Micro 164: Epic Mafia (Game Over)

[rmpeacoc]

so I can't quote properly... is the site all grey and messed up for other people? My quote buttons are missing completely and the forum don't match up.

Anyway, Rob said this in 819:

Also, that logic is awful. If Pirate looked like town to a majority of players, as they do, they wouldn't have many votes on them.

First of all now you're not reading again. I wasn't the first one to say that, I was merely agreeing. At this point I'm not sure bubba is scum and I don't think molla is scum, so in believing there were probably not have been scum on pirate, yes I am suspicious. If we do somehow later on figure out that Pirate is town, I will be looking at BBMolla/bubba a lot.


Rob said this in 823:

"Also, rmp and friends have been saying I've been tunneling."

First of all, the way that you call them my 'friends' is very... manipulative. I'm not sure why you can't just say who you're talking about... especially since I'm clearly not the one leaded, but more agreeing with other people's arguments. Not that I don't have some of my own, but a few of the arguments that have been made have been quite agreeable.

Second of all, I don't have meta on you to know that you would do this as town and as scum. Because you have basically refused to look at most of the other people, and your confidence of a read on Pirate, I'm still thinking you look both look scummy.

[bubbajack8]

You were being ignorant about it.

It was literally "He's traitor because I say so. 100%. No questions asked."

You need to read.

Rob i would call you town, but you keep saying i was speculating a PR. No, i don't like your reasons for not outting it. i mean theres no scum motivation for saying someone is town and not giving a reason when you think they are PR (besides of course not wanting people to know you think they are a PR)

in fact Rob this is really nice play. soft that you think someone is a PR then get mad when we call it out. Or you can just say gut like everyone else. i don't understand why you would soft he as being a pr its not towny at all.

also you keep talking about a wincon. which i find interesting.

im beginning to think rob is traitor. it makes sense too, soft you think someone is a PR because you have no way of communicating with the mafia! which throws away the idea that fuzz is scum, because rob could tell him in mine craft. (keeping an open mind.)

I did go on to say that Rob seems very against rule-breaking, so he wouldn't tell you in minecraft he's traitor. But he is.

P-edit re:Bubba: Where did I say you planned it? I'm arguing that it could come from scum or town, with no intention of either to look town. I'm saying that scum could genuinely need to know that information because their role PM didn't specify it.

Understood, but I do assure you I'm town. And you are going to look like a bafoon when I flip town.

So much ate from Bubba.
I really don't like when people are trying to pair others on baseless speculation for flips before someone actually flips.

~R

Do you know what AtE means?

Rob's going to flip traitor. So I'll speculate all I want. I've speculated before, not sure why you are calling me out for it now.

Also if you want to call buddying. Why don't you call out Molla for wanting to call Rob scum for voting Bubba. I can say that looks that Mollia IS buddying Bubba.

Do you think Bubba is town

I've blatantly called him town time and time again and anyone who disagrees is dumb or scum.

There's a difference between calling someone town after time after time. If you want someone to agree with your Bubba town read, why don't you actually try to flesh it out rather then shoving it down people's throats saying 'Bubba is town'. We don't know why you think he's town, but we just know you think he's town.

The whole point of the game is trying to make people agree with your scum or town reads, but if you are going to be vague about so and so is town. Then don't be surprised if someone doesn't listen to the town read because you haven't shown people why you think they are town.

Perfect sense, show me where fuzzy has given reason for why I'm scum.

@Rmp - Well, yes. I don't want Pirate lynched - it would be absolutely stupid. They're obvious town. Just like BBmolla has a strong town read (somehow) on Bubba, I have a strong town read on Pirate. They are not scum, and I'm going to fight their lynch as long as it's on the table because it would be incredibly, incredibly stupid.

So when I flip town and Pirate flips scum, can you look like a HUGE Idiot. Because so far, that's what's going to happen.

Me telling fuzzy to read

Spoiler:

And GiF sheeped onto the wagon too. His first vote was clearly RVS

ffs. learn to read.

read then.

You are either lying, or not reading.

I've already explained it, you could try reading the game.

scum doesn't know traitors, been discussed earlier. Once again Fuzzy, actually read.

[bubbajack8]

Also Rob brings up a lot of his meta to say stuff is "null".

[Rob14]

Also Rob brings up a lot of his meta to say stuff is "null".

Yes, I do. I have done this in the past as well, as both town and scum. It's in my meta - it's a null tell.

lol

But seriously, I consider one of the legitimate uses of meta to be determining whether or not something exists as a tell or not. If the person in question does a particular action with consistency as both town and scum, then how can you possibly claim that action to be a towntell or a scumtell? This is where self-meta comes in. If anyone ever uses self-meta to say "I wouldn't do X as scum, so I must be town", they should be lynched immediately with prejudice. Self-meta is appropriate when it's used to say "X is a null tell, here's examples" because there's really no way to spin the fact that I've done something in the past as both alignments. There's no WIFOM involved - it's literally a fact that I've done certain actions in the past as both town and scum and I've specifically offered several times to find the examples myself and give them to you if you don't want to sort through games yourself, so I'm opening myself up. Hold me accountable to my statements if you want to - I can back them up with specific examples in both my town and scum games of me doing certain actions.

@Rmp - If you don't have my meta, go get it or ask me to give you examples of something. Do you want me to go grab you a few examples of my tunneling as town and as scum? I can do that if necessary. I have some time on Saturday.

@Jake - My initial case on Bubba was in #193. Since then, all he's done has been spout bad logic and misrep me. He's not scum-hunting. He's lining up lynches with Me, Pirate, and Fuzzy (in no particular order). He originally voted BBmolla and thought of him as prob-scum shortly after BB put his vote on Bubba, but then laid off when BBmolla moved his vote to catboi. Laid off of BB completely while never discussing his changing read since BB voted Pirate, which was one of Bubba's "targets". I don't think town would play the way Bubba has played, especially in his responses to being called out on bad logic. When called out on bad logic, he's either refused to accept that his argument was flawed, ignored the rebuttal entirely, or accepted it and then said it didn't change his read at all. Town are more willing to accept new information and alter their read as a result.

[bubbajack8]

Also Rob brings up a lot of his meta to say stuff is "null".

Yes, I do. I have done this in the past as well, as both town and scum. It's in my meta - it's a null tell.

If anyone ever uses self-meta to say "I wouldn't do X as scum, so I must be town", they should be lynched immediately with prejudice.

I find that many people joke way less as scum. I would never, for instance, post a meme as scum. It's too risky - people in the game might consider it to be a lack of scum-hunting or not being serious enough.

That meme I posted is actually a bit of an exception for me - I've posted that before as scum, IIRC. The meme was appropriate given the situation. I don't think it makes me look town, and anyone who tried to use that reasoning would be really reaching.

You turned something I scum read into a null read, that's what I'm saying you are doing. And you may correct me if I'm wrong, but you've never referred to your meta when someone's town read you, have you?

[bubbajack8]

I also asked if you had posted the meme as town, and you never responded.

[bubbajack8]

I've also said I don't read metas because people can read their on metas and adapt their play. So....

[Rob14]

I also asked if you had posted the meme as town, and you never responded.

I believe I did, and I said I didn't recall. If I didn't, I meant to.

Bubba - yes, people read their own metas and can adapt play. But that's only for scum-specific or town-specific things. If I do something as both town and scum already, what opportunity is there for me to adapt my play? There is none. It's a legitimate use of meta, and there's literally no valid argument against that particular use of meta.

I've never referred to meta when someone town-read me because I didn't need to. I'm only going to do it when it's relevant. No-one has posted a detailed town case on me, though, so there's been nothing to respond to really. Either way, I typically don't respond to town-cases on me unless I find them to be buddying or otherwise suspicious.

And Bubba, I didn't say "I posted a meme, and therefore I'm town." I never said that. You took two unrelated things out of context and put them up there with a quote of me talking about self-meta on this page and implied I was being a hypocrite. Not the case.

[bubbajack8]

Bubba - yes, people read their own metas and can adapt play. But that's only for scum-specific or town-specific things. If I do something as both town and scum already, what opportunity is there for me to adapt my play? There is none. It's a legitimate use of meta, and there's literally no valid argument against that particular use of meta.

That I'm saying is if someone says doing ____ is scummy, in the next games you would do it as town so that it would become a "null tell"

I've never referred to meta when someone town-read me because I didn't need to. I'm only going to do it when it's relevant. No-one has posted a detailed town case on me, though, so there's been nothing to respond to really. Either way, I typically don't respond to town-cases on me unless I find them to be buddying or otherwise suspicious.

Read as

I don't refer to my meta when I'm town read, because I like being town read.

And Bubba, I didn't say "I posted a meme, and therefore I'm town." I never said that. You took two unrelated things out of context and put them up there with a quote of me talking about self-meta on this page and implied I was being a hypocrite. Not the case.

You specifically said you don't post memes as scum, then you posted a meme, when I said you were trying to meta clear yourself you said, "That meme is an exception because I have posted it as scum before"

Yet again going with my idea that you can improve your meta, if you are town you are posting it now so that in the future you can call it a null read.

Or you are posting it because you only post that meme as mafia, and you can't recall posting it as town.

I would have said

I don't recall posting it as town, I believe this is my first time

[Rob14]

Exactly my point. And if I was purposefully doing it as town, it WOULD be a null tell. Do you mean to tell me that if you think I'm deliberately doing some meta-related scummy things in town games you would still call me out as scum for doing those things? It makes no sense. Your argument makes no sense. I'm done with this. It's a waste of my time. You're not going to stop tunneling me, so I'll trust that the other people in this game are intelligent enough to understand that your opinion on meta is stupid.

[Jake from State Farm]

if he flips town I am going to hate myself and i'm going to really hate Rob for making a shit case on bubba, only 1 thing in his entire case is legit, unfortunately that 1 legit thing is a MAJOR thing especially after reading WHY bubba did it.

vote: bubba

as town, you don't EVER vote someone you think is town just to prove somebody wrong

[bubbajack8]

And that's what makes you vote me know?

Exactly my point. And if I was purposefully doing it as town, it WOULD be a null tell. Do you mean to tell me that if you think I'm deliberately doing some meta-related scummy things in town games you would still call me out as scum for doing those things? It makes no sense. Your argument makes no sense. I'm done with this. It's a waste of my time. You're not going to stop tunneling me, so I'll trust that the other people in this game are intelligent enough to understand that your opinion on meta is stupid.

Considering you are traitor....

I think you are claiming you've posted it as scum in an attempt to say "I've posted it as scum and I'm admitting it, I can't be scum."

Well we know there's one person in this game who isn't intelligent because he's 100% sure I'm "conf. scum". And that's you Rob. When I flip town. I hope rmp shoots you

[JacobSavage]

Wait has rmp claimed vig?

Anyway, I don't know how they do it on EM but we hunt for scum not specific types of scum.
I could easily see bubba being scum / anti-town for voting someone he see's as town and tratior hunting. Thats just weird.

VOTE: bubba

[Piratecat]

Calling someone scum because they DISAGREE with a read IS stupid.

Nope

Yes.

Explain to me how Bubba is town.

No, you explain how he is scum.

I got bored and missed the last pages.

Read what I have missed.

I'm really not seeing that as a "town" slip jake.

@Pirate: Why do you appear to have given up?

Molla; I asked you first. I'm trying to make sure you are not drawing fake town reads out of your ass (so to speak). If you have a town read on a certain player there is a reason and I don't see why you don't want to explain it. You answer it first and then we will answer ours.

Jacob - it's because you didn't seem to vote and you claimed to have jake as scum, but you didn't really flesh it out so it felt like you gave up on it.

Jake - what makes you think we don't think you are scum? Don't say accusations without backing it up.

Bubba - no, bubba, I'm a noob so I don't know what AtE is. Seriously, yes I'm very aware of what it is. Even if I didn't - I'm sure Mollie could have explained it to me. What gave you the feel that I didn't know what it was?

Rob - it's true question I asked. We know we are flipping town so I want to know where they are going to look after that happens. It's a question I ask in order to try and get players to spread elsewhere.

~R

[bubbajack8]

Wait has rmp claimed vig?

Anyway, I don't know how they do it on EM but we hunt for scum not specific types of scum.
I could easily see bubba being scum / anti-town for voting someone he see's as town and tratior hunting. Thats just weird.

VOTE: bubba

She did, I was on her BW because I wanted Rob too see how much of an idiot he is. But he'll see how much of an idiot he is once my lynch goes through,

Also don't like that opprotinuity vote.

[Piratecat]

Oh look Jake can call Jacob out for not reading like he did to us.

Meh, still don't like the Catboi slot.

VOTE: Jacob

[bubbajack8]

Meh, still don't like the Catboi slot.

The reason I was voting Cat is now demolished UNVOTE:

[Piratecat]

That is?

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake - what makes you think we don't think you are scum? Don't say accusations without backing it up.

around post 200 something you seem to think i'm not scum, example post 254 where you say I am probably town

you don't mention my name again until post 507 where you vote me for no reason at all, but it was right around the time I call you 7 Rob out for calling each other town

529/530 - you flat out call me scum

587 you call me scum

693 you put me back in the unsure pile and you admit to having a pre-conceived notion as to how I would play and you are using the fact that i am not living up to that pre-conceived notion as a reason to doubt my alignment.

post 777 - you are frustrated at me for being arrogant, but if you thought I was scum you would just attack me for being scum. Calling me arrogant means you think i am town(maybe you know I am town).


and I noticed that you never once make a case on me, nor do you do a really good job trying to convince others to lynch me. All of this adds up to me not thinking you REALLY think I am scum.

it's quite possible that I am wrong about Rob and he is actually town and you are buddying him, but we can figure that out day 2, hopefully whoever the cop is has enough sense to investigate one of us 3 so we can finally stop bickering with each other.


ALSO - in an earlier post you claim you have been scum hunting. I disagree that you have and put the burden of proof with you, if you have been scum hunting I would like YOU to prove it to me.

[bubbajack8]

That is?

yeah, when I posted the vote I looked at who was affected by catboi's veg and that was you. So I voted you.

There was the parroting but almost everyone is.

[Jake from State Farm]

so betwedn rmp bb jake and pirate id say jake.[/b]

bb i dont recall ever calling you mafia, i said fuzzy was buddying you with his gut comment, but it was a shitty argument.

oh and GiF. doubt hes mafia.

[unless catboi is mafia, an who was affected by his veg? none other then pirate cat.

fuzzy gtfoff my ass, actually try to scumhunt.

VOTE: pirate

id like a lirate / jake lynch today

please explain why you said the bolded, but voted pirate and not me

[Jake from State Farm]

shit, the bolded was supposed to be the first line.

why say you pick me over BB & Pirate yet vote pirate and not me?

[Piratecat]

Okay. I'm aware how stupid I'm going to sound here, but wtf is veg?

[JacobSavage]

A vegetable.

Its a think you eat

[Jake from State Farm]

veg = go inactive

in Em there is no replacements so they were called veg aka vegetables and would have to be kicked from the game which people hated cause it caused the game to be un-ranked.