Newbie 1356 (OVER)

[Mutleyddmc]

So two votes on mist and you will reveal stuff is how I read that? Ok then I want to hear it as we haven't talked about much else other than varsoon or FH recently

Ill start VOTE: mist

[Varsoon]

This is where we stand on different sides of the argument. I see Mafia as a game of rhetoric, and that manipulation is only a factor if you are scum.

Give me a hand? Laughable. You're trying to browbeat me into a 'better position', but taking you up on this 'offer' doesn't exonerate me of any suspicion. If I wanted to establish myself as town, taking that easy way out and partnering with you on a weak lynch that I don't support would be the last thing I'd consider. Furthermore, you're trying to convince me to lynch based off of literally no information other that 'I think Mist is scum and I have a vote on you, vote Mist and I'll take my vote off of you'. That's not compelling, it's lame. It's literally the most boring argument you could make to convince me to put my vote on Mist. I don't vote out of pressure, and I don't vote without confident reason. I'm not going to park a vote on Mist until you make a compelling argument for why you think she is scum--and even if I did put a vote on Mist then, it wouldn't be due to the fact you have a vote on me, it'd be because I legitimately want to scumhunt.

I like that you're quick to seal my coffin. If it weren't for how strongly I feel for my FH vote, I'd put my vote on you. You're really not doing a good case of positioning yourself as town, and, furthermore, you're twisting my words further. I never said that I'd be more use dead than alive. You said that. I simply stated that even if I were to be lynched, the posts I've made will help fuel pro-town content. Never did I say that the content produced then would be better or more substantial than possible content I'd produce if I was alive.

DDDP, I'd like you to back the fuck off of my case, stop twisting my words, and put your vote on your Mist wagon if you believe that's a more likely scum candidate. Furthermore, I'd like you to actually engage in convincing all of town that Mist is a good lynch, rather than insisting that I switch my vote. You aren't even holding the hammer on me. The fact you still have a vote on me, despite having Mist as a higher scum suspect--that just reeks. Play the game in a more pro-town fashion, because as of now, you're not helping your case in my eyes.

[Varsoon]

While I'm suspecting Mist and Zog for getting on my FH wagon and still being on it, they're hardly as scum-suspect as DDDP and FH for me. I'll re-evaluate them if DDDP or FH flips town, but right now, I'm putting scum between those four, with possible inclusion of Dexter.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So two votes on mist and you will reveal stuff is how I read that? Ok then I want to hear it as we haven't talked about much else other than varsoon or FH recently

Ill start VOTE: mist

I don't want your vote; I want Varsoon's vote because he can't move it back without suffering a penalty of being put back at L-1 himself which gives me two solid votes instead of one solid vote and whatever you're going to do after I make my push. Tell me Mutley, are you willing to leave your vote where it is right now for the rest of the day on penalty of your life being forfeit if you move it?

This is where we stand on different sides of the argument. I see Mafia as a game of rhetoric, and that manipulation is only a factor if you are scum.

Silly noob, you would throw away a valuable tool for the sake of honor. (Game of Thrones "spoiler" from Season 1 (3:15 or so for most relevant part)

DDDP, I'd like you to back the fuck off of my case, stop twisting my words, and put your vote on your Mist wagon if you believe that's a more likely scum candidate. Furthermore, I'd like you to actually engage in convincing all of town that Mist is a good lynch, rather than insisting that I switch my vote. You aren't even holding the hammer on me. The fact you still have a vote on me, despite having Mist as a higher scum suspect--that just reeks. Play the game in a more pro-town fashion, because as of now, you're not helping your case in my eyes.

I have no need to convince anyone I'm town right now; what I need right now is for you to do as you are bade so I have a good position to make my push from. And I already explained the calculus of my decision before, I will not move my vote and risk a lynch of one of my town reads. I'd much rather lynch you and see if your name comes up red then risk FH unless I think I can get the big prize. I'm not trying to be stealthy about what I'm trying to accomplish, I'm not trying to trick you into moving your vote so I can paint you as cowardly. I'm a good judge of how a town is composed which is why I'm pretty confident in the fact that if you make the move I've outlined for you, I make the move I've said I will, we both go to night relatively happy, you continue to be obstinate, I go to night a little less happy but still content and you go to night dead. Do the math and do it quickly, the more time you waste playing persecuted victim the less time I have to do what I'd prefer.

[Varsoon]

DDDP, you assume that someone else is going to lynch me, or that my wagon is going to go through.

I'm thoroughly convinced that if I do something as spineless as putting a vote on Mist right now, I'll be lynched.

Besides, it's not a vote I believe in, and you've done nothing to convince me that Mist is scum.

If you wanted my vote on Mist, there are at least a hundred other things you could have said had you been a witty man of many letters. Unfortunately, you are completely witless, and a man of few letters; Only four, that spell the word 'fool'.

[Mutleyddmc]

What do you want me to agree to?

[Varsoon]

Good luck trying to run the game

Spoiler:

into the ground

, though.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDDP, you assume that someone else is going to lynch me, or that my wagon is going to go through.

I'm thoroughly convinced that if I do something as spineless as putting a vote on Mist right now, I'll be lynched.

How are you going to be lynched with my vote taken off you and my backing shifting away from the wagon? Are you really that afraid of PP who hasn't said anything worthwhile in 10 days? Perhaps you're a timid little bunny because RC will suddenly push for your lynch when I'm off your wagon? Do you think Mist will somehow improve her position by jumping on to your lynch in what will then be a desperation survival play for her? Now if I don't move my vote suddenly if Mutley is annoyed with you, you're gone, or if dexter decides you're scum you're dead or is MIst thinks it gets too close to deadline, your goose is cooked.

[Varsoon]

Yes, and all of those situations are better for town than me putting my vote on Mist.

If I was scum, maybe I'd be a little more worried about my own survival. However, when it comes down to putting out a vote solely to continue to survive in a game, I think I'll stick to what I believe.

I'm not that cynical, DDDP.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Yes, and all of those situations are better for town than me putting my vote on Mist.

Your continued insistence that your death is preferable to lynching likely scum is possibly the dumbest thing I've heard from a not dumb player in a long time.

~~

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mist

I'll be back with a case before the end of the buisness day but Varsoon is a waste of a lynch, he needs to be slapped... repeatedly, not lynched.

[Varsoon]

I'd like to know why Mist is such likely scum.
C'mon, DDDP, lay it out for me.

[freezing-hell]

Interesting exchange. Still don't have a lot of time at the moment, so will put in a good post on the morrow.

/Teaching mode
Good thing to mention though, is that it's quite common what DDDP is doing: He is willing to compromise in order to get a result he wants and is open about it. This is a somewhat regular practice in mafia games. I'm not the best fan of it though, I prefer writing out a case and convincing why they should vote for someone - but that's just personal preference.
/End of teaching mode

[freezing-hell]

Also you should all scratch behind your ears if you think I'm scummy because I'm asking and probing a lot of questions. Also, me and tunneling...........what? I can't at the same time accuse everyone and tunnel. Will respond into more detail tomorrow. I'll explain who I want to see lynched, and why (since that apparently isn't completely clear) and why the case on me is completely crap. See you all on the morrow.

[dexter9264]

Newb here. can someone explain the significance of the exchange between Varsoon and DDDP? Like what exactly happened? I really don't want to put down a vote till I understand everything I can.

[freezing-hell]

The change in votes is interesting. DDP trying to get his way by using leverage over Varsoon. Varsoon isn't sure if that's a town thing or a scum thing to do. Because DDDP could've instead also wrote a case about mist in order to pursuade the rest of the town. It's especially interesting since it's so close to the deadline - makes one wonder why he suddenly opens up other possibilties for lynchees. Atleast, that's how I felt.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Reasons to lynch Mist:

Her first post, “But don't expect much from me. I don't deserve this title. It's mandatory,” is setting the bar artificially low so not much is expected of her and she has an easy out if she doesn’t deliver.

Her next five posts are so are pretty worthless just wandering through RVS grade issues without any critical summation drawn from them. Then we get, “This back and forth between you two was interesting. I am throwing the Varsoon + DDD scumteam idea out the window. But, it wasn't there in the first place” which is having an opinion for the sake of having an opinion.

***You know in ISO #8 she says this, “Personally, as scum I make jokes about being scum, because it is ironic the town doesn't catch it. Merely for my own amusement.

But I see no town motivation in behaving this way

.” But in ISO 4 we got this, “Come on mutely. I thought we promised not to bus each other!”***

The next six posts after that are similarly lacking in conclusions after she backs away from her policy lynch of Mutley. She’s looking for a reason to sheep me in ISO 15 but I don’t give her one. ISO 17 contains the words “prod dodge” which tells you how much content she’s generating.

She votes for freezing-hell in ISO 19 because she has a town read on Varsoon and that’s it there are absolutely no reasons why she believes freezing-hell is scum. Then in ISO 20 she goes back and dredges up a post that was half the game ago and that she claims to have liked the vote in it a while back but now she calls it irksome because she wants to draw a bright line between us. But by ISO 25 she completely goes back on her town read on Varsoon because he’s stalling and wants an easy lynch.

TL:DR; she does something she says she only does as scum and that there’s no reason to do as town, she under contributes and draws no firm conclusions in her contributions and bails on her reads when an easy lynch is available instead of fighting for her position.

If you read anything in this paragraphs above make sure it's the one with asterisks around it. Lynch, lynch, lynch!

[Mist7676]

So an important part in that post is the asterisks? You said yourself posts 2-6 are RVS, and I made that joke during post 4. Unlike mutley I wouldn't make when the town is in "serious" mode.

Now, Varsoon's reply is giving me town vibes. DDD is twisting his words. And dexter is confused.
That is what I am getting from this page.

I don't like the fact you had to be

asked

to generate a case on me. Kinda ashamed DDD.

Mutley is vote-hopping. Ew.

[Varsoon]

Also you should all scratch behind your ears if you think I'm scummy because I'm asking and probing a lot of questions. Also, me and tunneling...........what? I can't at the same time accuse everyone and tunnel. Will respond into more detail tomorrow. I'll explain who I want to see lynched, and why (since that apparently isn't completely clear) and why the case on me is completely crap. See you all on the morrow.

Sorry, FH, I might be confusing this game with another one. ><

[Mutleyddmc]

Good post DDDP. Mist how is it vote hopping? I wanted to hear what DDDP had hidden rather than it be kept a secret and a possibility he could not be around tomorrow.

[Mist7676]

Vote hopping is switching your vote multiple times throughout the day. You say it is a pressure vote, but what did it actually accomplish?

VOTE: shaboostein

I clearly stated we were out of RVS and any one not obeying my orders will be lynched or killed tonight!!!

Right ok so I've check this thread a few times this moring and I have seen RC in here. Hasn't posted even though there are clear questions to answer, you'd expect a post even if it didn't answer mists questions. So I am now leaning scum on him.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

If he has indeed asked to be replaced could messiah confirm as this will then be all pointless. However for now my vote goes on him.

Right as he is VLA I will move onto my scummiest target for now.

VOTE: freezing-hell

So two votes on mist and you will reveal stuff is how I read that? Ok then I want to hear it as we haven't talked about much else other than varsoon or FH recently

Ill start VOTE: mist

[Mutleyddmc]

Where dod i say it was a pressure vote? at the time i wasnt pressuringn you i was gettig DDDP to talk by goving him what he wanted. So? What it accomplished was getting DDDP to write a post that he was keeping secret. Unfortunately for you it incriminates you I suppose so you are upset. Oh no I've voted 4 times. Two are the same person with the first clearly a joke. One to get someone to talk. And one who contributes nothing. You have voted 3 times eww.

[freezing-hell]

This is getting ridiculous.

@mod: can we get a replacement for RC? Or atleast a prod.

[freezing-hell]

I fucking hate playing mafia on my netbook, can't do shit with it - sigh. My first feelings after reading the exchange:
I want to lynch RC instead of Varsoon. RC isn't doing anything. And when she comes back, she just states she still fully supports Varsoon wagon and disappears again..... Varsoon seems slightly townier now, though still more leaning scum. Will have a look at the Mist wagon now and see what that beef is all about.

[freezing-hell]

And I never did the reads because I was lazy to do so... I usually get my reads done by the end of the day to get my thoughts out for the night.

Now would be a good time.

[freezing-hell]

I feel he posts a lot of questions and accuses a lot of people. This, to me, sounds like scum grasping for straws.

Your reason for voting me, like I said I don't see how that is scummy. Besides, instead of looking (and commenting?) on the things I asked or what I 'accused' someone of, you simply dismiss it as scummy.