[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Ineffective]

Soooo...

In summary for suggested fix.

Deviner canot be culted, making his lynch a neccesity for a cult win

9 vts instead of 7

anything else that might help?

anything but a tracker/watcher

Maybe a 1 shot vig?

[Majiffy]

Your martyr is already an essentially more powerful version of a vig - he kills scum or confirms town.

[Majiffy]

2 Martyrs, 1 Cleric (cultable), 7 VT
1 Diviner
1 Cult Leader, 3-shot OR odd-night only

[Majiffy]

Might also be interesting to make the Diviner non-cultable such that cult needs to try to seek him out as a lynch target but it would be sub-optimal for him to out cult on account of the fact that cult needs to "win" for him to win.

[Ineffective]

Ya the issue with the cultable diviner we were discussing was that diviner could break late-game safegaurds by hammering an l-1 towny and claiming deviner to be culted as a joint-win scenario instead of forcing cult to find him on thier own. Llama pointing that out made me reconsider his cultability.

If cleric can be culted - he really cant clear anyone by staying on the same target because he could easily say he was on a cult if he were culted early game.

I like the idea of having 2 martryrs in case one is culted --good setup-breaker fix.

The other thing about ceric being cultable is that i feel like there should be some sort of security padding in a mafia-free cultgame.

also

from your assesment comparing cleric to a vig i think you may misunderstand the role.... It is only intended to be able to kill a towny who would have been converted the same night otherwise --- more like a conversion blocker (shrink in EMterms idk what the equiv is here) with the added bonus of the person protected from a conversion dying so as to let town know that the cleric did his job... This can end up clearing a revealed player if cleric cannot be converted--- but CANNOT kill an already culted player

[Majiffy]

Ya the issue with the cultable diviner we were discussing was that diviner could break late-game safegaurds by hammering an l-1 towny and claiming deviner to be culted as a joint-win scenario instead of forcing cult to find him on thier own. Llama pointing that out made me reconsider his cultability.

Depending on where you're at with my modified version of the cult this may or may not work - even night, or out of shots. And just because they can get away with it doesn't mean it shouldn't be a plausible scenario; Diviner actually has the shittiest role in the game up until that point.

If cleric can be culted - he really cant clear anyone by staying on the same target because he could easily say he was on a cult if he were culted early game.

I'm not following here; if Cleric is on the same person as cult is on, that person

dies town

. Where is he clearing anyone?

The other thing about ceric being cultable is that i feel like there should be some sort of security padding in a mafia-free cultgame.

?

also from your assesment comparing cleric to a vig i think you may misunderstand the role...

I was comparing Martyr to a vig...

[Ineffective]

Haha ok i misread the martyr part of that obviously...

You bring up good points for the limited shot recruit. I would favor that over even/odd to allow for variance in strategy...

But with limited shot there are some things to consider such as - if shot is blocked with a night time martyr death or the cleric, does the shot count?

as far as cleric making clears - i meant already revealed players who could have otherwise been culted later on - if htey stay on that target and the target doesnt die an alive clear is made into permenance.

[Ineffective]

and by "padding" i mean that --- in late game scenarios with a possible incoming conversion and what-not it can be useful to be able to have an actual clear. Everything outside of the cleric role is unceartain and wobbly and i viewed it as the stability of the setup... Perhaps limited shot cult takes care of that wobble.

[Ineffective]

Ya i like the 3 shot idea alot actually...

Only thing to consider now is above mentioned scenario of a blocked shot. cultable cleric is fine with limited shot.

[Ineffective]

.ya a blocked shot should probaly count...

The setup is becoming slightly more mechanical with this change but it is acceptable to avoid major swing.

cleric will probably stay on a revealed blue. and cult will probably avoid it because of limited shots. cult will have the option of culting early game for a better shot of it landing or later for a better shot of converts surviving to end game

[Ineffective]

Excuse my previous hesitance to your brilliant rebalance --- its like a musician that just got told his masterpiece concept needed alot of work before it could be released

[Majiffy]

You don't say that to a musician ever.

[Kitoari]

Multirole Mafia

A game for 12 players.

3 Mafia
9 Town

There are 7 abilities to go around:
Inspect (Town - Alignment cop | Scum - Role cop)
Protect (Both - Doctor)
Kill (Town - Vig | Scum - Strongman mafia kill)
Block (Both - Roleblock)
Track (Both - Tracker)
Neighbor
Neighbor

Generate a random number from 1 to 3. We'll call it n.
Now, randomize your playerlist. Going down the list, give the first n abilities to the first player, the second, and so on.

If scum don't get any abilities, give 2 abilities randomly:
Roleblock (only if scum don't receive randomised RB)
Kill-Immunity
Investigation-Immunity

If scum get 1 ability, give one of the above.

If n = 1 AND scum get no abilities, give them all 3.

If scum get kill,

the ability is lost

their kill becomes strongman (doc bypass) for that scum member. If two scum are neighbor with each other, it is also lost. Both count for purposes of "getting an ability". Everyone who doesn't get an ability is considered vanilla.
This was played once in ye olden times.

[Ineffective]

Do semi-opens count?

greatest idea mafia

Exactly like greater idea except with nightstart because daystart with tons of prs makes no sense to me

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hey, what are all these PRs going to base their actions off?

What if the game ends night 1 before the first day?

[JacobSavage]

Then you call it awesome and move on

@Siv: You have the discards.

Also this really shouldn't go as approved as it generally quite swingy and unbalanced.

[Ineffective]

Hey, what are all these PRs going to base their actions off?

What if the game ends night 1 before the first day?

Random night actions dont bother me in setups that are intentionally imbalanced and random... Also you have meta to go off of as an investigative pr... If you kniw there is a player you can read you avoid them... If there is a player that you feel threatened by thier towntelling abilities you can target them. Also some people ask the inverse question in setups with unknown roles. "what do you base you lynch off of without night actions"

As far as a n1 end... I dont think its likely but there can be safequards against that

[quadz08]

I mean, Night Start Greater Idea is a fine idea. Nothing wrong with it.

[borkjerfkin]

I do not get the appeal of nightstarts in general, but yeah, whatevs.

[Ineffective]

For forum mafia in general nightstart doesnt play well--- i think in the case of a semi-open bursting at the seams with prs it seems apropriate--- also - you can post discards before night phase, so thats another layer of something to base night actions on

[Hoopla]

i don't know. for most setups, nightstarts aren't very effective

[Ineffective]

<<<<<<<<<<<<------- punny

[Alduskkel]

Behold, a setup inspired by chess and the Matrix6 setup:

Knight-Errant 17p

Then, using the following table:

Town Doctor	Mafia Jailkeeper	Town Gunsmith	Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Godfather	Town Cop	Mafia Watcher	Town Tracker
Town Jailkeeper	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Bulletproof	Mafia Jailkeeper
Mafia Watcher	Town 3-Shot Commuter	Mafia Godfather	Town Roleblocker

Imagine a chess knight placed randomly on the 4x4 table. Then, pick a random move available to that knight. For example, you could pick Town Cop + Tracker vs. Mafia Roleblocker + Watcher.
Add 2 Masons and 2 Mafia Goons.
Then add a JOAT Serial Killer. The SK has 1-shot abilities according to the setup that was chosen. If an ability shows up twice (e.g. a setup with a Mafia Roleblocker and a Town Roleblocker) then the ability is 2-shot. The SK also has a 1-shot strongman.

Mafia Godfathers are both bulletproof and investigation immune.

Setup is 12-4-1 overall.

[Cheery Dog]

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Jailkeeper and Town Roleblocker all in the one setup, sounds bad to resolve, especially when you add the SK's abilities to that mix as well.

---

How balanced from a two scumteam vengeful be? (5 town, v 2 scums of godfather (still with lynch = loss) and goon)

[Mr. Flay]

Behold, a setup inspired by chess and the Matrix6 setup:

Knight-Errant 17p

Then, using the following table:

Town Doctor	Mafia Jailkeeper	Town Gunsmith	Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Godfather	Town Cop	Mafia Watcher	Town Tracker
Town Jailkeeper	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Bulletproof	Mafia Jailkeeper
Mafia Watcher	Town 3-Shot Commuter	Mafia Godfather	Town Roleblocker

Imagine a chess knight placed randomly on the 4x4 table. Then, pick a random move available to that knight. For example, you could pick Town Cop + Tracker vs. Mafia Roleblocker + Watcher.
Add 2 Masons and 2 Mafia Goons.
Then add a JOAT Serial Killer. The SK has 1-shot abilities according to the setup that was chosen. If an ability shows up twice (e.g. a setup with a Mafia Roleblocker and a Town Roleblocker) then the ability is 2-shot. The SK also has a 1-shot strongman.

Mafia Godfathers are both bulletproof and investigation immune.

Setup is 12-4-1 overall.

...that sounds like a horrifically complicated way for the mod to screw it up and/or end up with an unplayable game anyway.

Maybe blend it with PYP: Mod picks the first power role. First player to signup picks a knight move to enable the second role, second player uses a knight move from that spot, etc. Or do it after WC assignment, but that sounds fraught with disaster.