MINI 1423 Dark Souls: Prepare to die....YOU DIED

VP Baltar · Post Post #1150 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:04 pm

Mostly because I think you're competent enough to fool me easy enough. Not that emp isn't, I just think if he's scum it'd stick out to me more. That being said, I haven't played in a long time and my meta reads on either of you really need to be irrelevant in my consideration. I need to make a pro con analysis of each of you within the context of this game.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1151 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:48 pm

In post 1150, VP Baltar wrote:Mostly because I think you're competent enough to fool me easy enough. Not that emp isn't, I just think if he's scum it'd stick out to me more. That being said, I haven't played in a long time and my meta reads on either of you really need to be irrelevant in my consideration. I need to make a pro con analysis of each of you within the context of this game.

Fair enough. I might reread later, but I've definitely done enough of that. I'd rather see what you two come up with first.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1152 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:46 pm

Eh, I don't really think you (or anyone left alive) really has the luxury of 'I'm so town I'm just going to sit here and watch you guys fight it out.' Laziness at this point should simply be taken as a pro-scum attitude. I think everyone needs to present valid arguments as to who they think is scum and why.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1153 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:50 pm

Right now, I think you are scum for the same reason you think I am scum, with the added bonus of nightkills that are very... VP Baltar oriented. The switch from "third party survivor" to "scum that is competent enough to fool me" instantly was also a bit weird, and I'm not sure HD would go after both scumpartners in the way he did. The PV bus in and of itself was already a bit strange, but if he saw you pushing hard for a scumbuddy, it's not really out of the realm of possibility for him to take an experienced scumpartner's lead.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1154 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:52 pm

VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1155 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:00 pm

And do you really think scum plan the night before HD got lynched was "okay, we no-kill despite avoiding shooting VPB because of being afraid of a protective role to set up for OUR protective role claims even though that doesn't work if we don't have protective roles"? Or do you have something that makes a lot more sense?

VP Baltar · Post Post #1156 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:22 pm

In post 1153, Nachomamma8 wrote:The switch from "third party survivor" to "scum that is competent enough to fool me" instantly was also a bit weird,

Not really. You pointed out a very valid reason why I was being stupid in even speculating that. Thinking of the survivor angle was a byproduct of second guessing my putting both you and Emp in the town column all game. It's not an after thought as you seem to be suggesting.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1157 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:24 pm

In post 1154, Nachomamma8 wrote:VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?

I think it's one possible angle, and it's not without its merits. I don't think setup speculation makes you confirmed town.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1158 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:26 pm

In post 1155, Nachomamma8 wrote:And do you really think scum plan the night before HD got lynched was "okay, we no-kill despite avoiding shooting VPB because of being afraid of a protective role to set up for OUR protective role claims even though that doesn't work if we don't have protective roles"? Or do you have something that makes a lot more sense?

I think this type of speculation is particularly beyond useful. If you're telling the truth and you're town, sure this makes absolute sense to you. To me, it's just unconfirmable speculation that doesn't mean anything certain to me.

As an aside, I don't think judging from our two dead scum so far, we've exactly seen what I'd call logical scum play, so etc.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1159 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:45 pm

In post 1156, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1153, Nachomamma8 wrote:The switch from "third party survivor" to "scum that is competent enough to fool me" instantly was also a bit weird,
Not really. You pointed out a very valid reason why I was being stupid in even speculating that. Thinking of the survivor angle was a byproduct of second guessing my putting both you and Emp in the town column all game. It's not an after thought as you seem to be suggesting.

It's a strange thought, but I wonder why third party was your initial assumption as opposed to "scum", which you brought up second. Considering me third party means that you think me not-scum, meaning that you have some special reason to think me so. Otherwise, why didn't Emp get the honor of being suspected of a third party survivor?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1160 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:46 pm

In post 1157, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1154, Nachomamma8 wrote:VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?
I think it's one possible angle, and it's not without its merits. I don't think setup speculation makes you confirmed town.

That's a lot of waffling. Is setup speculation a point in my favor? Yes, or no?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1161 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:46 pm

In post 1158, VP Baltar wrote:As an aside, I don't think judging from our two dead scum so far, we've exactly seen what I'd call logical scum play, so etc.

But I think you and I are competent enough to be logical scum players. Don't you?

VP Baltar · Post Post #1162 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:06 pm

In post 1159, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1156, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1153, Nachomamma8 wrote:The switch from "third party survivor" to "scum that is competent enough to fool me" instantly was also a bit weird,
Not really. You pointed out a very valid reason why I was being stupid in even speculating that. Thinking of the survivor angle was a byproduct of second guessing my putting both you and Emp in the town column all game. It's not an after thought as you seem to be suggesting.
It's a strange thought, but I wonder why third party was your initial assumption as opposed to "scum", which you brought up second. Considering me third party means that you think me not-scum, meaning that you have some special reason to think me so. Otherwise, why didn't Emp get the honor of being suspected of a third party survivor?

oh I get what you're saying. Mostly because I read you as town because I saw you as legitimately scum hunting. So, survivor fits with that read of your play.

actually, now that I'm thinking about it more, isn't the typical wincon of a survivor not just to outlive the scum but to also make up at least 50% of the surviving players?

VP Baltar · Post Post #1163 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:08 pm

In post 1160, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1157, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1154, Nachomamma8 wrote:VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?
I think it's one possible angle, and it's not without its merits. I don't think setup speculation makes you confirmed town.
That's a lot of waffling. Is setup speculation a point in my favor? Yes, or no?

I think what I said is accurate. It's not fully one or the other. That's not waffling so much as being realistic. False dichotomies are false.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1164 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:09 pm

OK, guess typical survivor is just to live until someone achieves a wincon, so doesn't matter about 50%.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1165 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:11 pm

In post 1163, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1160, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1157, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1154, Nachomamma8 wrote:VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?
I think it's one possible angle, and it's not without its merits. I don't think setup speculation makes you confirmed town.
That's a lot of waffling. Is setup speculation a point in my favor? Yes, or no?
I think what I said is accurate. It's not fully one or the other. That's not waffling so much as being realistic. False dichotomies are false.

No it obviously doesn't make me confirmed town. But giving your opinion on it would be awesome.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1166 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:13 pm

I think it's a legit point. I thought that was clear.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1167 (ISO) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:14 pm

Perfect. I want to talk to Emp now.

Empking · Post Post #1168 (ISO) » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:38 am

In post 1167, Nachomamma8 wrote:Perfect. I want to talk to Emp now.

What do you want to talk about?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1169 (ISO) » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:31 pm

A few things, here and there. Is there anything other than "VP is protown" and "Nacho has setup speculation on his side" that you have to share before I ask you questions? Commenting on #1130 would probably be a good place to start.

Empking · Post Post #1170 (ISO) » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:07 pm

1130 makes me sad for what was; in my defence scum-me would have known what he was going to flip.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1171 (ISO) » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:49 am

Working my way through a full retread of the thread and I have some good stuff so far. Ill have a substantial post in the next day or two.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1172 (ISO) » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:50 am

I lost my phone and my wallet and everything so I need to find them before I return.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1173 (ISO) » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:11 am

Empking, why do you think your reads have been so bad this game?

Empking · Post Post #1174 (ISO) » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:48 am

In post 1173, VP Baltar wrote:Empking, why do you think your reads have been so bad this game?

Because my core town read was wrong