Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[TheIrishPope]

Oh sorry, what was the question?

[Tierce]

Votecount 1.12

(4)

Shawn

- Thor665, Nekoko, Sakura Hana, TheIrishPope
(2)

TheIrishPope

- MontyWhittaker, Shawn
(1)

Commandodude

- sycorax
(1)

Sakura Hana

- Commandodude

(0)

MontyWhittaker

-

(Shawn)

(1)

Not voting

- Ms Marangal


Ms Marangal is V/LA until April 24.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.
The deadline is May 4 at 10:35 PM PDT. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-05-04 22:35:00)

[Shawn]

Yes.
Now vote the one doing the same thing and not admitting to it. At least Commandodude admitted they weren't reading gak and appears to care little about the game.
Guess which player look slike scum and which like a player who just isn't reading?

My apologies, I was wrong.

You know what? Irish is so dumb he is town.
UNVOTE: Irish
Ok next scummy player.
Thor. I have been flipflopping on my read on him throughout this game. But now I think that he is firmly scum. Not reading the thread isnt scummy in its own right, but apparently the the most objective scumtell to Thor ever. He never explains why not reading the thread promotes a scum objective. Also he says that I dont care about the lynch and he provides absolutely no proof beyond that. These are his only 2 points. And all he has been doing is, SHAWN SO SCUM LYNCH THIS GUY NOW!!!!!!!!!. He has been tunneling me and is still tunneling me, does he still think anyone else is scum? I have no idea. And thats not a good thing.

[Shawn]

VOTE: Thor665
Any way I can see his past games other than just looking through all his posts?

[Sakura Hana]

Just wondering, Thor why are you so eager to end the day early?

[Nekoko]

Well, it would seem to me we are at a crossroads. I will stay neutral for a while, given I have voted for the most obvious scum and people still see me as scum.
Also, if we do lynch Shawn and he flips town, remember I voted for Commandodude, and don't make up things.

UNVOTE: Shawn

I wanted to stay neutral. Like, you know, before Commandodude arrived. And that worked out well, no?
However, I do agree with your logic. Pressure is the basis of Mafia.
VOTE: Shawn

Actually this makes you more suspicious than what have you intended.

Indeed, i'd say Town should be worried about their image, because if the Town sees them as scum, mislynch happens, and considering scum knows who's scum and Town they'll obv. shoot Town during the night, next day Town is 2 heads down, just because one Towny didnt worry about their image.

Town should care more about scum-hunting than their image. In doing so they will indirectly improve their image as town.

@Nekoko: My read on Monty is PoE for the most part. He doesn't have enough posts for me to get a good feel for him, though his posts feel contrived and crowd Followy

He appears to be posting just for the sake of posting but I think Shawn is a better choice today.
Also I see you're still not voting someone. Why is that?

So you're implying Irish is busing?

That is a possibility that's why Shawn > commandodude

Also lol, Shawn telling people they're stupid won't help him convince people

[Nekoko]

Oh sorry, what was the question?

Or you could just check his previous posts

[Nekoko]

Shawn is always defending himself using WIFOM.
He says scum wouldn't care about their image.
So people say he acts scummy or anti-town but he still
continues with it and he still doesn't care.
I think that is very disturbing.

[Ms Marangal]

Tell me why Shawn is scum.

and I'm not voting because... I'm not ready to place a vote down yet. I have stated many times over in many of my games that I won't probably place a vote until I am sure of a read.

Pedit: ok, but what do you think of the other posts? what do you think of my comments on town-shawn?

[Sakura Hana]

Well fmpov even if Shawn turns out town, avoiding or skipping questions isn't helping the town, nor his case, Keeping townies that are viewed as scum would help the mafia, since they usually tend to shot down townies that are mostly viewed as towny to ensure their victory.

This however doesn't change the fact that fmpov Shawny is a scum, specially with his constant WIFOMing when he's in a tight spot, and from what I mentioned in the previous paragraph, avoiding/skipping questions is avoiding discussion... I don't see why a towny wouldn't answer questions, but i can see lots of reasons for a scum to avoid questions.

[Ms Marangal]

Quite honestly, I have skipped answering question because I have missed it originally, or I don't know what the specific question is or how to answer it. I also don't answer questions that I don't know the answer to. looking at your iso, the more you 1v1 him, the more assumptions you make about him which, IMO is a sign of a tunelling townie.

[Ms Marangal]

You know what? Irish is so dumb he is town.

Shawn making conclusions like this and dropping his reads scarily quick is probably another sign that he is town and not scum. I don't see how "Irish looking dumb" makes him town, he could very well be scum who is looking dumb so people will overlook him.

[Nekoko]

Pedit: ok, but what do you think of the other posts? what do you think of my comments on town-shawn?

@ Shawn: you can have a point against Thor but at this point in time, I'm not seeing it. The fact that you admit that you may be tunneling and thus want the opinion of others comforts me greatly. At present though, I think your case on Thor isn't that great, though I don't think Thor's case on you is all that great either. I'm not getting the Thor-town read I have gotten from Thor in other games I had with him so maybe sell me on why Thor is scum?

Is this what you are referring to MM?

[Sakura Hana]

Then tell me how is Shawny helping scumhunt in any way? if you're reading him as town then could you explain his WIFOM when comando was at L-2?. What are your reads on everyone?

[Nekoko]

He admitted he was tunneling after posting this

You guys need to differentiate bad play and scum play. Totally different. IMO, commandodude and mine are bad play(yes im town :O so surprising)

which is another attempt to defend himself using WIFOM, so I found him not credible.

[Sakura Hana]

now that you mention it... he's saying his play is bad, yet he also says he's experienced?

[Nekoko]

Thor. I have been flipflopping on my read on him throughout this game. But now I think that he is firmly scum. Not reading the thread isnt scummy in its own right, but apparently the the most objective scumtell to Thor ever. He never explains why not reading the thread promotes a scum objective. Also he says that I dont care about the lynch and he provides absolutely no proof beyond that. These are his only 2 points. And all he has been doing is, SHAWN SO SCUM LYNCH THIS GUY NOW!!!!!!!!!. He has been tunneling me and is still tunneling me, does he still think anyone else is scum? I have no idea. And thats not a good thing.

You've said he was town at one point but now you find him scum.
I think the gist of why you found him scummy was because you think he was tunneling you
but you also admit that you might be tunneling in Post #317.
Why is thor scummy and you're not

[Ms Marangal]

Mmm...

that's one of the points, guess I didn't really make a case on town-Shawn.

His reasons for scum reads, and reasons for town reads are somewhat understandable though I don't agree with them. He's also consistent with his strongest read, which is, IMO inherently town. I'm really hard-pressed to find any scum motivations behind his posts.

If he was scum, why would he protect commando dude like that? should he get lynched and end up scum, Shawn would likely be the next target and it would be insta-lose for them if they are the team. Wk'ing scum? sure, that's a possibility though I doubt it, especially with Commando not really being here. Shawn is pretty effectively town

Pedit:

@ Sakura, he's asking questions and attacking his main suspects. He's asking why people think certain things, and his defense of commando could easily be town who doesn't want a town read lynched... or a person who doesn't want a speed lynch to occur, which is probably town motivated.

@ Nekoko, how is that trying to defend himself using WIFOM? He has a point in, people

need

to learn how to differentiate between bad play and scum play. too many people in this game is drawing similarities between the two, I don't really think his play is bad but w/e he says go I guess...

I don't tend to give out my reads unless I am addressing person who I think is scum, or defending person who I think town.

[Nekoko]

Yeah I think there is a disconnect here. He's pulling the bad play card to defend himself
but when he talks, it's as if he knows a lot.

[Shawn]

What in the actual fuck do you want me to do? WIFOM isnt useless. Read the stuff I said. If it makes sense to you, good. If it doesnt, then well Im sorry and I would want to clarify.
Sakura, if you would be so kind, can you put to me all the questions that I failed to answer?
Also there is no reason at all to lynch a 'bad' townie, they are still townies and count towards the number that scum needs to eliminate to win. The point of this lynch is to lynch SCUM. Thats all. So since you said that I could be a bad townie, do you want to see whether Im scum or a bad townie? Why are you not giving thought to the other side of the equation?

[Nekoko]

@ Nekoko, how is that trying to defend himself using WIFOM? He has a point in, people need to learn how to differentiate between bad play and scum play. too many people in this game is drawing similarities between the two, I don't really think his play is bad but w/e he says go I guess...

He's saying he's doing a bad play therefore he can't be scum. That's how I see it

[Shawn]

To clarify about 'bad' play,
I think that my play is fucking awesome, pressuring dudes, making scum scared. Does me saying that that help anyone? No. So seeing it from your perspective, I am a 'bad' townie. Now as a townie,
1. I wanna lynch scum. Thats who im trying to find is scum.
2. I dont wanna get mislynched.
3. I dont wanna mislynch town.
Right so do you think that my play has followed this? Or is totally different?

[Sakura Hana]

Fair enough... tho he's still one of my biggest leads in the scum radar, and i have atm no one else that can be scummy (either that or i fail at reading people), so my vote stays where it is for now. I've accepted the possibility, of him being town, but he's still my current lowest town read of everyone in here. Because yeah, Mislynching a towny is bad, but out of Mislynching a towny who is obvtowny and Mislynching a Towny who is maybe towny, i prefer the latter. If i find scum reads on someone else, then my vote will change.

P-Edit: I've asked you several times to pull up a case on why you think Irish is scum, yet you never did, and now you flopped your vote out, was this because of his "dumb play"? or because you realized you couldn't actually make a case on him.

[Nekoko]

Thor. I have been flipflopping on my read on him throughout this game. But now I think that he is firmly scum. Not reading the thread isnt scummy in its own right, but apparently the the most objective scumtell to Thor ever. He never explains why not reading the thread promotes a scum objective. Also he says that I dont care about the lynch and he provides absolutely no proof beyond that. These are his only 2 points. And all he has been doing is, SHAWN SO SCUM LYNCH THIS GUY NOW!!!!!!!!!. He has been tunneling me and is still tunneling me, does he still think anyone else is scum? I have no idea. And thats not a good thing.

You've said he was town at one point but now you find him scum.
I think the gist of why you found him scummy was because you think he was tunneling you
but you also admit that you might be tunneling in Post #317.
Why is thor scummy and you're not

[Sakura Hana]

@Shawny: And as you know... there's a 22% chance of lynching scum on D1 (i think?) to begin with, tho depending on what the lynchee flips and the N1 Kill, looking back on D1 we can start drawing conclusions, of course i'd love to find scum, but i find it highly unlikely, since so far, everyone looks town to me except you, and if you're really town, then what am i supposed to do?