Open 493 - Jungle Republic. (Game Over - Werewolf Victory)

[Icebox]

Because Werewolves don't need to hunt as much. They have more options available to them to deal with problems. Mafia need to create convincing cases to mislynch town or lynch werewolves.

-Rem

[Syryana]

I reread Autti, Bo. I did see what you mean about him fencesitting a lot. Also very odd that he's suspicious of zach and fuzzy but doesn't mention them in his #355. Definitely puts him in the suspicious pile.

However, I'm more interested in Icebox's recent posts.

Reads:

Town:
Klick
DBK (Consistency in strategy, active poster, catching the same things I am and posting them faster than I can)
TNE From GIF. I have serious difficulty reading him.

Lean town:
Zach: For post, full of paranoia. Scum know things, town don't! That's why they're always, always paranoid.
Syrana: Whilst hard working, there are two factions in this game that have an especially great need to hunt, Mafia and Town. His cases are convincing enough that I don't really feel he has the right motivation to be a werewolf. But this doesn't exclude maf.

Why is Klick town? Why is zach's paranoia indicative of townieness? If my scumhunting makes you think it's possible I might be mafia, why doesn't that apply to the scumhunting your main townreads have done?

[Icebox]

1. I already argued for why Klick is town in post 301. That's why it is bare. It doesn't apply to Klick because he's not hunting vigorously.
2. DBK, Originally because his meta did not jive at all with his scum game, in which there was much lurking. I just found out from http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26710 that he has just changed his style. So, I need to reassess this read. The read had a lot to do with how it didn't jive with his scum meta. So it in fact, no longer applies to DBK. Although he has not made any cases case, but he has done something that I find closely equivalent.
3. For the Zach read: Town have more to be paranoid about than either the mafia team (As they are in a team of 3 and know who their partners are) or the Werewolves (who have the greatest amount of control). Basically, they know more, so, they have less to be paranoid about.That said Zach had his Wagon derailed really quickly and people started to jump on those who voted him right away. It's something to think about later. Further he has not made a serious case for anyone other than TNE (and even that is somewhat bare) and it was a case as to why he was town, not to why he was scum.

-Rem

[Icebox]

* So, Zach and Klick stay. For the reasons given.

Rethinking DBK and how to approach his play.

-Rem

[Does Bo Know]

Awwww you've been following 1353? How sweet. <3

[Autti]

[quote="In post 367

Lean scum: Autti A thing that pinged the read, was that he avoided my question when I asked if he had experience in mafia, he said "On this site" which means he has experience elsewhere, but doesn't want to talk about it. There's not really a reason for this avoidance if he's town, it shows a caution that is entirely unnecessary for a town mindset. Further, he should know that some players town hunt rather than scum hunt and make cases for why players are town. But yet, he was confused as to why I would make a case for why a player was [/quote]
Oh look an OMGUS appears.

Also I didn't avoid your question. I just didn't give you the answer you wanted. This is my 2nd game on this site and my 10th game overall I think. But you could tell I was new anyway when I questioned you posting a klick town read. Then proceed to say I'm sorry if this affects your play. Kind of sounds like your trying to get a comf townie killed to me.

Anyway, thanks for cementing my case against you. I'd vote you again if I could.

I'm suspicious of Fuzzy but don't have a read on him. Where was I suspicious of Zach? Thenewearth was my other main scum read who I voted against before Icebox.

[Autti]

Balls. Deleted to much on my stupid phone. That is meant to be a quote of Icebox from #367. You can figure it out

[Icebox]

Actually, I can't.

-Rem

[Icebox]

"OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that

you are voting for someone primarily

because they voted for you."

-Rem

[Does Bo Know]

Autti's reaction was awful.

I see Autti as scum if Icebox flipped town

[Icebox]

hey guys I'm back.
catching up.

-G

[Icebox]

You, however, didn't, and only commented on my calling you scum. It was a knee-jerk reaction. You essentially said, "I'm not scum! You're scum!", which of course sets off my scumdar immediately.

If you're talking about #198, I was sarcastically calling your associative logic there shit.

-G

[Autti]

Autti's reaction was awful.

How so?

[Does Bo Know]

I had changed my mind about Icebox's reason for Autti-scum. He did say it was a lean, and there were a few reasons that made a little bit of sense. so I'm okay with it.

So anyway, in the case Icebox has against you, you actually ignore the second part of his case, call the first part OMGUS (which it wasn't), and cement your scum read on him for it.

I'm the type that defends players for crappy cases on each other, but no, I don't see why you think that warrants cementing your scum read. Not at all.

Also, why did you ignore Icebox's 382 or 383 (from which are actually logical points that you should either acknowledge or argue against), and instead ask why I though your reaction was awful (possible self-defense)?

[Autti]

OMGUS isn't specific to votes. He spun a weak case against me because i rose my case against him first.

Is it really that hard to figure out what i was quoting? It has a

at the top and

at the bottom, the rest just didn't work out haha.

What was the second part of his case? That i was suspicious of him town hunting? I am suspicious of it. Particularly the "i hope this doesn't affect your gameplay" line. Not to mention the second part is answered by my answer to the first part. This is my 2nd game on the site, how should i know that players town hunt here.

The site where i have played the majority of games nobody town hunts. It's scummy, as scum can obviously hunt town far easier than pretend to hunt scum.

[Autti]

lol... i wanted say it had a quote sign at the top and quote sign at the end of the paragraph. So it really wasn't that hard to figure out.

But just then i used the actual quote signs, hence making a quote. My bad

[Does Bo Know]

A lot of people here have cases against Icebox, but you don't see Icebox telling everyone else that their cases are shit and calling them scum for it.

[Autti]

Thats icebox's choice. I obviously chose differently

[Klick]

Doing this now. I've had a really big day, so don't expect this to be much.

---

Reviewing my RQS, I want to say that anyone who gave one person to Question 2 is likely a wolf, but I also want to say that anyone who answered two people in a way that made it seem like they consciously knew there were three mafia has a bigger chance of being mafia.

2. Fuzzy because he's always obvtown. And zach.

Slight mafia lean from this answer.

2. Bulbazak and Klick. I've played with both and they're interesting to play with.

Slight mafia lean from this answer, weakened by the fact that he showed knowledge of the setup in his first answer.

2.) I'd like to see Egg be mafia. I've never played with him, but he knows me. O.O

Wolf lean from this answer.

2) klick!

Wolf lean from this answer. Stronger due to showing setup knowledge in the first question, as he still slipped up the amount of mafia players.

2. I'd have liked to be mafia with Mac But wishes are for fishes.

Stronger wolf lean due to both of them doing it.

2. Maestro and Eddie Fenix

Mafia lean. Even though they aren't actual players here, he consciously knew the amount of partners.

2. Anyone but Fuzzy. HE JUST LOST US 1337 AND HE WASN'T EVEN ALIVE! Now

that's

talent.

Completely null answer.

---

I was gonna go through everyone's posts, but I'm tired, so I think I'm gonna cut to the point and go through why fuzzy is scum.

oh hey, this is a thing now.

VOTE: Klick

eh, why not?

This just feels wrong. The "eh" seems to only be added for show.

Tell me what Klick has done to

not

be scummy.

Since when can scum not promise things?

Since when does my play

not

make your gut feel bad?

Umm...

And then, the already-mentioned opportunistic vote:

He also had scum and town reads before a flip in that game.
VOTE: zachattack

...along with his RQS answer, I think I'm still right in my vote.

---

To shorten other thoughts, I'm gonna keep an eye on Bulb and Icebox due to RQS stuff, but other than that, I'm too tired to do much else. But I do remember that while skimming, something caught my attention in a post by zach, and it gave me a slight scum lean.

Reads list:

TOWN
Me
Syryana
Egg
Mac?
DBK?

SOME TYPE OF SCUM
zach
TNE?

MAFIA
Bulb?

WOLF
fuzzy
Icebox?

NULL
Mac
Autti
BEF

So, maybe Bulb/zach/TNE as Mafia and fuzzy/Icebox as Wolves? But I remember some combination of TNE/zach/fuzzy felt weird being on the same team for some reason. (Gonna start taking notes separately as I'm skimming instead of just putting small comments in posts, it'll help me not forget stuff)

[Icebox]

I'm completely lost.

1. You think my playstyle is scummy? I can't do anything about that. Some of the best players on this site (such as Nachomamma) town hunt.
2. You think that it's suspicious that I asked someone not to be effected by their lack of general suspicion? That is, a lot of players read Klick as town. This can affect them and their decisions negatively. Because those who interact with them generally see them as town, they treat the player differently and it gets in the way of their ability to scum hunt (sometimes). I am stating that I hope that doesn't happen. Because I created another argument for why he was town and presumably, if anyone finds it convincing, will have a more favorable read on that player. Which will influence these interactions.
3. Your definition is secondary to the wiki definition upon which vocabulary is largely learned by the player base. You can say that isn't this isn't the intended meaning, but given that OMGUS originated from a player voting someone else on this site, I'm pretty sure it is. So it's not OMGUS. Call it something else.

Pedit: That's somewhat ironic. I'm town this game. Interesting RQS now that I see what it meant though. I might steal it if you don't mind.

-Rem

[Klick]

It really only works in this setup (or in some other open multiball with uneven teams...)

[thenewearth]

Wait... What makes me "some type of scum" again? I don't even see your answer to my answer

[Egg]

Zach, I want to make sure I fully understand post 327. Are you effectively admitting that after being prodded for activity, you made a "will post later" type post only to come back and post complete noise in post 325? Are you posting for the sake of posting? Can we expect some kind of contribution soon?

Fuzzy's zach vote is horrible. Townfuzzy makes bad votes for bad reasons that you can tell he believes. He seems too fake in his votes here. More than willing to lynch him at this point.

Bulb, fair. I understand your line of thinking on the "WIFOM" in icebox's post. I still disagree but at least I see where you are coming from and I'm not going to go out of my way to defend someone I think is scum anyway.

I still have some reading to do but figured i'd get some out of the way. Sorry I fell behind. I was doing so well before this lol

[fuzzybutternut]

Hmm. Klick is town.

Egg, if I was unsure about my vote, I would unvote. If it was a contrived vote, there would be no doubt in your mind that it was contrived.

[Does Bo Know]

Yeah, Fuzzy's probably town everyone. Sorry to burst your bubbles.

Fuzzy's an idiot. But he's still voting Zach for reasons he's stated. Scum-fuzzy may try something like a vote on Icebox.

More Icebox/Autti votes.