Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[Varsoon]

Don't agree with the vote.
I agree that NicCage's wagon is being pushed really fast.

[hp [leaves]]

I'm not sure why NicCage has rounded up so many votes so quickly. it seems like people have latched onto a small handful of things he's said and jumped to seemingly ridiculous conclusions. I don't see how we have enough information about him to justify the number of votes he has. I think NC is more likely town whose wagon is being pushed by scum because it could feasibly give an easy d1 lynch for them.

I disagree. Driving a wagon to L-2 on page 4 is too bold for scum. We're looking for the sneaky guys here. I don't think anyone on the wagon is scum. Except Toomai

[hapahauli]

Don't agree with the vote.
I agree that NicCage's wagon is being pushed really fast.

Since you've read the thread enough to know about the wagon, I'd assume you've read the thread enough to propose an alternative. Any suspicions?

[hapahauli]

@ HP

post_id=4931358 time=1367766396 user_id=10128]

Hey Toomai, I think you've started to bus NicCage too soon.

I'd move my vote to you if Cage's explanation for his vote wasn't a description of his last vote (you know, if we exclude the reasoning part). But we still have tomorrow, right?

post_id=4932237 time=1367792341 user_id=10128]

I'm not sure why NicCage has rounded up so many votes so quickly. it seems like people have latched onto a small handful of things he's said and jumped to seemingly ridiculous conclusions. I don't see how we have enough information about him to justify the number of votes he has. I think NC is more likely town whose wagon is being pushed by scum because it could feasibly give an easy d1 lynch for them.

I disagree. Driving a wagon to L-2 on page 4 is too bold for scum. We're looking for the sneaky guys here. I don't think anyone on the wagon is scum.

Except Toomai

Why are you suspicious of Toomai? I can't find any rationale in your filter whatsoever.

[hp [leaves]]

Well, first, he took Cop's second RVS vote too seriously (unless Cop was also serious, which I doubt). Secondly, Cop wagon was evidently a wagon I didn't like and Toomai was on it. Thirdly, his overall play strikes me as overly cautious. I can't say he's the best good lynch for today, but he's worth going after tomorrow. And also today.

[Toomai]

1. If I took something too seriously, that's an error in judgement, which is not alignment indicative.
2. So you didn't like the GCBC wagon, but that doesn't make people on it scum. You need more explanation there.
3. I am always cautious.

[hapahauli]

post_id=4932314 time=1367795256 user_id=10128]

Well, first, he took Cop's second RVS vote too seriously (unless Cop was also serious, which I doubt).

Secondly, Cop wagon was evidently a wagon I didn't like and Toomai was on it. Thirdly, his overall play strikes me as overly cautious. I can't say he's the best good lynch for today, but he's worth going after tomorrow. And also today.

Those are reasonable points, but why didn't you bring them up before? You say he's worth pressuring today, yet idly stating he's suspicious twice, then not stating your rationale until I prod you about it isn't a very effective way of "going after" someone.

[hapahauli]

@ Toomai

What is your current read on GBGC? You were suspicious of him initially, then dropped all mention of him to go after NC. You completely lost interest in him (not asking him questions, etc) without having ever explained why in-thread.

Also, one thing that gets me about your play is that you seem too trusting. You've given town-reads on myself, Cherry, and even Daemon to an extent. Your suspicions on GBGC also play into this, where you kinda just dropped them a while ago and haven't shown any interest in GBGC since.

[Toomai]

I see GCBC as mostly null leaning weak scum. My original vote on it was because I took 19 seriously, which others have said may not be the case and I now somewhat agree with. Also didn't like how the sequence of 37-39-41 contained dubious logic, a sheep vote, and a request/demand for more sheep - the wagon itself was not a bad idea for why I said in 87 but he jumped on it without even waiting for the answer to the question of why.

Actually, now that I look at it, he jumped on it after NicCage asked why him and not me. That makes no sense.

Vote: GoodCopBadCop

I want these things answered:

• 19: Was this a serious (non-RVS) vote, and if so why?
• 39: Why did you only sheepvote NicCage after he asked why he was being singled out?

[hapahauli]

I'm not really following you here.

...Also didn't like how the sequence of 37-39-41 contained dubious logic, a sheep vote, and a request/demand for more sheep - the wagon itself was not a bad idea for why I said in 87 but

he jumped on it without even waiting for the answer to the question of why.

Actually, now that I look at it, he jumped on it after NicCage asked why him and not me. That makes no sense.

Regarding the bolded, why do his actions not make sense? From my point of view, NC had made two questionable posts, and GBGC simply plopped his vote down in response. In fact several players (including yourself) have acknowledged that those posts by NC were sketchy. Given this, how could you be suspicious of GBGC for doing essentially what you did, but earlier?

[Cheery Pie]

It seems as though you object more with how I presented my suspicions than my actual suspicions. If so, stop this pointless nitpicking. You're wasting both of our times.

I agree with this, however I consider it to have been a necessary evil. Just latched on to something and thus became a stickler for clarity as a result, didn't deliberately set out to do so or waste time. I don't feel the time has been wasted. I've actually appreciated the responses and am better off for them, but if that's done your head in then...

So what you said on Varsoon seemed accurate, but too early to establish anything. Yet, now there's been a couple of posts that sound a bit like a tennis commentator saying "and he's used his racquet to hit the ball" in terms of game insight (ie. very little). I don't like the developing pattern, it's still too early to establish this as an alignment read imo, but I hope it changes nonetheless.

And Daemon remains cemented with that 1 post in hand. I've asked him to follow up on it, you want him to follow up on it, I'm sure everyone would like some sort of follow up. But until there is a follow up we'll have to remain level-headed with our discontent. It's not an easy or necessarily sensible road to point

j'accuse

fingers at either of these two just yet.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

I'm not sure why NicCage has rounded up so many votes so quickly. it seems like people have latched onto a small handful of things he's said and jumped to seemingly ridiculous conclusions. I don't see how we have enough information about him to justify the number of votes he has. I think NC is more likely town whose wagon is being pushed by scum because it could feasibly give an easy d1 lynch for them.

VOTE: Daemon385. His first post was very iffy and he hasn't posted since then; it could just be his newness clouding his actions but for the moment I think this is a good place for my vote.

the "why me and not someone else" comment has absolutely no town motivation, instead it is a self preservation comment. That is more than enough reasonable doubt. Not to mention he hasn't really done much to show he is town imo

- J

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

so jake from rainbowdash, why is it obvious that zefiend is town?

I can't speak for dashie and at first I wasn't sure where she was getting it from but if you look at what was being said.

Hap is pushing the hp suspicion too hard, especially because it's based on faulty logic (saying that HP leaves hates RVS yet her RVS'd). HP leaves didn't random vote, he voted for a reason. Hap later changes his reasoning into "HP leaves wanted to policy lynch"

all of that is pushing way too hard on something that is completely null. Hap's reaction to HP's vote on BadCop comes off very bad and zef is really the only one who called it out. That gives Zef town points imo

post 58 just reiterates that Hap is seems very serious about HP being scum, yet the reasoning for Hap's suspicion is absolutely horrible, especially when there is more scummier people. Personally HP's vote on Bad cop looked like a reaction test to which Hap reacted badly

Maybe dashie can explain her thoughts, but that is basically what i came up with on my own.

-J

[Toomai]

Actually, now that I look at it, he jumped on it after NicCage asked why him and not me. That makes no sense.

Regarding the bolded, why do his actions not make sense?

the "why me and not someone else" comment has absolutely no town motivation, instead it is a self preservation comment.

I didn't think of this. I figured that whenever anyone asks "why X and not Y" they are asking a reasonable question that deserves an answer, but I didn't consider that the case where X = self has a possibility of being blame-shifting.

[qwints]

Vote Count 1.3

NicCage: Cheery Pie, hp[leaves], Jake from Rainbowdash, ɀefiend, (4)
GoodCopBadCop: Scott Brosius, Toomai (2)
ɀefiend: GoodCopBadCop, NicCage (2)
Varsoon: Hapahauli (1)
Daemon385: ac1983fan (1)

Not voting -- Dyslexicon, Varsoon, Daemon385 (3)

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch

Daemon385 has been prodded.

Day One ends in (expired on 2013-05-20 12:00:00)

[Varsoon]

Don't agree with the vote.
I agree that NicCage's wagon is being pushed really fast.

Since you've read the thread enough to know about the wagon, I'd assume you've read the thread enough to propose an alternative. Any suspicions?

There's a lot of content here, and that's a good thing. It just means I need to read up a bit more.

As of now, though? I could see scum between Dyslexicon and Daemon. I find that scum doesn't jump on early wagons so much. That said, I'm pretty sure there's gotta be some scum between the NicCage and zefiend wagons. I'm really suspicious off GoodCopBadCop, less so of Ponydash and NicCage.

Either way, narrowing down suspicions isn't a good thing to do. I'll likely ISO everyone in a few days and figure out where I stand on all of this.

As far as people calling me scum, I find it laughable. I just haven't been very active or produced much so far, and for that, I do apologize. I should really be on V/LA this week, but I will be peeking in from time to time.

[NicCage]

Sorry if you didn't like my question. I didn't feel that hp had the grounds to vote either me or toomi, so I wanted to know what logic he was using to make a distinction.

Now that you've been enlightened toomai, do you agree with Jake?

[Dyslexicon]

If this is the best you can come up with after being gone for 2 days, I can't say that I'm thrilled. There's not one remotely concrete read in here. I get that it's possible not to be sure of things at this stage, but geez don't you have any questions to ask? Aren't you curious about

anything

?

Nope, didn't have any questions really. The things I was the most curious about while reading was addressed quite quicly after.

We have 4 pages of thread. That's not difficult to catch up on at all. You sound lazy and lack any sense of urgency to find mafia. What gives?

I'm awakening.

As of now, though? I could see scum between Dyslexicon and Daemon. I find that scum doesn't jump on early wagons so much.

Doesn't this include everyone not jumping on the wagons? Like Hapa or you i.e?

@Toomai: Surely you must have noticed how many players there was in this game before stating your worries about the wagon on GCBC? (post #47)
Your post #87 gives your opinion on NC's "bad posts" with a vote. I'd assumed you were also talking about his "Why me and not Toomai". But in post #113 it seems like you didn't offer this post much thought at all, which I find strange given the nature of the post an that it involved you. If you first found it to be a reasonable question, why didn't you pursue it when NC didn't get an answer, only heat. Your reactions doesn't make much sense imo.

@Jakedash: I'm also wondering how Zef's post #58 is wow-town, given that he has not played on mafiascum before?

[GoodCopBadCop]

Don't agree with the vote.
I agree that NicCage's wagon is being pushed really fast.

Since you've read the thread enough to know about the wagon, I'd assume you've read the thread enough to propose an alternative. Any suspicions?

There's a lot of content here, and that's a good thing. It just means I need to read up a bit more.

As of now, though? I could see scum between Dyslexicon and Daemon. I find that scum doesn't jump on early wagons so much. That said, I'm pretty sure there's gotta be some scum between the NicCage and zefiend wagons. I'm really suspicious off GoodCopBadCop, less so of Ponydash and NicCage.

Either way, narrowing down suspicions isn't a good thing to do. I'll likely ISO everyone in a few days and figure out where I stand on all of this.

As far as people calling me scum, I find it laughable. I just haven't been very active or produced much so far, and for that, I do apologize. I should really be on V/LA this week, but I will be peeking in from time to time.

Why do you more/less suspicious of me, pony, and niccage?

also, why is it laughable to be suspicious of you when you haven't been producing much?

[NicCage]

zefiend, why are you voting me?

[hapahauli]

It seems as though you object more with how I presented my suspicions than my actual suspicions. If so, stop this pointless nitpicking. You're wasting both of our times.

I agree with this, however I consider it to have been a necessary evil. Just latched on to something and thus became a stickler for clarity as a result, didn't deliberately set out to do so or waste time. I don't feel the time has been wasted. I've actually appreciated the responses and am better off for them, but if that's done your head in then...

So what you said on Varsoon seemed accurate, but too early to establish anything. Yet, now there's been a couple of posts that sound a bit like a tennis commentator saying "and he's used his racquet to hit the ball" in terms of game insight (ie. very little). I don't like the developing pattern, it's still too early to establish this as an alignment read imo, but I hope it changes nonetheless.

And Daemon remains cemented with that 1 post in hand. I've asked him to follow up on it, you want him to follow up on it, I'm sure everyone would like some sort of follow up. But until there is a follow up we'll have to remain level-headed with our discontent. It's not an easy or necessarily sensible road to point

j'accuse

fingers at either of these two just yet.

Eh sorry, it's just a bit frustrating being on the receiving end some times. I don't mind nitpicking, but when it gets to something like this...

So you've picked two players with 1 post, and both those singular posts give you an indication of their alignment, yet 0 posts doesn't, and those two players both having made 1 post that so happens to both raise your suspicion is somewhat coincidental, so it's not a policy lynch on lurkers, just suspicion on two less than active players, but even lesser active players aren't suspicious, so we should just take it at face value that these posts were scummy and you've openly expressed that they were scummy and in no way should we group to coincidental nature of their post count together or the fact that you collectively referred to them as "1-post-wonders" and have simply identified two scummy posts and directed everyone to them... *gasps for breath*

... it's a bit much. It's something that you can't help but go

"ughhhhh realllly...."[/] at... ya know?

Aaaaanyway I hope you understand where I'm coming from after all of this. If not, all I can really say is that there are large stylistic differences in our play. It's my first game on this site, so it's not like I'm going to magically conform to to how things work here. However I do believe my approach has it's own merits, and it's brought me a ton of success in the past.

[hapahauli]

@ Jake

so jake from rainbowdash, why is it obvious that zefiend is town?

I can't speak for dashie and at first I wasn't sure where she was getting it from but if you look at what was being said.

Hap is pushing the hp suspicion too hard, especially because it's based on faulty logic (saying that HP leaves hates RVS yet her RVS'd). HP leaves didn't random vote, he voted for a reason. Hap later changes his reasoning into "HP leaves wanted to policy lynch"

all of that is pushing way too hard on something that is completely null. Hap's reaction to HP's vote on BadCop comes off very bad and zef is really the only one who called it out. That gives Zef town points imo

post 58 just reiterates that Hap is seems very serious about HP being scum, yet the reasoning for Hap's suspicion is absolutely horrible, especially when there is more scummier people. Personally HP's vote on Bad cop looked like a reaction test to which Hap reacted badly

Maybe dashie can explain her thoughts, but that is basically what i came up with on my own.

-J

Are these your own suspicions, or simply your interpretations of your other head's suspicions?

Either way, I have many gripes with this. For one, it's some very convoluted logic. You basically assume that two people are town (HP and Zef) in order to call me suspicious, which is insane this early in the game.

Secondly, you're fixated on me taking my suspicions on HP too far when that's been over and done with for a while now. At this point you seem to be beleaguering the point here, which screams hypocrisy on your end.

[hapahauli]

@ Varsoon

Don't agree with the vote.
I agree that NicCage's wagon is being pushed really fast.

Since you've read the thread enough to know about the wagon, I'd assume you've read the thread enough to propose an alternative. Any suspicions?

There's a lot of content here, and that's a good thing. It just means I need to read up a bit more.

As of now, though? I could see scum between Dyslexicon and Daemon. I find that scum doesn't jump on early wagons so much. That said, I'm pretty sure there's gotta be some scum between the NicCage and zefiend wagons. I'm really suspicious off GoodCopBadCop, less so of Ponydash and NicCage.

Either way, narrowing down suspicions isn't a good thing to do. I'll likely ISO everyone in a few days and figure out where I stand on all of this.

Why are you suspicious of GCBC? You seem to have some conviction about him, and no rationale to speak of.

Also elaborate on Dyslexicon an Daemon please. Them not jumping on wagons isn't allignment indicative - hell you yourself are suspicious on that basis no? Are there other reasons why you could "see" them as scum?

As far as people calling me scum, I find it laughable. I just haven't been very active or produced much so far, and for that, I do apologize. I should really be on V/LA this week, but I will be peeking in from time to time.

What's laughable about it? You've given us no content - what are we supposed to think?

Anyway you seem more active now, so I'll give you time to do your thing. I do expect you to contribute though, as if not for you claiming to be "busy", your behavior so far is worthy of suspicion.

[hapahauli]

Actually, now that I look at it, he jumped on it after NicCage asked why him and not me. That makes no sense.

Regarding the bolded, why do his actions not make sense?

the "why me and not someone else" comment has absolutely no town motivation, instead it is a self preservation comment.

I didn't think of this. I figured that whenever anyone asks "why X and not Y" they are asking a reasonable question that deserves an answer, but I didn't consider that the case where X = self has a possibility of being blame-shifting.

Soooo... then you have no reason to be suspicious of GBGC then... is that correct?

Honestly I find it rather hard to believe that you were so suspicious of NC yet failed to think about one of the major reasons behind people voting him.

[hapahauli]

Oh,

##Unvote Varsoon

'cause of post #122. Forgot to do that.