seen his scum game. Meh. Not quite sure what to think.

Based on 134, if fuzzy is scum, so is bulb. Acknowledges the wagon, gives an excuse not to be on it, but leaves it open as an option for later. Then makes his mac case. This would make mac town if the fuzzy/bulb team exists.

Bo, explain your bulb vote.

I actually took that as Bulb forgetting there are two teams. I think that's slightly more likely from town because scum are trying to hunt the other team to look town so they should remember their team and it's numbers as well as the one they are hunting.

<- his explanation is probably legit. Could be a decent werewolf candidate. He's not mafia though.

Syryana, he was very loose and laid back. I don't see a Mod doing that with scum. Specifically, I mean the modkilling joke but it really applies to the whole interaction. Can you link me to a similar partner blame thing from a town hydra? Also, this isn't to say that fuzzy is town, but I think you are stretching for a case on him.

Stopped reading after syryana's post. Gotta leave for work

[Egg]

Blatant OMGUS from Mac. Not quite sure if it's scum who thinks they've been voted for non-scummy things or if it's town who is frustrated with a vote on him.

[Mac]

It's not an OMGUS. He's trying to stifle discussion by painting my question to be scummy and saying I'm "looking for town approval" when the reality is, I'm asking what everyone thinks about it.

[Autti]

I think it's more so Bulba reaching to deflect attention away from himself. It was during the RVS stage and had an informal tone. You could infer almost anything you like from it really with half decent reasoning.

Bulba and Fuzzys back and forth though is more suspicious than Mac's questioning of it anyway.

[Does Bo Know]

Syryana feels town to me with his post. Following a lot of my thought processes (except for the whole Zach thing but meh), easily strikes all the important parts of the game so far.

Mac's vote doesn't feel OMGUSy.

Bulb's reaction to my vote was calm. Still reads null to me though, but his explanation can probably make sense, considering the werewolf situation we're in.

TNE

still

isn't contributing anything. We should fix that.

UNVOTE: Bulbazak
VOTE: thenewearth

Do you have any explanations for your reads whatsoever? Because from what I can see, you aren't showing the slightest interest in scum hunting.

[zabriel]

Vote Count 1.1

Autti (BEF)
Icebox (TNE)
Syryana (Icebox)
FBN (Klick, Zach, Syryana)
TNE (Egg, DBK)
Mac (Bulba)
Bulbazak (Autti, Mac)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Syryana]

I'm totally down with TNE pressure. Let's do eet!

VOTE: TNE

Egg, I'd love to provide links, but it's an ongoing. Sorry. Also, why call Mac's vote OMGUS? I didn't get an OMGUS vibe from it.

[Egg]

Mac, it is OMGUS. Your vote on him is because of his vote on you. Scum and town both OMGUS though so that on it's own isn't scummy. What is scummy is how defensive you got, not just after his vote, but after I called your vote OMGUS as well. Lucky for you, there are players who are much scummier than you are.

Syryana, fair. I don't believe I've seen it so I was basically trying to guage whether you'd actually seen it or just felt you probably had at some point. The fact that you have a specific game in mind satisfies that. And I believe I answered your question in the first part of this post. I can go into more detail if needed, but it seems pretty clear cut to me.

[Syryana]

I'll cede that it was an OMGUS vote. We can agree to disagree on his reply to you after calling it OMGUS. I'm just not getting scummy vibes from it the way you are.

[Egg]

Meh. It's whatever. Thene and icebox are scummier anyway. And maybe even fuzzy.

[Bulbazak]

Bulba, if you're using the word scum in the broadest sense, why call the scumteam a team of 3 and not 5? Town should be thinking of scum in terms of anti-town factions, which given two teams of 3 and 2 respectively means five anti-town slots. Your reference to the scum as a single team of three is highly suspect.

I'm using "scum" in the broadest sense when I'm actually scumhunting, as I don't care what faction I'm hitting. However, in the context of the conversation, I meant "scum" as in Mafia. I disagreed in the werewolf tell of only naming one name in the second question of Klick's RQS, which asked who you would like to be Mafia with in the game. In that sense, we were only talking about one faction. I was saying that I found the tell null, because I almost forgot that there were 3 members in the scum, or Mafia, team myself. It really makes sense when you look at how it's used in context.

And how the fuck is me asking the town what they think about the discussion bad?

Except you didn't ask what they thought of the discussion, you asked, "Do these guys look like scum partners or what?", which is seeking town's approval. Town doesn't need to seek anybody's approval. They will simply do what they feel needs to be done. Scum, however, would ask that sort of question for 2 reasons: 1.) They want to see if they have the backing for such a mislynch, and 2.) They want to see if they have the town's trust or not. That's what made me take notice. I could care less for your silly little case, because that's what it is. However, any question, statement, or post that is made to pander to the town I will immediately point out, as it is inherently scummy.

[Does Bo Know]

Hmm...

I'm gonna read back on this Mac/Bulb/Fuzzy business.

[fuzzybutternut]

I have a headache, so I'll post relevant stuff when I feel better.

[Does Bo Know]

So I reread something.

The only town thing Mac's done is #58, and that was more of a slip than anything; still don't know if it's worth counting on, but I'd prefer we don't lynch Mac today.

I ISO'd Mac, Fuzzy, and Bulb together and Mac's early play regarding those two seems...off. I don't know, I think it did look like seeking town approval with his questions.

Maybe I was drinking when I first read that section of the game, idk.

But then Mac essentially ignores most everything that's happened so far and goes straight back to Bulb.

With that in mind, it looks more like OMGUS to me now.

[thenewearth]

Obviously Klick is town.

Bo. Sure he has interenst in scum hunting, but a quick ISO and it looks like he's faking it.
He also has weak reasons for his read.#125 and #157
And what does #138 mean?
Plus he's sheeping popular votes. Icebox --> Fuzzy --> Bulba --> Me

Icebox (Mostly rem). That self-meta. I don't care about meta unless I personally played with you in game. Meta is a null tell. BUT. How he insisted to out his meta... Now that's scummy. Clearing your name off by meta now, are we? No one was even asking you for meta. Why out it like that?

Bulba is actually a weak scumread of mine. Very much gut for some reason.
I should really have put him in the leaning.

Fuzzy is also gut.

[Klick]

thenewearth, why am I obviously town?

I have to do homework, but I'll get to this rigt after?

[thenewearth]

Gut. And that RQS stuff.

[Does Bo Know]

My vote on TNE is for pressure.

My 138 was explained further by Syryana. I didn't know if Bulb scum slipped or not. His answer quickly yielded results.

I'm sheeping because wagons help Day 1. Icebox first, but it lost momentum quickly. Switched to Fuzzy, my other big scum read. Bulb for his possible slip, but I liked his reaction. And now you, for previously having not contributed enough.

More later. Like tomorrow later.

[Bulbazak]

Unvote

Vote Thenewearth

You would think that calling someone obv. town would be based on something more substantial than gut. If you check out Bo's reads, which you criticized, you'll notice he has a very definite reason for Klick. You were one of the 3 scum reads I wanted to see more of, and what I'm seeing is not genuine.

[Autti]

Gut. And that RQS stuff.

Really bad reasoning for saying someone is obviously town.

I thought Klick was weaksauce for saying Icebox/Rem was confirmed town for meta bla bla posts.

Your reasoning for obv town is even worse. Looks like your trying to side with an active scum hunter. I don't like the phrasing as well, "Obviously Klick is town", obvious to who? You scum? For a game where every faction can scum hunt. Your going kinda badly at it.

N.B Not saying Klick is scum, but obvious town 7 pages in? No. No offence Klick.

[Klick]

No I agree with you. I've done nothing out of the norm for either alignment so far. Giving myself a fair read from thenewearth's arguments, the RQS thing is null because it's something I always do in this setup, and I'm pretty sure I've done it as scum before. It was a long time, though, so I dunno.

Anyway I'm on now, but it's 2:11 and I'm not going to get better reads right now. I'll do it sometime later today.

[Klick]

Long time ago*