WWE Believe in the Shield

[Svenskt Stål]

Allright. Why is (whom ever you´re voting) a better vote than esquire?

As I said Esquire is null for me, there's other people giving off more scummier vibes. Top one presently is Nero.
My vote on Nero is because of this:
His vote on Skull without any reason given was what really gave me my first scum vibe on him. And his eventual reason for this would be that he was "f***ing around". Which doesn't feel right. Nero would then show concern at putting me at L-5, yet he didn't bat an eyelid at putting Skull at L-3.
His peculiar knowledge of Zachattack when they've never played together before was also worrying, as well as his remark when questioned on his first post that it was "all a joke", yet he would provide reasons about his Zach stance. Why do this when it was all apparently a joke anyway?
He also doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the thread.

Okay. I dont have a good enough feel to objectively asses your case and I am to lazy to read up. I just wanted you to reason your case.

Hmm... got any townies? I only got one.

[TheEsquire]

Sure thing. I apologize. It's been a few years since I've played a game of mafia, and my ettiquette/recollection of what is or isn't helpful is still coming back to me. Who (other than me, because I'm not about to vote myself) do you think is a better vote than Monkey? Nero and RATEDR are my other current scum candidates, if you want a concise version of my posts.

I was on nero before I switched to you so I can see that.

So this is your first game back from a longer break?

I played 3 or 4 games of Mafia in the past, but not on Mafiascum and they were a few years ago (2010?). I stopped posting on any forums at all for a few years. Missed playing Mafia the most so when I found out about here I was eager to start again.

Back on topic: I'd be willing to throw down a vote on either of those three candidates. Really, as long as it's someone I feel is vaguely scummy I'm comfortable lynching them day 1. It's really hard to do much else day 1 without the information from a flip.

You seem very easy to work with. How should I approach the mission of deducing your role, what do you objectively think seperates your scum and town game? And what are the main goals you have as a towny if any?

I'm friendly. It's just how I am. You have questions, I answer them. I ask questions, and I hope they get answered. I'm not going to deny any possibilities, even if they're currently detrimental to my life expectancy. Just don't always expect me to be the one to point out the points that may get me killed myself

Otherwise, I'm certainly not going to ever claim my flavour role or if I have a power role or not unless I feel it's time. That always seems to be detrimental to town unless you've figured out someone who is scum, especially early game. How to spot my roles is a question I can't answer because I don't even know myself. I've actually only ever been a townie in my games. I'm looking forward to a game where I get to let my evil side out someday, but this game is not that game

Also, goal: I want to lynch scum and watch them sway in the wind by their necks. What townie doesn't!

[Svenskt Stål]

Sure thing. I apologize. It's been a few years since I've played a game of mafia, and my ettiquette/recollection of what is or isn't helpful is still coming back to me. Who (other than me, because I'm not about to vote myself) do you think is a better vote than Monkey? Nero and RATEDR are my other current scum candidates, if you want a concise version of my posts.

I was on nero before I switched to you so I can see that.

So this is your first game back from a longer break?

I played 3 or 4 games of Mafia in the past, but not on Mafiascum and they were a few years ago (2010?). I stopped posting on any forums at all for a few years. Missed playing Mafia the most so when I found out about here I was eager to start again.

Back on topic: I'd be willing to throw down a vote on either of those three candidates. Really, as long as it's someone I feel is vaguely scummy I'm comfortable lynching them day 1. It's really hard to do much else day 1 without the information from a flip.

Agreed. Day 1 is mostly about not doing anything too stupid lynch wise.

Your style seems really "buddying" to me, but I have nothing to compare it to so I will actually give you the the benefit of the doubt for now.

Regarding who I feel good about lynching, I have 2 people I dont want to lynch, thats AA9 and now you. I feel much better approaching this game "backwards". So I am currently "more or less fine" with 18 lynchess. Offcourse that doesnt really speak the whole truth, for example I give people diffrent amount of attention because I cant focus on everyone and I tend to value quality over quantity when it comes to reads. So you will see me bounce arround and zeroing in on people.

I also favor getting rid of low volume poster over high vollume posters. There are a few reasons but mainly its my belief that its harder to be scum with increased volume, so in my mind a person who is active actually gives me a chance to solve the game, as in that I can make a read on him, while someone lurking is playing a very easy game as scum, and making my life hard.

Who are the three you are reffering to?

I am fine with bounc

You seem very easy to work with. How should I approach the mission of deducing your role, what do you objectively think seperates your scum and town game? And what are the main goals you have as a towny if any?

I'm friendly. It's just how I am. You have questions, I answer them. I ask questions, and I hope they get answered. I'm not going to deny any possibilities, even if they're currently detrimental to my life expectancy. Just don't always expect me to be the one to point out the points that may get me killed myself

Otherwise, I'm certainly not going to ever claim my flavour role or if I have a power role or not unless I feel it's time. That always seems to be detrimental to town unless you've figured out someone who is scum, especially early game. How to spot my roles is a question I can't answer because I don't even know myself. I've actually only ever been a townie in my games. I'm looking forward to a game where I get to let my evil side out someday, but this game is not that game

Also, goal: I want to lynch scum and watch them sway in the wind by their necks. What townie doesn't!

Regarding your goal, I had that figured out, my question was more aimed towards how you intend to reach that goal? my question was poorly stated.

[Svenskt Stål]

VOTE: Jebus

[Doctor C Niall DeMencha]

Yo what's guuci? Let's do this shit.

Vote Krabs Bucket

Also Sven, if inactives are bad why no pressure on me?

~Alien Destroyer

[Svenskt Stål]

A quick look at Jebus (I only looked at post counts) shows that he is a low contributer regardless of role, 1 scum game he subbed out, in 2 others he was dead last in volume. Then I had one town game where he was a cop and he wasnt last but he was very low... so.

Regardless, I am not standing for that, as long as I live slacking will not be a option.

Edit, Doctor C, I cant pressure everyone... do you want me to jump on you instead?

[Svenskt Stål]

Fuck you hydras, all of you.

[Ravenpaw]

Hmm... got any townies? I only got one.

So far I lean town on Krab bucket and Monkeyman.
You Sven are also giving me a town vibe.
Everyone else I really need more info off and/or need more time to do some comparing and contrasting of their posts to be sure.

@Doc C- Why the vote on Krabs?

[Svenskt Stål]

Raven, help me read you town. What should I be looking at?

[Amethyst Actor]

You do realize how easy it is to find out that Vifam is part of one of the hydra's right?

I knew why he was posting in the thread, (which is why I didn't ask that.) But I didn't know why he was apparently deliberately breaking the rules of the game, however assuming the best, I decided to politely nudge him with my post. No other reason. So stop looking for dragons where their are only butterflies.

[Ravenpaw]

Raven, help me read you town. What should I be looking at?

All I can really do to help you is to say look at my posts and the reasons for my actions. Do they come across as town or scum motivated?
Also it's helpful to take a look at the people on my wagon and the reasons they have given (if any). Do any votes seem they like they are maliciously motivated?

Or maybe flipping the question would be more helpful- do you see anything scummy about me? If so please ask me about it and I will hopefully be able to clear up whatever it is.

[Ravenpaw]

Still no scumhunting off AA I see...

@AA-

Who are you top 3 scumreads and top 3 town reads currently?

[Jebus]

3. What does me trying to hard have to do with anything?

3. I think scum are more motivated in the eary game than town is. Town tend to be more like "oh, this will take time" while scum is more like "I am gonna be ontop of everyones townlist".

A quick look at Jebus (I only looked at post counts) shows that he is a low contributer regardless of role, 1 scum game he subbed out, in 2 others he was dead last in volume. Then I had one town game where he was a cop and he wasnt last but he was very low... so.

Regardless, I am not standing for that, as long as I live slacking will not be a option.

A little early in the game for this direction, no?

[Svenskt Stål]

Raven, help me read you town. What should I be looking at?

All I can really do to help you is to say look at my posts and the reasons for my actions. Do they come across as town or scum motivated?
Also it's helpful to take a look at the people on my wagon and the reasons they have given (if any). Do any votes seem they like they are maliciously motivated?

Or maybe flipping the question would be more helpful- do you see anything scummy about me? If so please ask me about it and I will hopefully be able to clear up whatever it is.

You dont get what I am asking. If someone asked me the same question I would answer that as town I am probably more reserved, I have fewer reads, I ask more questions. These are all symptoms of me being unable to approach the game in the same way regardless of alingment. Its a very hard question to asnswer, I know that.

If I read a couple of

your

scum games and a couple of

your

town games what diffrences would I find, what do you think would be of importance?



I am not saying that you are scum, I am not saying that you are town either, I am just asking questions.

@ Jebus, Is it? I need to be able to make a read on you and that was your third post. I dont think its too early to demand some participation after what... 3 days?

[Svenskt Stål]

Still no scumhunting off AA I see...

@AA-

Who are you top 3 scumreads and top 3 town reads currently?

Agreed. Welcome to the day 1 pass club.

[Svenskt Stål]

Actually, ravenpaw, please answer the question in 263... gonna need that before I add you.

[Ravenpaw]

Raven, help me read you town. What should I be looking at?

All I can really do to help you is to say look at my posts and the reasons for my actions. Do they come across as town or scum motivated?
Also it's helpful to take a look at the people on my wagon and the reasons they have given (if any). Do any votes seem they like they are maliciously motivated?

Or maybe flipping the question would be more helpful- do you see anything scummy about me? If so please ask me about it and I will hopefully be able to clear up whatever it is.

You dont get what I am asking. If someone asked me the same question I would answer that as town I am probably more reserved, I have fewer reads, I ask more questions. These are all symptoms of me being unable to approach the game in the same way regardless of alingment. Its a very hard question to asnswer, I know that.

If I read a couple of

your

scum games and a couple of

your

town games what diffrences would I find, what do you think would be of importance?

I understand, but scum-Ravenpaw hasn't come into existence (yet) so I cannot honestly say what the difference would be in my play. All my games I've been town.

@Jebus-

why are you voting Skull? And any thoughts on what's transpired since you last posted?

[Svenskt Stål]

Ohhhh, I like that, welcome to the town club ravenpaw

[Nero Cain]

Why, if you think I'm scum shouldn't more votes be kosher with you? And you never said this when you put Skull at L-3, why is that?

While I highly doubt that you'd receive 5 more votes before you checked in, I wasn't anywhere ready to end the day that early. There's also the fact (its sort of a personality thing though) both alignments can flip out. What if you got ran up to L1, wigged out and got yourself lynched? I like the current case on you but I don't think its a smoking gun. My scumplay is horrid but if you (and ESQ) really think I'd be dumb enough to lay down an eighth vote with no reasoning AND expect people to not notice then WOW.

I prefer playing as town.

lol @ ESQ agreeing with me that his post was IIOA. In post 232 he was claiming that his "IIOA" was him trying to be helpful and then in post 242 he's saying that his IIOA was there 'cause his computer ate part of his post. These don't exactly seem the same to me.

[Svenskt Stål]

Why, if you think I'm scum shouldn't more votes be kosher with you? And you never said this when you put Skull at L-3, why is that?

While I highly doubt that you'd receive 5 more votes before you checked in, I wasn't anywhere ready to end the day that early.

There's also the fact (its sort of a personality thing though) both alignments can flip out.

What if you got ran up to L1, wigged out and got yourself lynched?

I like the current case on you but I don't think its a smoking gun. My scumplay is horrid but if you (and ESQ) really think I'd be dumb enough to lay down an eighth vote with no reasoning AND expect people to not notice then WOW.

I prefer playing as town.

lol @ ESQ agreeing with me that his post was IIOA. In post 232 he was claiming that his "IIOA" was him trying to be helpful and then in post 242 he's saying that his IIOA was there 'cause his computer ate part of his post. These don't exactly seem the same to me.

First part is not a good reason since you obv was fine getting a guy to L-3.

Second part sounds like you know that Raven is town.

[Nero Cain]

Yeah, no way I was going to let Skull die. Putting Skull at l-3=//= letting her die.

Yeah, I don't know if Raven is town or not, do you?

[Svenskt Stål]

Yeah, no way I was going to let Skull die. Putting Skull at l-3=//= letting her die.

Yeah, I don't know if Raven is town or not, do you?

So you voted someone that you were never gonna lynch, which in itself is wierd, why couldnt you do the same with the other guy?
Can you understand how this looks objectively bad?

Thats a bad answer. Talk to me about how I interpret what you said as you knowing her alignment, how should I have read it? Can you see how I could read it wrong?

[GoodCopBadCop]

@Sven

I guess I have to read monkey then.

What do you think of him then?

I think monkeys anger or irritation outbursts seems genuine.

Got some examples?
Also, a genuine angry reaction to Angel's insult means that he's scum.
---

Initially Esquire looked like scum but it doesn't seem as likely anymore. His posts contain more content than I would expect from newb scum.
---

@Krab

I do agree with the viewpoint though about the Skulduggery bandwagon though, it's a good way to weed out opportunistic scum. We could try some mousetraps manoeuvres to bait them out, and hopefully we'll hit scum if we do it correctly (unless it's town playing poorly)

I can't tell if you're being serious with this...

Anyway, why would opportunistic scum vote Skull? I highly doubt any scum would expect Skull to get lynched. The skull waggon itself has provided scum with easy targets. They can just pick someone on the waggon and label them opportunistic scum.

What do you think?

Thinking about it, I think we do need more pressure on RavenPaw tbh. It comes across as a shitty way to scumhunt at best, and at worst, it's scum trying to manipulate. Although Nero's play hasn't come off as remarkably Town to me. Doesn't change my read on The Goat though, but I feel RATEDR has enlightened me to join his vote.

Yeah, don't mention your vote is for pressure unless you don't want there to be any pressure.

How much experience do you have?

[Svenskt Stål]

@Sven

I guess I have to read monkey then.

What do you think of him then?

I think monkeys anger or irritation outbursts seems genuine.

Got some examples?
Also, a genuine angry reaction to Angel's insult means that he's scum.

Examples are at the tail end of this post.

Monkey being genuine in his outburts does not equal scum, it just equals him taking offense when someone talks down on his scum game. He can be town for that.

If it was rolefishing, it was very poorly and blatantly done, to the point that I do not find it a viable scumtell. I find those who would use that as an excuse to vote somewhat suspect.

In fact,

vote Squidward.

Have you played with Monkey before? If you do, you will might agree with me that he generally scum slips early in games... Scum monkey = obv role fishing , fake claims, and poor play.

if you don't know or don't believe, either check his meta or maybe the other older players might fill you in...

I don't scumslip or play poorly. I get lynched for poor reasons(like this one). Do you want to talk about your meta?

If it was rolefishing, it was very poorly and blatantly done, to the point that I do not find it a viable scumtell. I find those who would use that as an excuse to vote somewhat suspect.

In fact,

vote Squidward.

Have you played with Monkey before? If you do, you will might agree with me that he generally scum slips early in games... Scum monkey = obv role fishing , fake claims, and poor play.

if you don't know or don't believe, either check his meta or maybe the other older players might fill you in...

I don't scumslip or play poorly. I get lynched for poor reasons(like this one). Do you want to talk about your meta?

this is what about you that i am not liking it now. now your using meta as excuse to attack me instead of talking about original subject which is you role fishing early on day1, why are you trying to change the topic?

Because you think you know better than the actual person I was having the discussion with. I was not rolefishing, I thought someone was breadcrumbing. Do you know what that is? If someone posts in a post-restriction type of fashion, there is nothing anti-town about asking why they are posting that way.

My problem with ArcAngel is, that while she is not stupid by any means, she attacks people for stupid reasons and then gets super defensive when she is attacked. She was attacking my play in general, not just my scum play. She is acting like an expert on my meta when she is far from it.

My problem with ArcAngel is, that while she is not stupid by any means, she attacks people for stupid reasons and then gets super defensive when she is attacked. She was attacking my play in general, not just my scum play. She is acting like an expert on my meta when she is far from it.

Show me when did i stated my reason is your play style here?
I have explained why i think that your role fishing looks scummy to me, but all you did is using my play style as your defence.
Can you stop talking about my playstle monkey, and if you don't see it.. My play style is lot better than you think it is..

Stating my reasons are stupid doesn't make them stupid.. infact the more you pushing them back making me to believe that you may be scum again in usual fashion.

I WAS NOT ROLEFISHING! I was inquiring about a breadcrumb.

Your reasons are stupid. You are not even stating what I did correctly and you are not listening to any counter arguments. You can be smart sometimes but you can also be dense a lot of the time too.

[Krab Bucket]

@Krab

I do agree with the viewpoint though about the Skulduggery bandwagon though, it's a good way to weed out opportunistic scum. We could try some mousetraps manoeuvres to bait them out, and hopefully we'll hit scum if we do it correctly (unless it's town playing poorly)

I can't tell if you're being serious with this...

Anyway, why would opportunistic scum vote Skull? I highly doubt any scum would expect Skull to get lynched. The skull waggon itself has provided scum with easy targets. They can just pick someone on the waggon and label them opportunistic scum.

What do you think?

Thinking about it, I think we do need more pressure on RavenPaw tbh. It comes across as a shitty way to scumhunt at best, and at worst, it's scum trying to manipulate. Although Nero's play hasn't come off as remarkably Town to me. Doesn't change my read on The Goat though, but I feel RATEDR has enlightened me to join his vote.

Yeah, don't mention your vote is for pressure unless you don't want there to be any pressure.

How much experience do you have?

First point: I understand that, but if scum can successfully pull off a blitzkrieg lynch, it benefits them greatly. It might have been an attempt to blitzkrieg lynch, but we're in WIFOM here. Also, scum tend to hang in the middle zone of lynches (butter zone), and therefore it helps us identify anyone really hasty on wagons, like Raven.

Second Point: A silly mistake on my behalf. I wanted to say more attention.

~Krabs