Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[Shawn]

It makes sense, I agree, but that doesn't make him a better lynch than you, so i'm asking you?

cause Im town. What I just said that we should never lynch for info, even more so that we dont have a deadline looming. Why lynch town when you can lynch scum? Also think about it. If your scumread posts a case you agree with then is your scumread still scummy?

[MontyWhittaker]

You guys know what? I have been looking at Monty recently and guess what I found? Scum.
Let me tell you why.

1. He is the lurkiest dude in this game and lurking is a scumtell. Whats more is that with his low number of posts, 4, he hasnt advanced any read but posted the blendiest stuff imaginable. He asks questions he never follows up upon, all his posts are strictly in line with town sentiment.

2.

Sorry, I feel so overwhelmed right now. I haven't posted because I either haven't had anything to add or it's already been posted by someone. For what it's worth, with so many votes in this game already, I feel like The Irish Pope has "suspicions" that he is leading people to vote toward, yet feels no conviction to vote for them himself. That is enough to warrant my vote:
VOTE: TheIrishPope

Lets look at this post. It seems like monty is overwhelmed with the game. However apparently he has read enough to determine that by Irish Pope's posts, that Irish is trying to mislead town. This is quite a deep conclusion I think, and not one I expect from someone who is 'overwhelmed'. Also this conclusion is wrong, and if he actually read the thread enough to determine such a deep conclusion, he should know that Irish has no pull with anyone and obviously cant 'lead people to vote'.

3.

Indeed you do. Quite astute of you. Shawn, I am troubled by your consistent movement only because it doesn't seem motivated by a town-based interest. You are flighty, much as though you were attempting to spread as much confusion as possible. Just so we are clear, what are your feelings about people at this point in the game, and how have they changed as the game has progressed?

This post comes at a time where I am under heavy pressure, and is a summary of the some of the stuff that has been leveled at me. He then asks the most general question I have ever seen and I dont remember responding to it and he never follows it up with anything. He is trying to blend in with the town by being suspicious of me as it was the hot topic, possibly thinking of a way to get his vote on to me.

Monty is scum in this town because he has offered no new insights, has tried to get on townie bandwagons, me and Irish and is lurking the fuck out of this game cause he has been under NO PRESSURE. Lets start with this.
UNVOTE: Thor
VOTE: MontyWhittaker

1. How does one "advance a read". This is a game of logic, not popularity. A lot of things people say in this thread make sense, but the fact is that only six of us, at most, are correct. Choosing to "advance" someone that I am not fairly certain is correct does nothing to help anyone.

2. It's not that "deep" of a conclusion. It's a fact. He shifts votes, or at least had been at the time of my post. However, since then, he has made some observations that I have found interesting to say the least. With that slight justification, I will

UNVOTE: TheIrishPope.

Secondly, you contradict yourself in your read of me. You say that I make deep conclusions, but go on to say that they are wrong, and I am obviously not paying attention to the thread. Think about this with me: you accuse me of actually reading more than I am letting on and not reading the thread well at all with the same post.

3. You are correct that you never responded to the question, and I am amazed that you are brazen enough to continue not answering. My only assumption can be that you were hoping that I would not follow up with the question, which obviously makes me question why you would want that.

My suspicions are still strongly on you in jumping, and the only reason you aren't getting a vote from me now is that I don't wish to quickhammer until I am more certain.

[Sakura Hana]

Ok time to isolate Shawn then:

yay
Um
so lynch dudes.

Commandodude.
talk

Eager to lynch, weird connection with Commandodude.

I would think that whatever you write in your first post is reasonably important to you, yes.

^ Furthers on his reasoning that the first post is very important. Then contradicted by:

Why so dumb? First post in the thread, chose random dude.

Then why is choosing someone random important for you?

Overstating that he's town, you don't need to claim you're town to look like town to others, the more you say "I'm town" the more i'm inclined to believe you're scum.

Well, sorry i didn't know that pointing out the fact that it was my first game was bad, but since first posts are important then this bothers me:

yay
Um
so lynch dudes.

Why so eager to lynch someone?

Because if we no lynch, town loses.

duh.

commandodude and mine are bad play(yes im town :O so surprising)

Why do you have to say you have a bad play?, why do you have to state you're town with a bad play?.

That doesnt work Sakura, you cant say quickhammerer's are scum.

Actually moving my vote around is townie, scum dont want to move cause PRESSURE like this.
Town dont care, I dont care.

Irish, do you care more about your image or more about lynching mafia?
Irish is the epitome of caring about his image, look at his recent posts. He wants to 'stay neutral', he is worried that if I flip town, he would be 'implicated'. Yeah town dont care about shit like that.

Fuck everyone and everything else, I wanna lynch this dude.

UNVOTE: Monty
VOTE: Irish

This looks scummy to me.

Yeah I play on tlmafia.

So you are experienced, even after you claimed town with bad play, Interesting, tell me more.

Sakura, Shawn is town. Stop this TvT now.

Thor, the "you're so pro-town that your scum" was me referring to your case on Shawn, not me. I also did not defend Shawn in 209, I never defended Shawn actually. I stated my dislike for his wagon, but I never defended him

that being said,

@ Shawn: you

can

have a point against Thor but at this point in time, I'm not seeing it. The fact that you admit that you may be tunneling and thus want the opinion of others comforts me greatly. At present though, I think your case on Thor isn't that great, though I don't think Thor's case on you is all that great either. I'm not getting the Thor-town read I have gotten from Thor in other games I had with him so maybe sell me on why Thor is scum?

@ Sakura: Commando is irritatingly Anti-town, I can agree with you there but Can town not be doing the same thing he has been doing? furthermore, I think it's great that you think that town

should

care about how they think but I disagree. My reasons for my town read on Commando are pretty similar to Shawn's reasons. I'm inclined to believe that he's trolling town at this point

@Nekoko: My read on Monty is PoE for the most part. He doesn't have enough posts for me to get a good feel for him, though his posts feel contrived and crowd Followy

My read on Thor is that that post was really fucking awful. Like thats one of the worst posts Ive ever seen, because he was hopping around everywhere, sniping at individual posts, not looking at the big picture, not having any conclusions, and nothing about the state of the game so far with Irish and me.

Just LYNCH SHAWN CAUSE HE DEFENDED COMMANDO, I DONT KNOW WHY THATS SCUMMY BUT LYNCH HIM ANYWAY!!?!?!

I dont wanna lynch him today though, I would like to solidify my read first.

Obvious misrep right there.

To clarify about 'bad' play,

I think that my play is fucking awesome, pressuring dudes, making scum scared.

Does me saying that that help anyone? No. So seeing it from your perspective, I am a 'bad' townie. Now as a townie,
1. I wanna lynch scum. Thats who im trying to find is scum.

2. I dont wanna get mislynched.
3. I dont wanna mislynch town.

Right so do you think that my play has followed this? Or is totally different?

More "I'm town" yells.

Fascinating Irish,

I WIFOM therefore im scum.

Think about it. Is it scummy? OR ARE YOU BEING BRAINWASHED BY THOR!!!!
If you are sheeping Thor, just say so.

I'd say WIFOMing when you're or on the verge of being lynched it's quite the scumtell, lol @ brainwash comment

So you caught me lying

= you are town? That makes no sense
What is your question exactly? Why I lied?

Also

Because "careless town" would be scared to admit they gakked up, whereas scum lying totally wouldn't try to hide that fact.

I cant WIFOM but you can? Man that sucks

pedit: Reasons that are different from Thor's Irish?

Admitting to lying.

Makes me sad that you are not reading Sakura

.
What I just posted was not opinions, its how to play the game.

You cannot think that we are both scum because it makes no sense.

So if you think that both of us are scum, 1 read is wrong. And you should probably try and see which one is.

Now you say i'm the one not reading, and again misrep's me.

Ops, should have used the quote thing in topic review rather than posting, oh well.

What do you feel about lurky blendy monty?

I already gave my opinion on him way back in Post 413, if you cared to read instead of making stuff up, you'd know by now, he hasn't posted since then, so it makes sense that my stance on him hasn't changed.

Lurking isnt a feeling. Can you expand?

Also whatever about what you think of thor.

Again didn't read and misreps me.

On Another note, what do we learn by Lynching Monty? i think we learn a lot more by Lynching Shawn, and if there is a cop (i'm just assuming there is) we can have them investigate Monty during the night, if there's no cop then, guess we can start interrogating him on D2.

IMO: Lynching Monty if Town... we learn nothing, he hasn't interacted with anyone. If scum... we learn nothing either. Either way no one's assured Town and no one's assured scum.
Lynching Shawny if Scum, Thor is certain to be Town (i highly doubt he would pull off a Bus on D1) and MM has higher chance of being scum. If Town, then Thor has a high chance of being scum and MM has a high chance of being Town.

Am i missing something here?

We lynch scum.

This kind of mindset is wrong. We shouldnt play to lynch the dude that gives the most 'info' which might not even be accurate depending on circumstances. Like for example, I get lynched, and I flip town. That doesnt definitely Thor scum, nor does it make MM scum either.
Why not just depend on your ability to read the person as town/scum?

What do you think about my case?

Tell me something i don't know, also there's very low chance to find and lynch scum on D1 as it is, but from the flip results we can start to draw conclusions from previous days.

It makes sense, I agree, but that doesn't make him a better lynch than you, so i'm asking you?

cause Im town.

What I just said that we should never lynch for info, even more so that we dont have a deadline looming. Why lynch town when you can lynch scum? Also think about it. If your scumread posts a case you agree with then is your scumread still scummy?

And again on the "i'm town" claim.

Your playstyle seems really odd, some contradictions between your own posts, keeps claiming "I'm town", misreps people and pushes it against them, clearly lying and trying to divert attention while in a though situation

tl;dr Shawn is scum.

[Shawn]

I accuse you of making up bullshit about Irish to justify your vote on him. It looks like a decent read, but its false because Irish has no pull with the thread at all.

I didnt respond to the question. It was a stupid question because it was so general. It looked like you were asking questions for the sake of it but didnt want to engage me directly on a certain point that you found weird or scummy.

[Sakura Hana]

@Monty: Why did you wait until you were called out by Shawn and not earlier to unvote Irish?

[Shawn]

Town claims are null.
Dont be so fucking defeatist, it is possible to lynch scum. And as I said earlier, the associations with me hold not much water at all so you dont actually get much info from my lynch.

There was 1 misrep about the commando thing. Thats the only one that you guys keep repeating. What can I say about that other than it was not intentional?

Everything else in your case is not alignment indicative

[Sakura Hana]

I can see more reason for a scum to claim town than for a town to claim town, just saying.

[Shawn]

I can see more reason for a scum to claim town than for a town to claim town, just saying.

just saying ive seen everyone regardless of alignment claim town. Its not alignment indicative, believe me.

[Sakura Hana]

Claiming Town while being Town:
Advantages: None, We will already know you're one by your playstyle anyways.
Disadvantages: Scum already knows who's town and who's scum, it gives scum a lesser pool to look for PRs.

Claiming Town while being Scum:
Advantages: Makes them appear pro-town to the Town, just because they are saying so, and Town doesn't have a reason to lie.
Disadvantages: None, Scum knows you're scum anyways.

[Shawn]

Claiming Town while being Town:
Advantages: None, We will already know you're one by your playstyle anyways.
Disadvantages: Scum already knows who's town and who's scum, it gives scum a lesser pool to look for PRs.

Claiming Town while being Scum:
Advantages: Makes them appear pro-town to the Town, just because they are saying so, and Town doesn't have a reason to lie.
Disadvantages: None, Scum knows you're scum anyways.

There is no disadvantages to claiming Vanilla town.

For me personally, I 'claim' town because when I talk about my own alignment, I have to say something right? So yeah.
I treat town claims as null so I dont see any advantages to either side.

[MontyWhittaker]

I was asking you in an attempt to gauge how you were feeling at the time, as your consistent accusations were yielding no clues as to your motive. I would still appreciate an answer to that question...

Sakura, there were two reasons. The first is that I am still trying to get engaged in this game. I have trouble responding if I don't have something very specific in my mind to warrant a response. The second is that there was no need at that point to keep a vote on TheIrishPope. While he has by no means completely validated his innocence, neither has he done enough to continue warranting my suspicions of him as scum.

PEdit: Shawn, you say there are no disadvantages to claiming Vanilla Town. However, that does nothing to refute what Sakura said. Is there a reason for you making that claim in light of Sakura's statement, or do you simply have to find something to disagree with in everything people say?

[Sakura Hana]

You could also be lying to get my vote off you, so i'll just wait on everyone else's input.

[Sakura Hana]

Monty, maybe he'll be more willing to reply if you state an "Intent to Hammer"? You said the only reason you arent voting him is to avoid quickhammering him until you're more certain, is this a soft claim to intent to hammer?

[Shawn]

I was asking you in an attempt to gauge how you were feeling at the time, as your consistent accusations were yielding no clues as to your motive. I would still appreciate an answer to that question...

Sakura, there were two reasons. The first is that I am still trying to get engaged in this game. I have trouble responding if I don't have something very specific in my mind to warrant a response. The second is that there was no need at that point to keep a vote on TheIrishPope. While he has by no means completely validated his innocence, neither has he done enough to continue warranting my suspicions of him as scum.

PEdit: Shawn, you say there are no disadvantages to claiming Vanilla Town. However, that does nothing to refute what Sakura said. Is there a reason for you making that claim in light of Sakura's statement, or do you simply have to find something to disagree with in everything people say?

Ask a more specific question please monty.

Another scumtell for me is that scum are passive, which monty is being right now. Town is active because they want to find scum, scum is passive because they dont want to get lynched. Monty is being way passive.

I was giving my opinion on town claims, should I not do that?

[Shawn]

Monty, maybe he'll be more willing to reply if you state an "Intent to Hammer"? You said the only reason you arent voting him is to avoid quickhammering him until you're more certain, is this a soft claim to intent to hammer?

Unvote me so that monty has to answer the accusations leveled at him Thanks
You can just revote later if need be.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't know i see Monty passively scumhunting, everyone has their playstyle, and PRs also want to stay under the radar of scum you know. I still think your opinion on Town claims is BS, but that's a different opinion than yours, for me people claiming town so often specially when under pressure seems at an attempt at lying to avoid getting lynch, and guess what did you not only aknowledge to do earlier, but was proved that even after acknowledging it you kept doing?

[Shawn]

I don't know i see Monty passively scumhunting, everyone has their playstyle, and PRs also want to stay under the radar of scum you know. I still think your opinion on Town claims is BS, but that's a different opinion than yours, for me people claiming town so often specially when under pressure seems at an attempt at lying to avoid getting lynch, and guess what did you not only aknowledge to do earlier, but was proved that even after acknowledging it you kept doing?

That I shouldnt town claim? Or are you talking about something else?

You need your eyes checked. Monty JUST SAID he doesnt feel like posting until he has 'something very specific' in his mind. Guess what the question he asked me when town sentiment was against me?

Just so we are clear, what are your feelings about people at this point in the game, and how have they changed as the game has progressed?

Extremely unspecific and general.
To me, thats the definition of passivity. And I think that scum play passively.
Monty goes far beyond staying off the radar, he goes off the map. He is not posting little because he is a PR. No way.

[Shawn]

Im gonna sleep now,
Anyone who hammers before I get back is scum.

[MontyWhittaker]

It was a generic question to match your generic gameplay. It's hard to ask you a specific question, at least at that point, because you had made accusations toward a majority of the players in the game! Your persistent and not very effective defense has now made me wish to level an intent to hammer. I want to know exactly where you stand right now about people in the game.

I am also trying to figure out why you didn't acknowledge the other question I gave you regarding Sakura's post. You're not doing yourself any favors by your brute resistance in some areas, and utter silence in others.

[Commandodude]

God, I take back my original post in which I said I would not read everything. I'm probably going to have to read the entire thread twice to figure anything out. Also, I don't know who Shawn is, but he might know who I am because I use the name Commandodude on pretty much every website I go to.

[Sakura Hana]

Not just mine, overall he likes avoiding questions, then pretends they never happened, just look at his ISO between him and Thor, then pushes a case against him.... which wasn't succesful, now that i pushed a case against him, will he retaliate with a case against me i wonder.

[Sakura Hana]

Off-Topic: Also would be nice if you 2 got an avatar :<

[Commandodude]

Off-Topic: Also would be nice if you 2 got an avatar :<

I can't find one that fits the theme of mafia.

[TheIrishPope]

Look at Sakura, it's an anime character
Well well well, if Shawn is claiming Vanilla Townie, and we gain a great deal of information out of his lynching, I say we policy lynch.

[Sakura Hana]

What is a policy lynch?