League of Legends (Old)

[TehBrawlGuy]

That's why every bruiser, even Mundo, has to build some damage. When you get torn to pieces by that triple multiplicative scaling and they lifesteal tons back, you've gotta deal damage reasonably fast to be relevant. You can entirely ignore full tank Mundo late and have half his E stop working. When you're forced to damage Mundo, which boosts his E, and he has Wit's, for example, he's doing 42-141 damage extra

per auto

. Add in that you're getting a lot more autos from the AS, and while he's obviously not the midgame Mundo he was, he's a legitimate threat again.

[mykonian]

The lategame problem of bruisers (as far as I can see) is that they are dead before they get to the adc. It really doesn't matter what you build if you get kited anyway.

but obviously, if you are looking for damage, any item with attackspeed is great for Mundo. Wits end is huge for him.

[Ankamius]

Fuck I don't play kog'maw enough

[mykonian]

nobody does.

[TehBrawlGuy]

The lategame problem of bruisers (as far as I can see) is that they are dead before they get to the adc. It really doesn't matter what you build if you get kited anyway.

but obviously, if you are looking for damage, any item with attackspeed is great for Mundo. Wits end is huge for him.

If the bruiser's getting kited so bad they can't get any damage in, they're either eating all the CC or getting outplayed. Even those without a dash have tools to keep them alive and able to get in range. (Q/W Garen, W/R Mundo, W/R Singed) Lategame sucks, but you should still be relevant.

Yeah, AS and especially Wit's are too good. There's even a normals cheese "ADC Mundo" build with SotD and E max for instant triple crit 900 damage burst, which I find hilarious.

[Kise]

yup, that's why bruisers are midgame champions, as when they get shot to pieces by full build adcs the game gets awkward for them. Goes for all of them. If you've been at lv18 for over 15 minutes, being a bruiser isn't much fun.

When the enemy ADC gets big, that's when I start selling an item or two in favor of damage late game. The things to keep in mind are how soon you can get to an ADC in the back and whether you or someone else on your team can sacrifice tankiness for damage in order to bypass the enemy frontline and get to the AD.

An infinity edge is much more effective than a BC. If the game goes long enough (and gold multiplies like crazy after a certain point), consider swapping an item or two to properly counter the enemy team's updated items/stats.

[Llamarble]

How is it so many of us end up in the same division?

[SensFan]

How is it so many of us end up in the same division?

By design. When you get promoted/assigned to a new division, it tries to place you in a division with as many Friends as possible.

[Ankamius]

Spoiler:

I can die happy now.

[PJ.]

So appaarently Hotshotgg is in the last episode of Psycho-Pass

[JDodge]

onm should be in a casted match tonight at 11 PM eastern

will give more details once everything is more confirmed

GET HYPE

[TehBrawlGuy]

I dunno where Hype is, man. Help me find him!

What division is ONM at? I'm interested in watching if you guys are highish.

[MrZepher]

apparently AD twisted fate is still a thing if you can get past the awful awful early game
obscenely high atk speed scaling, the ability to peel for himself and the ability to use himself as an ashe arrow. lol.

I wouldn't ever do it if I wanted to tryhard a win, but it's really really fun to play otherwise.

[mykonian]

apart from the ult thingy (which is less cool as an adc then apc, really), doesn't kennen do the same but better?

[PJ.]

I dunno where Hype is, man. Help me find him!

What division is ONM at? I'm interested in watching if you guys are highish.

Silver Vish, trust me, it's not worth the price of admission.

I can sum the game up now. PEG does super good, Zito supports him well. Scot and JD lose their lane while depnding on their new jungler guy to win their lanes for them, which even if he does get some success it won't be enough. Depending on how good the other guys are, PEG might carry anyway. Dude is a baller.

[Ankamius]

Actually, once I think about it, the addition of Thresh makes ADC TF kind of completely useless. ADC Thresh is a much more hilarious gimmick and brings a lot to a team that TF straight up doesn't (less consistent stun, but can use that stun to move around and set up The Box as well as having a knockback/shield/ability to bring literally anyone to him so whoever the designated person peeling for him is will pretty much never be off his nuts, not to forget that the passive on his Q is basically stacked deck for every attack).

[PJ.]

Actually, once I think about it, the addition of Thresh makes ADC TF kind of completely useless.

ADC Thresh is a much more hilarious gimmick

and brings a lot to a team that TF straight up doesn't (less consistent stun, but can use that stun to move around and set up The Box as well as having a knockback/shield/ability to bring literally anyone to him so whoever the designated person peeling for him is will pretty much never be off his nuts,

not to forget that the passive on his Q is basically stacked deck for every attack

).

Truth. Thresh too cool.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Actually, once I think about it, the addition of Thresh makes ADC TF kind of completely useless. ADC Thresh is a much more hilarious gimmick and brings a lot to a team that TF straight up doesn't (less consistent stun, but can use that stun to move around and set up The Box as well as having a knockback/shield/ability to bring literally anyone to him so whoever the designated person peeling for him is will pretty much never be off his nuts, not to forget that the passive on his Q is basically stacked deck for every attack).

And both are trumped by ADC Kennen, who has a much better steroid, a fairly reliable stun, higher base damages on his abilities, an escape that provides him free MR and Armor and a decent base health(about middle of the road. Trist MF and Graves have higher than him, as well as Thresh) and a 550 AA range which beats both TF (525) and Thresh (475).

[mykonian]

he has a much lower burst then tresh, though. Midgame tresh is hilarious (what do you mean, 200% of ad damage extra damage on the first hit). It's a gimmick, but it is such a fun one. My brother and I have played a couple of killlanes tresh/sion now, and pretty much everything dies midgame against that. I've seen my brother do it a couple of times now, when we are having some fun, and people keep being caught of guard by that first auto which now and then reaches 1000 damage. Squishies don't duel with that

[Bub Bidderskins]

Patch Notes

Best thing about them:

Limited to 1 Boots item at a time

No more accidentally buying two pairs of boots!

[Kise]

What about...ADC TF with support Thresh? =-o

I used to play AD TF pre-30...mallet and MBR were "core". I guess with Bork and TF he'd be okay.

[dramonic]

he has a much lower burst then tresh, though. Midgame tresh is hilarious (what do you mean, 200% of ad damage extra damage on the first hit). It's a gimmick, but it is such a fun one. My brother and I have played a couple of killlanes tresh/sion now, and pretty much everything dies midgame against that. I've seen my brother do it a couple of times now, when we are having some fun, and people keep being caught of guard by that first auto which now and then reaches 1000 damage. Squishies don't duel with that

Can the boosted hit crit?
Actually, does the boost apply the crit of the attack, or is it a flat 200% AD boost?

[mykonian]

he has a much lower burst then tresh, though. Midgame tresh is hilarious (what do you mean, 200% of ad damage extra damage on the first hit). It's a gimmick, but it is such a fun one. My brother and I have played a couple of killlanes tresh/sion now, and pretty much everything dies midgame against that. I've seen my brother do it a couple of times now, when we are having some fun, and people keep being caught of guard by that first auto which now and then reaches 1000 damage. Squishies don't duel with that

Can the boosted hit crit?
Actually, does the boost apply the crit of the attack, or is it a flat 200% AD boost?

It's the last. In magic damage. Only if it's loaded though, so only the first attack hits that hard.

[GreyICE]

The difference between a bruiser and an assassin isn't the AMOUNT of damage, it's the NATURE of the damage. Assassins do all their damage at once. It's the same with AP mages. Karthus does amazing damage, but he's not an assassin - he does amazing damage over a length of time, thanks to defile and skittles (plus obviously R). Veigar or LeBlanc are assassins because they can kill you in the blink of an eye if you're squishy. Irelia does sustained damage over a period of time. So does Jax. Jax will do a lot, lot, lot more damage than Zed over the course of 30 seconds... but Zed will do a lot more damage over the course of 3.

Great, so far so good. Bruisers do it over time, assassins don't. You got it right that far. That in turn means bruisers are going to get hit, while assassins pick their moment where they probably won't as much as they tend to outburst their opponents. Now for the difference between tanks and bruisers, it's not how much health they have. Full tank cho prioritizes his abilities and wants to use them to disrupt the enemy team. He is not looking to deal damage, just doesn't want to die and wants to bring the aoe cc to defend his squisies. CDR and tankyness are generally the stats tanks prioritize, to make the most of their CC abilities.

Bruisers want to hurt people. On the flipside of the coin, they have trouble staying alive because everything is going to hit them while they try to do that.

You seem to think that tank/bruiser depends on the items they build. Many champions are inherently bruisers, because the only thing they can do is run into the other team, looking to hurt them. Only some (and cho is an example) gets to choose their role. And yes, you don't build damage on mundo. Because he doesn't scale very well with any stat except for perhaps attackspeed. That doesn't mean he doesn't hurt. 100 extra ad is not something a lot of bruisers get to build up. 4 sec cd percentage health damage cleavers are quite a nice touch as well. The fact that his offensive base stats are so ridiculous that he doesn't have to build damage doesn't make him a tank.


So yes, if you have a Cho who builds to run into the other team, trying to get autoattacks of there and stick to squishies, you are looking at a bruiser.

Of course being a tank/bruiser depends heavily on what items you build. You know what you call a malphite with a chain vest and boots at the 20 minute mark? R and dead. Very few characters have so much innate power in their kit that they do things without having gold, and those that do rarely scale at all (they tend to be called "supports"). The line between tank and bruiser is already a fairly thin one in many cases. The question as to what role you want to fill comes down to itemization.

The question is what does their kit aim them towards being? In Mundo's case, as you noted, he doesn't scale well with any offensive stat except AS and arguably MPen. He scales amazingly well with health. Therefore you tend to want him on the front lines soaking up damage and keeping the squishies distracted. That's pretty much the definition of a tank. Sure, the in-game tag might not cover this, but the in-game tag has Teemo as a support character. I wouldn't put too much stock in it, its tank category includes only 12 champions, none of which is Blitzcrank, Cho, Nasus, or Jarvan.

[mykonian]

no greyice, the abilities make what kind of role a champion can fill, not the items. Tanks don't have the goal of hurting people, although they might. Bruisers do, they want to find something squishy and hit it.

Doesn't matter how many warmogs you stacked on mundo, he's still got 4 abilities that say: "I want to run at people and hurt them". It's not a thin line, that's plain bullshit. One role focusses CC, peels and initiates. The other runs at squisies. If a champion can run well and hurt well, you do the latter, if a champion has a bunch of CC, he'll be able to do the first. One's a tank, one's a bruiser. It's really not that hard, and it has nothing to do with the amount of warmogs one builds.