Micro 164: Epic Mafia (Game Over)

[fuzzybutternut]

My apologies, Richard G, and everyone else for that matter.

[Rob14]

bubba mayfair club is not a forum. that is 168.

HOWEVER

As I personally know how to edit photos, that could be 2 screenshots put together and it could be the list for mayfair club...

a screenshot is not proof. sorry.

p.edit i just went into like 5 games and myself, fuzzy, bubba, and rach all show up at the bottom of all of them. The reason that jake doesn't is likely that he is hidden.

Example of rmp defending bubba. Will find more later when I don't have to go to work in <10 minutes.

I've played 2 games with molla, IIRC, but I also read games I'm not in, and he's been in a few of those as well. I think I've seen 4ish games that he's been in. IIRC, I only thought he was town in one, and he turned out to be town in all of them.

[Rob14]

Derp, hit the post button before I meant to.

Not disclosing any of my reasons for my Pirate read.

My GIF read was early on. At the time, some of the posts I liked were #28, #63, #66, and #74. There's nothing really concrete I can point to in those posts as ObvTown, it's just the way he's carrying himself and the attitude that he's projecting. It feels like a town player to me. Also, he tried to build up pressure on someone in RVS, called out some bad logic, and directly interacted with several people early. Seemed like a genuine attempt to get the game started and develop reads, in my opinion.

Lately, I don't remember any of his posts at all. I didn't even really realize that until you brought him up. I hate it when someone doesn't leave any impression with me, so I'm going to have to re-read him a bit and see if he appears to be intentionally floating under the radar or if I'm just not reading closely enough. That's tonight or tomorrow's work, though - I have places to be.

[Jake from State Farm]

So you just confirmed that scum team is you and pirate.

GG everyone

vote: rob

[Jake from State Farm]

For those playing at home, both rob and pirate have called each other town, in a certainty that is impossible in this setup. If we had masons, I'd back off maybe but since we don't there is no reason rob won't share his reasons and there was no reason pirate spoke out saying rob was town. There's obvious connection and that means they are scum.

Lynch one or the other IMO.

[rmpeacoc]

bubba mayfair club is not a forum. that is 168.

HOWEVER

As I personally know how to edit photos, that could be 2 screenshots put together and it could be the list for mayfair club...

a screenshot is not proof. sorry.

p.edit i just went into like 5 games and myself, fuzzy, bubba, and rach all show up at the bottom of all of them. The reason that jake doesn't is likely that he is hidden.

Example of rmp defending bubba. Will find more later when I don't have to go to work in <10 minutes.

I've played 2 games with molla, IIRC, but I also read games I'm not in, and he's been in a few of those as well. I think I've seen 4ish games that he's been in. IIRC, I only thought he was town in one, and he turned out to be town in all of them.

That is not me defending bubba... that is me trying to get all of the facts and make sure the situation is completely understood. Why? Because it is all truth and I'm not going to let someone go down for something that they didn't do or at least can't be proven. I want to get the actual scum, not believe some stupid argument about Meta.

Honestly I'm going to have to be in agreement with Jake here... Rob you are too confident in your reads and your scum tells at this point are based off of things that could be just townies seeming a little bit scummy here. You have nothing concrete.

VOTE: Rob13

[Rob14]

I am confident in my Pirate town read. Ask yourself what any possible scum motivation could exist for me to strong town read my scum partner while giving no reasons while I have suspicion on me. There isn't one. I would be looking to distance, if anything, from my partner in this position if I were scum.

Of course none of my reads are rock solid. It's day one. But I'm confident in my Pirate read as well as my reads on Bubba, Jake, and Dav/Fuzzy. The rest of the reads are not so strong. Rmp has shifted back in the town direction for me a while back, for one, and the other people I don't have very solid anything on.

If you don't think that claiming that Dav's screenshot could be editted and therefore cannot be used against Bubba is not defending Bubba, rmp, then you and I have different definitions of defending. I'm not entirely sure anymore whether it makes you scummy, though. I definitely have more of Bubba defending rmp than rmp defending bubba. Could just be one-sided buddying from the scum, trying to bring his friend onto his side.

The reason why I won't reveal my reason for the read on Pirate is because it would be harmful to the town for me to do that. Needless to say, I think I saw a specific tell a while back near the beginning of the game that convinces me Pirate isn't scum. Run me up to L-1 or lynch me if you want - that reason isn't getting revealed.

[Piratecat]

VOTE: jake

[Jake from State Farm]

Lol, look at lurker pirate showing up only to vote. Didn't even bother to answer the questions I asked earlier.

[BBmolla]

Prefer Pirate over Rob

[rmpeacoc]

Rob, I'll say it again, I'm trying to get all of the information out for everyone to see. I'll even edit some screen shots for you outside of the game AFTER the game is done to prove it can be done. I did however say that before I realize the list of users browsing the forum lists everyone who is in any mayfair club game.

Anyway I just want to point this out. I stumbled upon it on the wiki today:

Chainsaw Defense (Tarhalindur Version)

The general form of this tell is "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum".

The key to identifying this tell is intent - it is possible to confuse Chainsaw Defense with a player who simply finds the attacker scummy and has no intent of defense. In general, you can be reasonably sure that this tell is involved if a) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense has not previously been especially critical of the player he is now attacking, and b) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense seems to find the player he is supposedly defending at least reasonably pro-town.

The extreme form of this tell is Mutual Chainsaw Defense, where two players defend each other by attacking each others' attackers. This is a major scumtell, and Tarhalindur would be willing to lynch/vig both players with only this tell as justification.

The Chainsaw Defense is named after the mental image of a player ripping apart another player with a chainsaw for daring to attack his ally. It should not be confused with the Cochrane Defense, which can also be referred to as the Chainsaw Defense (the Wiki refers to the Cochrane Defense this way), which is a gambit made by players investigated as scum. The Chainsaw Defense can also be referred to as the Bodyguard Defense in order to prevent confusion.

UPDATE: After further analysis, Tarhalindur has determined that the Chainsaw Defense is only trustworthy once the player defended has been revealed to be group scum (once the player defended is proved to be Mafia, any player that used Chainsaw Defense on the dead scum should be scrutinized). Otherwise, it is a null tell. Mutual Chainsaw Defense may, however, still be an outright scumtell; more research is required here.

^^ I could see you arguing that Bubba is using a chanisaw defense with me, but not me with him, as I was never attacking anyone for bubba, only trying to out the facts for understanding.

[Jake from State Farm]

Rob flip gives us more info

[Piratecat]

Thought I did answer it Jake.

Rob is displaying similarities here as he did in the micro game.

Also my biggest pet peeve is being called a lurker. The Mala side of the hydra has been taking extra shifts and working on a huge paper. Then there's the fact you are going after lurkers is another huge pet peeve of mine because they are easy targets and perfect targets for scum to go after.

Also I don't like how you are saying Rob would give us more information. Chances are rob is town and I know you think he's scummy, but in reality he's not so much.

[Jake from State Farm]

No you haven't answered my questions.
Rob's probably not town, I'm unsure about you though. Neither head is playing like I remember so I'm still suspicious.

[Rob14]

Jake - still voting me on gut? I love how you've made no arguments against me so that I have nothing to respond to in order to defend myself in any way. A+++ on the scum-hunting.

But.....still town. Why are you voting Jake exactly Pirate?

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm not voting you for gut anymore. Your refusal to explain your super strong town read is why I'm voting you. You are scum, either her buddy or you are buddying her. Not really sure yet.

Your flip will help me figure it out though

[Rob14]

How would a flip help you figure that out? That doesn't really make any sense. Please elaborate.

And that's fine, but if you can't think of any reasons why town may not want to share reasons behind a read, then that's rather surprising. Especially when you consider that you did the same thing earlier in the game several times when asked about reads, what you were doing to scum-hunt, and other things. You've generally been an enigma the entire game and refused to elaborate on your reasons for anything until very recently.

Also, I know I've said this before, but I'd recommend looking into my meta. I don't believe I've ever refused to give reasons for a read as scum, and I hardly ever (if ever? I don't recall doing it) use gut as a reason for a read as scum. I can remember at least one instance as town where I did refuse to give a read, though, and for good reason. I can pull that game if you want me to, but I'm not going to that effort if no one will read it at all, so let me know if anyone wants to check it out. My point is that this is not a scum-tell, at least not for me. It's null at best.

[Piratecat]

I would have to poke Mollie on the vote as that was all her. I know she mentioned something about Jake.

Jake - you have never actually played with me so not sure how you are saying I'm not playing how I am in the ongoing. First you don't know how'd I play scum or town. Reading meta is one thing, but experiencing it is a whole another level.

[Jake from State Farm]

Hmm I guess you are right, I thought we had a completed game together.

[Piratecat]

Nope.

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok my bad. I guess I don't know your play. But the lurking is still suspect. Never an excuse to lurk.

[Piratecat]

You say we are lurking, but we aren't. I'm incredibly busy and Mollie is too.

[Jake from State Farm]

Replace out

[Piratecat]

Piss off is my comment to you.

We are playing and we are scum hunting. You didn't do that earlier this game until you were called out for it. Now you are trying to look like you are hunting by going after a lurker who isn't a lurker.

[RichardGHP]

Vote Count 1.13

• bubbajack8 (2)
  : Rob13 fuzzybutternut
  
• fuzzybutternut (2)
  : catboi bubbajack8
  
• Rob13 (2)
  : Jake from State Farm rmpeacoc
  
• Jake from State Farm (1)
  : Piratecat
  
• catboi (1)
  : GuyInFreezer
  
• Piratecat (1)
  : BBmolla
  
• Not voting:
  (
  nobody
  )

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2013-05-03 17:57:30).

catboi has turned into a vegetable!