Micro 162 - Poetic Justice Mafia (Justice is buldermar!)

[pirate mollie]

mollie, the one thing I'm mostly wondering about is why ff wouldn't trust my read on Majiffy. I also think it should be evident by now to her why I think Majiffy is scum, and yet she hasn't really pointed out mistakes in my reasoning. I keep on telling myself that this is just something I'm imagining and that she's exactly what she claims to be, though.

What is her read on Majiffy? I kept asking her until I finally gave up getting anything useful from her reads.

I posted a mini-case on him yesterday. I'll check to see if you responded to it.

My town reads have gone in two totally different directions in this game, and that has pretty much torched any chance at working through to a consensus with you atm.

I said I was unsure on majiffy I think I have said this a couple of times but nice try though

DCLXVI [2/5] - Human Destroyer, buldermar
Mac [2/5] - Minimal, orcinus_theoriginal
buldermar [2/5] - DCLXVI, Majiffy

Abstained (Not Voting): pirate mollie, Mac, fferyllt

[fferyllt]

Jesus.

I want to figure out who to lynch. And I wish orcinus and buldermar were on the same page about this.

If I'm not mistaking, we both think that DCL and Majiffy are good lynches. We disagree on whether I'm a good lynch as well, though.

His vote is on Mac. And he thinks DCL's fit-pitching over the thread size could be coming from a town PoV.

I am leaning DCL, but majiffy worries me.

Well... I'm not as certain as I was in that game on TR where I got him lynched on day 1, but I'm still quite certain that he's scum this game, and I've played a decent amount of games with him and generally feel like I'm reading him well. Not sure if it matters to you, just throwing it out there.

buldermar, my mini-case was post 1105.

[buldermar]

I think Buldermar is a giant piece of scum and I hate his reaction to basically everything. He refuses to refute my points concerning him and is somehow fucking townread for that? No sense at all.

Make one list of your points with no ad hominem bullshit and no straw men, and I'll refute every single one of them.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Okay, lets go back to ignoring each other.

[buldermar]

Dodgelist:
345
339
328
321

I'll make sure to respond to these either later today or tomorrow.

[buldermar]

mollie, the one thing I'm mostly wondering about is why ff wouldn't trust my read on Majiffy. I also think it should be evident by now to her why I think Majiffy is scum, and yet she hasn't really pointed out mistakes in my reasoning. I keep on telling myself that this is just something I'm imagining and that she's exactly what she claims to be, though.

What is her read on Majiffy? I kept asking her until I finally gave up getting anything useful from her reads.

I posted a mini-case on him yesterday. I'll check to see if you responded to it.

My town reads have gone in two totally different directions in this game, and that has pretty much torched any chance at working through to a consensus with you atm.

I don't really get why you'd claim that it's not possible to reach a consensus with me - at least not regarding a lynch. For instance, I've refrained from pushing orc mostly because of your town read on him, if not only because of that.

[Majiffy]

It's an equilibrium in every case where the person isn't confirmed town or scum already, which is the case we're dealing with here. In other words, the exact odds of the person being town or scum prior to applying the plan does not affect the utility of the plan.

The fuck is this and how does it have any merit in the argument whatsoever.

It's a pretty simple concept, buldermar. Cleared townies are good. Dead scum are good. The plan has a high percentage of getting us one of those two options.

You're not reading at all. I refuse to believe you actually think I'm this dense, but whatever.

Excellent non-response!

[fferyllt]

mollie, the one thing I'm mostly wondering about is why ff wouldn't trust my read on Majiffy. I also think it should be evident by now to her why I think Majiffy is scum, and yet she hasn't really pointed out mistakes in my reasoning. I keep on telling myself that this is just something I'm imagining and that she's exactly what she claims to be, though.

What is her read on Majiffy? I kept asking her until I finally gave up getting anything useful from her reads.

I posted a mini-case on him yesterday. I'll check to see if you responded to it.

My town reads have gone in two totally different directions in this game, and that has pretty much torched any chance at working through to a consensus with you atm.

I don't really get why you'd claim that it's not possible to reach a consensus with me - at least not regarding a lynch. For instance, I've refrained from pushing orc mostly because of your town read on him, if not only because of that.

orcinus is on a player I don't think I can see my way to voting today, and he has a town read on DCL.

You would vote DCL...and majiffy...who is also voting DCL.

I could vote with you. I can't vote with what I consider to be a nascent town bloc. And in all likelihood it would fall apart tomorrow anyway.

[buldermar]

Jesus.

I want to figure out who to lynch. And I wish orcinus and buldermar were on the same page about this.

If I'm not mistaking, we both think that DCL and Majiffy are good lynches. We disagree on whether I'm a good lynch as well, though.

His vote is on Mac. And he thinks DCL's fit-pitching over the thread size could be coming from a town PoV.

I am leaning DCL, but majiffy worries me.

Well... I'm not as certain as I was in that game on TR where I got him lynched on day 1, but I'm still quite certain that he's scum this game, and I've played a decent amount of games with him and generally feel like I'm reading him well. Not sure if it matters to you, just throwing it out there.

buldermar, my mini-case was post 1105.

I'll have a look.

[buldermar]

mini-case on Majiffy.

- tried to steer my track/watch onto a player that scum would be able to predict
- going after one of my town reads (where have I seen this before?)
- Mollie has replied to gazillions of my posts but didn't answer what her read on majiffy currently is - I think she believes Majiffy is scum and is not going after him in much the way she wouldn't go after me when she thought I was scum.

The energy level is really different from what I've seen in other games. That is what has kept me uncertain.

So are you for or against lynching him today?

[buldermar]

It's an equilibrium in every case where the person isn't confirmed town or scum already, which is the case we're dealing with here. In other words, the exact odds of the person being town or scum prior to applying the plan does not affect the utility of the plan.

The fuck is this and how does it have any merit in the argument whatsoever.

It's a pretty simple concept, buldermar. Cleared townies are good. Dead scum are good. The plan has a high percentage of getting us one of those two options.

You're not reading at all. I refuse to believe you actually think I'm this dense, but whatever.

Excellent non-response!

You're insulting me by continuing to assert that it's a pretty simple concept and that I do not grasp it when, in fact, you're currently the one not grasping things. For instance, why do you say "cleared townies are good. Dead scum are good." as if what I've said somehow contradicts this? If you want me to explain things, let me know. Otherwise, please just stfu and stop acting like I don't comprehend what you write.

[buldermar]

mollie, the one thing I'm mostly wondering about is why ff wouldn't trust my read on Majiffy. I also think it should be evident by now to her why I think Majiffy is scum, and yet she hasn't really pointed out mistakes in my reasoning. I keep on telling myself that this is just something I'm imagining and that she's exactly what she claims to be, though.

What is her read on Majiffy? I kept asking her until I finally gave up getting anything useful from her reads.

I posted a mini-case on him yesterday. I'll check to see if you responded to it.

My town reads have gone in two totally different directions in this game, and that has pretty much torched any chance at working through to a consensus with you atm.

I don't really get why you'd claim that it's not possible to reach a consensus with me - at least not regarding a lynch. For instance, I've refrained from pushing orc mostly because of your town read on him, if not only because of that.

orcinus is on a player I don't think I can see my way to voting today, and he has a town read on DCL.

You would vote DCL...and majiffy...who is also voting DCL.

I could vote with you. I can't vote with what I consider to be a nascent town bloc. And in all likelihood it would fall apart tomorrow anyway.

I'm willing to lynch either of DCL and Majiffy (and if you absolutely oppose these lynches, I'd be willing to go for mac, but that's only because you read him as scum).

[Majiffy]

You would vote DCL...and majiffy...who is also voting DCL.

Was. I'm voting Buldermar now.

[fferyllt]

mini-case on Majiffy.

- tried to steer my track/watch onto a player that scum would be able to predict
- going after one of my town reads (where have I seen this before?)
- Mollie has replied to gazillions of my posts but didn't answer what her read on majiffy currently is - I think she believes Majiffy is scum and is not going after him in much the way she wouldn't go after me when she thought I was scum.

The energy level is really different from what I've seen in other games. That is what has kept me uncertain.

So are you for or against lynching him today?

unsure right now. his play here is nothing like the game where you got him lynched day 1 offsite so your certainty doesn't map for me. His play isn't really like the borkgame, either. There must be lots of games you two have played together that I did not play or watch. That is where your certainty comes from?

[buldermar]

You would vote DCL...and majiffy...who is also voting DCL.

Was. I'm voting Buldermar now.

You've effectively made yourself useless as I'm not getting lynched today, and I'm inclined to think it's completely deliberate.

[buldermar]

I can actually see Majiffy and DCL as partners, I think. Will have to go back and read, though.

[pirate mollie]

mollie, the one thing I'm mostly wondering about is why ff wouldn't trust my read on Majiffy. I also think it should be evident by now to her why I think Majiffy is scum, and yet she hasn't really pointed out mistakes in my reasoning. I keep on telling myself that this is just something I'm imagining and that she's exactly what she claims to be, though.

What is her read on Majiffy? I kept asking her until I finally gave up getting anything useful from her reads.

I posted a mini-case on him yesterday. I'll check to see if you responded to it.

My town reads have gone in two totally different directions in this game, and that has pretty much torched any chance at working through to a consensus with you atm.

I don't really get why you'd claim that it's not possible to reach a consensus with me - at least not regarding a lynch. For instance, I've refrained from pushing orc mostly because of your town read on him, if not only because of that.

orcinus is on a player I don't think I can see my way to voting today, and he has a town read on DCL.

You would vote DCL...and majiffy...who is also voting DCL.

I could vote with you.

I can't vote with what I consider to be a nascent town bloc. And in all likelihood it would fall apart tomorrow anyway

.

can someone plz ask fery as to she won't vote with a fledgling town bloc and as to why it would fall apart by tomorrow?

I hate to resort to this childishness but she kind of leaves me no choice when she is ignoring my posts.

[Majiffy]

You would vote DCL...and majiffy...who is also voting DCL.

Was. I'm voting Buldermar now.

You've effectively made yourself useless as I'm not getting lynched today, and I'm inclined to think it's completely deliberate.

Cool story.

[buldermar]

mini-case on Majiffy.

- tried to steer my track/watch onto a player that scum would be able to predict
- going after one of my town reads (where have I seen this before?)
- Mollie has replied to gazillions of my posts but didn't answer what her read on majiffy currently is - I think she believes Majiffy is scum and is not going after him in much the way she wouldn't go after me when she thought I was scum.

The energy level is really different from what I've seen in other games. That is what has kept me uncertain.

So are you for or against lynching him today?

unsure right now. his play here is nothing like the game where you got him lynched day 1 offsite so your certainty doesn't map for me. His play isn't really like the borkgame, either. There must be lots of games you two have played together that I did not play or watch. That is where your certainty comes from?

I recall one game in which I was not convinced that a read he had on a person was legit, and therefore didn't want to vote that person with him. He insisted that the person was scum. We argued a bunch. It ended up with me telling him that if he'd make a post in which he made it clear why that person must be scum, I'd read it carefully. I read it, and it did indeed point out a scumslip, so I voted that person with him. That person turned out to be scum.

In this game, he doesn't read things carefully, he just goes along, tunnels on me and suggests stupid anti-town things like simultanously watching and tracking your biggest town tell. He's being lazy in the sense that he just waits for me to talk so that he can call whatever I say scummy for no good reason. This I think is typical for scum-him.

[buldermar]

mollie, the one thing I'm mostly wondering about is why ff wouldn't trust my read on Majiffy. I also think it should be evident by now to her why I think Majiffy is scum, and yet she hasn't really pointed out mistakes in my reasoning. I keep on telling myself that this is just something I'm imagining and that she's exactly what she claims to be, though.

What is her read on Majiffy? I kept asking her until I finally gave up getting anything useful from her reads.

I posted a mini-case on him yesterday. I'll check to see if you responded to it.

My town reads have gone in two totally different directions in this game, and that has pretty much torched any chance at working through to a consensus with you atm.

I don't really get why you'd claim that it's not possible to reach a consensus with me - at least not regarding a lynch. For instance, I've refrained from pushing orc mostly because of your town read on him, if not only because of that.

orcinus is on a player I don't think I can see my way to voting today, and he has a town read on DCL.

You would vote DCL...and majiffy...who is also voting DCL.

I could vote with you.

I can't vote with what I consider to be a nascent town bloc. And in all likelihood it would fall apart tomorrow anyway

.

can someone plz ask fery as to she won't vote with a fledgling town bloc and as to why it would fall apart by tomorrow?

I hate to resort to this childishness but she kind of leaves me no choice when she is ignoring my posts.

[fferyllt]

sigh.

nascent because my thinking you are both town isn't enough to make you a bloc. IF we can get on the same page today I think it will end quickly. My flip isn't going to lend any cred to my town reads, even to each other.

[Majiffy]

In this game,

he doesn't read things carefull

y, he just goes along, tunnels on me

and suggests stupid anti-town things like simultanously watching and tracking your biggest town tell.

He's being lazy in the sense that he just waits for me to talk

so that he can call whatever I say scummy for no good reason

. This I think is typical for scum-him.

Bolded: Saying it over and over doesn't make it so.
Italicized: You haven't provided a legitimate argument for why it's a "stupid anti-town" suggestion.
Underlined: Posturing.

[fferyllt]

where have I seen bold-italics-underlined before...

[buldermar]

In this game,

he doesn't read things carefull

y, he just goes along, tunnels on me

and suggests stupid anti-town things like simultanously watching and tracking your biggest town tell.

He's being lazy in the sense that he just waits for me to talk

so that he can call whatever I say scummy for no good reason

. This I think is typical for scum-him.

Bolded: Saying it over and over doesn't make it so.
Italicized: You haven't provided a legitimate argument for why it's a "stupid anti-town" suggestion.
Underlined: Posturing.

Firstly, it has little potential of finding scum. Secondly, relative to picking a person at random and doing the exact same thing, it's not superior in a single aspect and inferior in more than one aspect. I'll go as far as to say that your plan is possibly one of the worst things she could do with her abilities. I'd be extremely surprised if she disagrees with it being a terrible plan.

[fferyllt]

In this game,

he doesn't read things carefull

y, he just goes along, tunnels on me

and suggests stupid anti-town things like simultanously watching and tracking your biggest town tell.

He's being lazy in the sense that he just waits for me to talk

so that he can call whatever I say scummy for no good reason

. This I think is typical for scum-him.

Bolded: Saying it over and over doesn't make it so.
Italicized: You haven't provided a legitimate argument for why it's a "stupid anti-town" suggestion.
Underlined: Posturing.

Firstly, it has little potential of finding scum. Secondly, relative to picking a person at random and doing the exact same thing, it's not superior in a single aspect and inferior in more than one aspect. I'll go as far as to say that your plan is possibly one of the worst things she could do with her abilities. I'd be extremely surprised if she disagrees with it being a terrible plan.

the suggestion was part of my mini-case.

[buldermar]

In this game,

he doesn't read things carefull

y, he just goes along, tunnels on me

and suggests stupid anti-town things like simultanously watching and tracking your biggest town tell.

He's being lazy in the sense that he just waits for me to talk

so that he can call whatever I say scummy for no good reason

. This I think is typical for scum-him.

Bolded: Saying it over and over doesn't make it so.
Italicized: You haven't provided a legitimate argument for why it's a "stupid anti-town" suggestion.
Underlined: Posturing.

Firstly, it has little potential of finding scum. Secondly, relative to picking a person at random and doing the exact same thing, it's not superior in a single aspect and inferior in more than one aspect. I'll go as far as to say that your plan is possibly one of the worst things she could do with her abilities. I'd be extremely surprised if she disagrees with it being a terrible plan.

the suggestion was part of my mini-case.

Well thanks a lot for spoiling that test.