Newbie 1361: The Ninja Council (Game Over)

[mrbungle]

please lets just lynch nacho before he convinces us not to. the longer this goes on the less certain i am about everything

[leviathan93]

the longer things go on should make things clearer. rushing into things is usually where the most mistakes happen. I.E. why quick lynching is so bad and results in a 90 + percent chance a lynch is town.

[mrbungle]

i find your lack of faith disturbing

[gene1991]

please lets just lynch nacho before he convinces us not to. the longer this goes on the less certain i am about everything

I feel this way too sometimes, but I think that would be the easy escape. Maybe the time when you start to feel completely confused, would be the time to remove your vote and watch and read for a while.

Currently, though, I still feel strongly about Nacho.

[gene1991]

i want to hammer but first i want to hear from blaze/levi

i don't know what you need to hear from me. you already know my stance on nacho. he's probably third likely to be scum but i honestly don't have much on him. plus I wouldn't decide to lynch him until the end of the day, not when we have so long to decide.

plus remember, we would need a claim anyway.

well we got so close to lynching nacho today already. Would you be against a move of getting to L-1 on Nacho and getting him to claim? It could change some peoples mind or reaffirm some.

[leviathan93]

i want to hammer but first i want to hear from blaze/levi

i don't know what you need to hear from me. you already know my stance on nacho. he's probably third likely to be scum but i honestly don't have much on him. plus I wouldn't decide to lynch him until the end of the day, not when we have so long to decide.

plus remember, we would need a claim anyway.

well we got so close to lynching nacho today already. Would you be against a move of getting to L-1 on Nacho and getting him to claim? It could change some peoples mind or reaffirm some.

I think nacho is already at L-1 now thanks to bungle. But if everyone is up for it. What about he claims now? does everyone agree that he should? so we decide based off that. He will have to claim sometime. now or later?

[mrbungle]

he is at L1.

also i'm not a big fan of

forcing

claims unless it's lylo and we're mass claiming or something. people should figure out when they want to claim for themselves especially if they're a power role.

also.. anyone know if night action notifications get sent? like does a person who gets roleblocked or jailed get a pm telling them they were roleblocked? same question for medic saves. i was just wondering because where i come from it's standard practice to claim any time you get a action related pm to help sort out role claims later on

[leviathan93]

forcing claims is helpful in this game. especially if a person is at L-1. AND you are the one wanting him lynched. Regardless he HAS to claim before he gets lynched. lynching someone before a claim is stupid and anti-town.

I say if you want him lynched so bad then he should claim now and give us something to talk mull over.

as for notifications. they do get a notification if they die as well as if they get role blocked. or at least I am positive they do. never happened to me before. but you will also see in thread what happened.

and with the last thing you said, we would have to take your word on it but that is hard in this game if someone calls you out on it.

[mrbungle]

for what it's worth based on today's posts alone (read: last 24 hours or so) i feel pretty good about calling both levi and flip town. moreso with flip than with levi because i feel that flip is genuinely trying to figure out alignments and imo that's one of the more reliable town tells. sooooo that means that my resolve to see nacho die has hardened. i think that he and david could be double bussing but i don't want to worry about that until after one of them flips.

tbh if either nacho or david flip green then i'm gonna be fairly lost as to what to do next. i really don't want to have to re-evaluate my read on pirate because that involves reading her posts o.0

@levi

pretend it's the last day of D2. who should we lynch? if levi holds all the lynch power, who would he kill if he were forced to make a decision right now?

[leviathan93]

At this point in time if it was the end of the day, i'd probably lynch nacho just because how things are going. i'd honestly feel that all the scum are in david, nacho, and chkflip.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't really have time today, read up tomorrow.

[David Jones]

i strongly tried to prevent Nic's lynch from the beginning ....i even called out mrbungle for talking Nic to L-1 on DAY1 and explained that mostly those who self vote are town and even voting for inactivity is not a good idea ...i seriously tried to prevent Nic's lynch
then i go away for a weekend and Nic is lynched

You even called out mrbungle for taking Nic to L-1 on Day 1? That's pretty much all you did in regards to Nic's lynch. You only explained the "those who self-vote are town" bit because someone asked you about it; whenever you talked about Nic, it was mostly you either talking about bungle's vote on him or responding to the questions he asked you. I mean, I don't really think it matters if you defended your townread or not since people have different styles and all, but while the lynch was happening, you pretended like it didn't exist. I was on that train for a long, long time, people went back on the lynch a lot, but it was always there. It's not like we had 5 people jump on the wagon over a weekend.

i didnt convert mrbugle to an absolute townie in my list ....i just accepted the fact he could also be a hyper active townie
it was at a moment where nothing else was up for discussion ....so ya he could be a townie
so i just reduced him from my most scummy category

Why did you accept the fact that he could be town when you hadn't accepted that fact for so long before?

iirc i mentioned that i was suspicious of mrbungle,Hawk and you in that order

Mentioned is the key word here. You mentioned me and hawk. You never followed up on either of us ever, just bungle.

- when i called out mebungle and prevented a Nic lynch once i thought i made it clear for everyone that lynching Nic is a bad idea
and at that time only you and Hawk had votes on Nic, bungle was flip-floping around it
so before the weekend Nic had 3 votes max or 2 votes
but during the weekend gene had hammered which i didn't expect
i didn't try to convince others to remove their vote on Nic bcos its not my job and doing it at that time would have looked scummy(one person defending another)
i dont go around defend everyone of my town read ,....i just dont vote for my town read

-he posted links to other sites he plays(or so as he claimed) ,when i checked out the site it seemed everyone there were more aggressive/hyperactive on average
so i accepted the possibility that he could just be hyperactive

- i only followed up with mrbungle bcos he was the most i found suspicions and he was online most of the time i came
you and Hawk were afk most of the time

UNVOTE:

@ david

actually yes, voting people does seem to have a magical affect on whether people come back online or not. They could be active lurkers and when they see their name they jump in and comment only when they see their name.

It got you in even if it wasn't the cause. I come back after voting you and you are magically on. so yeah. it worked.

lol it could be true ...but i came back bcos i got prodded and got a PM
and my setting is if i get a PM here i'll be notified via e-mail,... so that got my attention

I also got really excited when David got prodded and I really thought he might get replaced, by someone hopefully more talkative. but he came in just in time to make a decent post. and now I wonder when he'll post again.

if you guys really feel like replacing me ...fine by me
bcos i will be kinda on and off ...rarely on

[mrbungle]

eh i dont want to lynch david anymore..... which means that now my reads are right fucked. nacho still scum tho. gonna reread

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: leviathan

[Nachomamma8]

I'll be back later today, but I'm headed out for now.

[gene1991]

You better come back today. you should explain your vote like that.
Actually, nvm, we're going to lynch you anyway.

[leviathan93]

Unvote, Vote: leviathan

votes kind of need to be explained. =P looks a bit suspicious bro.

[leviathan93]

Also David, that post looked nice but overall it didn't have that much worth. Could you update your reads and put people in order of scummiest to towniest or something more productive?

[chkflip]

You seriously think he doesn't know that?

[leviathan93]

You seriously think he doesn't know that?

and this is referring to what?

nacho being suspicious

or david not putting out a worthwhile post. either way both needed to be said.

[gene1991]

What happened? We used to go through a few pages a day, now it's been a few days and we've not even filled one page yet.
Did people just get bored? Is this what happens to us when bungle stops posting as much?

I think our own plan of waiting to lynch is not really panning out. Since we're not getting information from the people we wanted to.

All we got is broken promises by Nacho It makes me sad

I'll be back later today, but I'm headed out for now.

[Nachomamma8]

I'll be back later today, but I'm headed out for now.

Leviathan, what did you think I was going to do when I returned?

All we got is broken promises by Nacho

Sorry, by later today I meant "before I went to sleep".

[Nachomamma8]

Let me show you what I'm talking about in regards to leviathan. For reference, Dark Souls Mafia.

Opening analysis:

Spoiler: town

First I'm going to throw my opinion on the the Kerrigan situation. I am inclined to believe naturally that she is town because the likelihood of pinning scum down on the first day on the first try is incredibly low. however, the self-vote makes things a bit complicated for me. I have self voted before when I was town. I personally see it as a strategy and believe with FT that scum is probably definitely on the wagon somewhere just hoping that there will be enough votes and then a quick-lynch without a claim.

however there is the possibility of SK being scum and using it as a ploy in its own right. I feel that is a bit of a stretch though.

second point. I understand Fourtrouble's point. thought I don't know why he had to go with the LAST person on the SK wagon. there are five people on it on the very first page. I would definitely believe that scum was on it somewhere whether it be one or more. his thinking that it was the last person makes sense but honestly doesn't prove that empking IS in fact scummy.

though I like Peregrines analysis of the situation in post 51, I disagree that it SUDDENLY makes someone scummy or is ANTI-TOWN just because someone votes themselves. I really don't believe that naturally. there is a reason, we just don't know it and SK is the only one who does. yes i can see that i meas SK is hiding something, making them possibly scummy but it is not for sure and indeed not anti-town.

I have a gut read on both and Iecerint as well as Fourtrouble that I think they are all town. Fourtrouble, because I understand his situation because I have been in it myself as town and Iecerint because i think his questioning of fourtrouble is scum hunting worthy.

Spoiler: ???

First of all, Id like to say that I am extremely busy. therefore I WILL be popping IN and OUT of games without much warning. I haven't had much time fully comprehend and post my thoughts on the matter. just add little bits of insight because I WANT to be helpful. but I guess if y'all would rather I never said anything at all I guess I could just not waste the effort to even do that. =P

more specifics upcoming. but heres a bit.

bungle is obvious naive noob town but his inciting everyone and riling everyone up as well as his continued talking and digging himself a deeper hole seriously makes him a liability even though I still think he is town and most likely not scum. just that he probably shouldn't make it to lynch or lose or further along in the game if he is going to continue acting the way he is.

My proposed Alignment: Town. but BAD town.

Borno needs to simply stop lurking and join the game just so we can start getting reads on him. However people should understand that just because he is lurking that isn't necessarily a scum tell.

my proposed Alignment: NULL

David Jones

I like that he actually has content in the 3 posts he has. post 47 of his seems like he is trying to be helpful and not overly so. I give him town points for that. his second main post post 99 is nice as well. nothing out of the ordinary seeming. he posts his current reads though. my only critique of that is that I would prefer more reasoning and more posts before saying his reads but good nonetheless.

My proposed Alignment: leaning Town

FillHawk

This is what I like to see. 16 posts. He seems to be into the game and probably has a good grasp on it. I give FLLhawk a major town bonus for the way he conducts himself. He seems experienced and rational. He seems very much townie for me because of this. His post on 107 really gives me a "helping town" vibe. and just the way he has currently dealt with the game gives me town vibes.

My proposed alignment: My strongest town read at the moment.

Gene boy

I get an innocent newbie vibe from him. something that I really think is had to fake. the questions. the fact that its his first game. =P as well as what he is saying seems honest (which I know is hard to trust in this game) but I do believe in too noobie to be scum. its not an effective scum ploy.

My proposed Alignment: Town

Nacho. I always think its hard to judge someone with barely any posts. nacho seems to be stable with his 4 posts. comes in with questions for people and actively scumhunting. the only thing I don't understand is the vote for NcCage.

My proposed Alignment: Null

NicCage

Honestly, I don't see anything of substance. The self-vote was awful like they always are. the discussions it always causes are like wow and pointless. and other than that to me there has been nothing of use. something seems to be going on here.

My proposed Alignment. Null leaning scum. need to see more.

Pirate Mollie

From playing with her a few times in past experiences. I have come to find that this game is indicative of more town play than scum play. Of course thats just from like 5 games worth of data but still. It is what is currently leaning me town. I like that she seems to be apart of the game with 16 posts. She seems helpful and rational. and I guess I just need to see if she makes a scum move later in the game.

MY proposed Alignment: Leaning Town

As town, leviathan is comfortable. That contribution came early, was based on relevant things that were happening, strong, well-formed reads. Doesn't really focus on any particular reason for calling someone scum too much, just sort of chills on it. Next, check out that second contribution. First relevant thing levi said all game and it's huge, impressive wall. He fell behind because he didn't know what to post as scum, then he overcompensated for it with a huge reads list that doesn't actually say anything. Strongest scumreads are null leaning scum for someone lurking and second strongest scumread is straight null for me/a lurker and my vote on his strongest scumread is a bad thing? Strange.

Defending himself

Spoiler: town

Unvote; Vote: Leviathan

Actually, I agree with this vote. What are you reasons though?

Yes. but what are YOUR reasons?! you need your own if you are going to hang me out to dry for defending what i see as an obvi town.

@ Leviathan - Your post's reasoning is facile and equivocal.

Pedit @ FT - Consider for a moment that someone posted pure rhetoric to support a perceived strawman argument. Would you find that scummy? I think that is how you should read my reaction.

If the strawman perception on my part was mistaken and/or the question was not rhetorical, my concern starts to go away.

I don't know what a strawman argument is so don't know where you're going with that.

as for my reasoning, who cares if its easy or equivocal? thats what we want here. easy reasoning to follow. not complex reasoning no one can follow. I stated my point and what I believe. that doesn't instantly make me scummy. it disagreed with some of your points. that ALSO doesn't make me scummy.

so unless you go into more depth of what you mean, i cannot follow your reasoning because I don't understand.

then because y'all are so pointless and stupid in your reasoning cuz it doesn't MAKE me scummy.

UNVOTE: VOTE: leviathan

I did put effort into those reads. Its my opinion and what I read. also just because I don't know something doesn't make me scummy cuz i haven't looked it up. no effort, does not imply scumminess. even though you can't read the amount of effort i DID put in to it.

sorry for my misinterpretation of the word "facile" I know that word to mean easy. not have much connotation to it. and well I believe that when I said something is POSSIBLE that we should all know that it doesn't make someone scummy. it this instance. SK. SK is not guaranteed scummy because they self-voted. I prove that with my own self-vote. that y'all will see at the end of the game whenever I get lynched because I always look so scummy.

I could care less if scum KNOW about the universe. town know about it too. and everyone I would say is struggling naturally day 1 because we have no real basis arguments to go on other then gut I believe. or a scum tell that I would argue is NOT really all that necessarily scummy. I believe 80 percent or more chance that a town is the one lynched day 1. therefore I use deductive reasoning that the person we most likely choose and think is scummy and too lynch is most likely town. Not ALWAYS. but i would say the majority of the time and that we should throw that into the argument and deciding factor of who to lynch.

and i know i'm not posting much Depth. I'm not good at that kind of thing. i'm more of a philosophical argument thinker rather then an analyzer. therefore all my arguments will show that i'm not showing much depth or any "real scum hunting" my meta constantly shows that which is why I am always getting mislynched.

I never made an argument though. I only defended pre-existing ones.

Spoiler: ???

It doesn't make it anymore easier to say in my opinion. =/ I have been in games where its been town doing something stupid and in other games I have been in it has been scum from the get go and everyone just plays it off like it is "beginning town naivete" and scum went on to win.

To me, All self votes do is forces town to either "lynch the person" to make sure they won't "do something stupid like that later on" or believe they are innocent.

its a matter of opinion. I use a "whole lot of words" yes. =P and emoticons too.

my belief is to keep playing the game, wait for everyone else to come in a let town discuss what they think should be done with him as a result of him self voting. In a Newbie game, I'm inclined to believe he is town though. that seems more beginner's town move then a scum ploy.

lol. I don't soft push. =P

I AM pushing for you death but not now. =P that is the truth. no guilt here. =)

Nacho, I use the same tone every single game. =P don't see that as much of an argument against me. but it seems to me that you only THINK I COULD be scum and that I could still be town. id say your read on me isn't that strong.

Really shouldn't have to compare these two. The first is levi when he cares. The second is when he doesn't.

In other news, he's been showing a complete lack of a spine that he clearly demonstrated in the last town game I played with him. All of this laying back and waffling isn't really playstyle; it's leviathan scum.

[Nachomamma8]

like does a person who gets roleblocked or jailed get a pm telling them they were roleblocked? same question for medic saves. i was just wondering because where i come from it's standard practice to claim any time you get a action related pm to help sort out role claims later on

If you are supposed to be given a result and you are roleblocked, you are told "no result" or "roleblocked". Docs don't know when they save or not, jailed gives same confirmation as roleblocker does, jailer gets nothing.

[Nachomamma8]

bungle, what is your case on me? I have a soft spot for newbies that attack me, but I am beginning to think that I ended up writing you off as town too easily.