Micro 164: Epic Mafia (Game Over)

[Rob14]

Rmp - I don't speculate on partners (or at least make an effort not to) in any meaningful sense pre-twilight because doing so makes my reads dependent on each other. It creates a situation where if one of my reads is wrong, they're all useless. I prefer independent reads that I adjust with each flip. I can direct you to meta where I explain this on-site several times in many different games, both as town and scum, if anyone wishes.

Also, I think you intentionally avoided the OMGUS by searching for a BS reason to vote Dav/fuzzy. You had some decent reasoning/attacks before you voted Dav/Fuzzy - you just weren't willing to vote off of something that could be considered OMGUS. If you had plopped down a vote from the start, I would have a town read on you, probably. It's the way in which you refused to vote until you found a reason unrelated to his vote on you that I heavily dislike and think is scummy.

Jake, do you have any reasoning behind that vote?

As side notes:

1. This game is still on MS. I'm going to play expecting the MS level of play due to the site we're on. If you don't think that's the best way to play or don't like being held to that level, I guess my thoughts are just....too bad? You're playing on a site with a different site meta than EM, and I'm not going to lower the level of play that I'm playing at or expect others to lower their levels of play to level the playing field between EM and MS players.

2. I don't mean to be mean to anyone from EM. I dislike the site in general, but I don't have any feelings one way or the other for specific users. The EM site meta contains many habits that I don't like and don't think are useful to finding scum. When I referred to Bubba as a VI, I simply meant that he was not currently displaying the level of play that I expect from a long-term MS user. This doesn't surprise me, because the EM user-base tends to play at a lower level than MS. Again, I'm not meaning this to be insulting. It just is how it is. I apologize if I'm offending anyone, but this is how I see things and I'm not going to sugar-coat my thoughts or reads. Doing so is unproductive. This goes hand in hand with the above point about not lowering my level of play to make the playing field equal between all users.

3. At rmp's request, I'll try to denote Dav as Dav/Fuzzy to help identify him. Can't guarantee I'll remember to do this every time, but I'll make an effort.

[Jake from State Farm]

Cause it felt right

[Rob14]

So you're the Om of this game, then? Fair enough.

[rmpeacoc]

3. At rmp's request, I'll try to denote Dav as Dav/Fuzzy to help identify him. Can't guarantee I'll remember to do this every time, but I'll make an effort.

Thank you.

Regardless I'd rather that you didn't speculate about us being Em players. Our style isn't worse than yours, you just think it is. You should at least take our thoughts into consideration.

You should maybe reconsider your read on me. I don't change my vote on a whim. So yeah I might have had reason in the beginning, but his vote to no lynch and then saying he didn't read the setup.. and also the fact that he is STILL voting to No Lynch after realizing that we are going to lynch today... I think that's warrants my vote on him.

[bubbajack8]

Rob you are an asshole. You are saying I'm the VI when I garuntee me and RMP have played mafia LONGER then you have. I understand mafia. I understand this setup. It is an EM setup.

What I don't understand is why you are such an asshole about it.

You literally said you are from EM so you are terrible.

Well then I'm voting rmp to put her at L-1 you seem convinced she's scum. And when she flips town you'll see how shitty YOU are.

VOTE: rmp

[Rob14]

Rmp, not changing your vote on a whim would be a good defense....if your vote at the time had any reasoning behind it. I'm of the opposite school of thought regarding voting (change votes often to apply pressure in the early game), but even those who are infrequent voters should be willing to change their vote from an RVS vote to a substantiated vote when they've spent multiple pages reasonably sure that the person was scum.

And I am/will continue to take your thoughts and those of other EM players into consideration. All I've said is that I will apply the same analysis that I would use on MSers reads to determine their usefulness when analyzing your reads. If I haven't communicated that well, then that's my bad. At the moment, I disagree with you, though, on the subject of Dav/fuzzy. Not reading/fully understanding the setup is a minor town read, not a scum read. Scum are on the look out for PR tells, so the first thing they do in an open is read the setup to determine what PR tells they're looking for. And until you explain to me the scum motivation behind voting a no lynch, I don't think that is a tell one way or the other.

P-edit: Bubba is town. I stand by my earlier statements. I did not say you are from EM, therefore you are terrible. I said that you are from EM, therefore there is an increased likelihood of you being terrible based on my past experiences playing with EM players. In this case, it appears I was correct, as you just voted a null-read when you have two scum reads in order to prove a point to one of your scum reads, which makes absolutely no sense. That doesn't mean all EM players are bad - rmp appears to be posting decently even if I don't agree with many of her points and think some of her actions have been scum-motivated - certainly a lot better than I've come to expect from the EM players I've played with in the past. I'm going to stop talking to you, however, so that I do not violate the universal "don't be a dick" rule.

Oh, by the way, I forgot to address the "rmp is a girl" alert a few posts back. I'm sorry if I've been using any male pronouns. I'll make an effort to correct that. I tend to default to male pronouns on the internet for whatever reason - I know, I'm a heteronormative dick. Keep bugging me if I slip up, as it will help me remember to address you properly.

[BBmolla]

BBmolla is being BBmolla, which seems to always read as scum to me. I eyetwitched at the continued pressure on rmp after he had already unvoted from him. It seems to be a weird thought process to follow. Reconsider read on rmp --> Vote Bubba --> Continue to find reasons to justify prior vote on rmp. Kind of funky. Could be partners? That's a bit of a long-shot, though.

I'm pointing out how silly peacoc is, it's different.

[Rob14]

BBmolla is being BBmolla, which seems to always read as scum to me. I eyetwitched at the continued pressure on rmp after he had already unvoted from him. It seems to be a weird thought process to follow. Reconsider read on rmp --> Vote Bubba --> Continue to find reasons to justify prior vote on rmp. Kind of funky. Could be partners? That's a bit of a long-shot, though.

I'm pointing out how silly peacoc is, it's different.

Current thoughts on Bubba?

[BBmolla]

Also this is an EM setup with EM players. If you don't like us/it. Replace out.

It's not that we don't like you, your tells are just wrong.

3. BBMolla is from EM I do believe? I'm sure some of you have also played on EM before.

Yeah I am, my first few games my tells and such were still from EM too. Just be aware that most EM tells don't apply here.

FWIW Jake is probably scum this game of some flavor.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jake

Rob you are an asshole. You are saying I'm the VI when I garuntee me and RMP have played mafia LONGER then you have. I understand mafia. I understand this setup. It is an EM setup.

Doesn't mean you understand forum mafia better than those who have played forum mafia longer, get off your high horse kid.

Bubba's probably town yeah. Peacoc too. You possibly Rob.

[BBmolla]

I just played scum with Jake, I don't think he knows how to play because of it.

[Jake from State Farm]

sup molla

[Rob14]

I just played scum with Jake, I don't think he knows how to play because of it.

If it's completed (I assume it is, since you're talking about it), can you link it?

[bubbajack8]

In all reality Jake hasn't said much, so he could be mafia. Or the ACTUAL VI.

When he flips scum (fuzzy) am I allowed back on my high horse?

[Jake from State Farm]

I just played scum with Jake, I don't think he knows how to play because of it.

If it's completed (I assume it is, since you're talking about it), can you link it?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=26594

[Jake from State Farm]

In all reality Jake hasn't said much, so he could be mafia. Or the ACTUAL VI.

When he flips scum (fuzzy) am I allowed back on my high horse?

not saying much is a scumtell?

[Rob14]

High horse is never okay. It quickly leads to 7for7s.

[BBmolla]

I just played scum with Jake, I don't think he knows how to play because of it.

I was gonna elaborate on this but mod would whine

He isn't sure how he should play now that I know his scum meta so he's barely posting

[BBmolla]

Or the ACTUAL VI.

No you're the VI, sorry mate.

Lynch Jake though, he's claiming scum.

[Rob14]

Oh, then that's extremely weak as a read. You think that just because he's played with you once, he's so fearful that you've 100% figured out his scum meta that he doesn't post entirely? Do you have anything in particular that makes you think that? If not, then I'm inclined to disregard it as unlikely.

[Rob14]

On the other hand, Jake, please contribute something or explain why you aren't. You're online. You have enough time to find meme images to post. Surely you have time to write a few sentences with reads.

[rmpeacoc]

Lets stop comparing EM with MS and appreciate that we all have different opinions.

Anyway...

Rob I see where you're coming from so unfortunately the only defense I have is that in this case your tells are wrong. I see how you're thinking...

I find it curious that no one else has a need to look at the fact that Fuzzy has acknowledged that he knows the setup but has yet to unvote his no lynch....

I still think fuzzy is scum, and I'll stand by that.

Bubba, I think you should stay away from the term VI from now on.

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't get it, I don't have much to go on right now. What do you want me to say?

[BBmolla]

I don't get it, I don't have much to go on right now. What do you want me to say?

You Traitor or maf?

[bubbajack8]

Lynch Jake though, he's claiming scum.

no he's not?

He said that not talking much isn't a scumtell?

Where do you see he "is claiming scum"

Also I'm going to put my vote back on my fos VOTE: fuzzy

2nd fos BBmolla for trying to push an easy town lynch.

[rmpeacoc]

and why did you vote me in the first place?