Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[TheIrishPope]

1. Voting does nothing, really. An intent to vote is the same as a vote in either case. It brings pressure.
2. Of course I was afraid Shawn was town, as you might be town, or Monty might be town, or Dino might be town, or anyone might be town.
3. I suspect everyone at any given time. Town reads don't relief you of suspicion.
4. I don't really like how you list things... This makes no sense. My opinions affect the game somehow? Just ignore them if you want.
5. #736 was awful. You kind of fucked it up, sis.

[Tierce]

Votecount 2.8

(3)

TheIrishPope

- Thor665, MontyWhittaker, Nekoko
(1)

Nekoko

- TheIrishPope

(3)

Not voting

- Commandodude, Ms Marangal,

(Nekoko,)

Mathdino

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.
The deadline is May 13 at 5:55 PM PDT. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-05-13 17:55:00)

[MontyWhittaker]

TL;DR: sycorax, Nekoko, Commandodude, Thor, Marangal, Monty -- from towniest to scummiest

So what changed, Irish? Besides saying that Nekoko "fucked up" a specific post, do you have anything legitimate to add to the conversation besides switching your vote from the person you say is scummiest to a person quite close to "towniest" on your list?

[TheIrishPope]

This whole day happened... Over 60 posts have been made since I said that. I'm not allowed to change opinions?
That's rude of you.

[MontyWhittaker]

You certainly are, but making an irrational move such as changing a vote without giving any really legitimate reasons why is not very good for your game, no matter what. Especially since you already have three votes on you...

[TheIrishPope]

I thought I did in 775, but here we go again:
1. Nekoko gives reasons, albeit faint ones, to have a town read on some, but gives no reasons for scum reads on the others. She believes anyone who does not fit in this category must fall in another. This is the Black and White logical fallacy.
2.

That is I think if shawn flips scum, tip is probably too

What happened to this? In my eyes, Nekoko now seems too inconsistent.

[Thor665]

You certainly are, but making an irrational move such as changing a vote without giving any really legitimate reasons why is not very good for your game, no matter what. Especially since you already have three votes on you...

That sorta makes me want to call him town, frankly - he's being almost silly antagonistic.

[Tierce]

Votecount 2.9

(3)

TheIrishPope

- Thor665, MontyWhittaker, Nekoko
(1)

Nekoko

- TheIrishPope

(3)

Not voting

- Commandodude, Ms Marangal, Mathdino


Searching for a replacement for Commandodude.
Mathdino has been prodded.

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.
The deadline is May 13 at 5:55 PM PDT. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-05-13 17:55:00)

[Tierce]

Regfan replaces Commandodude.

[Regfan]

Hey everyone. Got my role PM and super pumped to finally play a newbie game again (Remember them being very enjoyable last time I IC'ed one). I'm going to boil a pot of tea and then do a read through of the thread, if there's anything you want me to look more into specifically let me know soon.

[Regfan]

Also while it's superlame can someone please unvote while I go through the thread - I don't want the risk of someone quick-hammering.

[Regfan]

I'm up to page 26, I've got a few strongish-reads but a few of my reads have changed about 20-30 times already reading through the thread. I'm going to take a little break and get back to finishing reading through the thread in about an hour (PS: That Shawn lynch was awful; He was bleedingly obvious town).

[Regfan]

Alright, got to page 29 and I'm going to stop here because it's now 4am and I need to try and get some sleep. In the meantime I'm serious about someone unvoting; Really don't want to wake up to see a blitzhammer have occurred, me dying and having read the game for nothing.

[Ms Marangal]

ehh...

Fuck it, I think I'm going to hammer. TIP was, and has been one of my scum-reads so...

I won't hammer unless I get the go, and until I get the claim. the only people not on that wagon are you, me and Dino and I trust Dino to not quickhammer

[TheIrishPope]

A claim is where I say my role?

[Ms Marangal]

Yes, a claim is where you say your role

[TheIrishPope]

But the Doctor is gone... from a game theory standpoint, is this bad or good?

[Ms Marangal]

Ugh...

forget about it then

VOTE: commando

[TheIrishPope]

Commando = Regfan now
Welcome Regfan!

[Thor665]

Unvote: IrishPope

[Regfan]

Ms Marangal, can you explain to me how you didn't notice that I'd replaced into Commanders slot and how you didn't notice that I'd requested that no hammer be placed on Irish

twice

yet you were still content to state intention to lynch him and question getting a claim out of him.

I was going to compile this into one massive list but right now there's a few of my reads that I'm iffy about and want to do a re-read through of some people (Irish / Nekoko / Mrs Margaral) again in about an hour - just want to get my head clear first and then I want to do some cross-ISOs to finish it of so you'll get this in pieces.

So three reads that I'm superconfident in at the moment are:

Town:

Thor:

While I completely detest Thors push on Shawn and cannot fathom how he didn’t stop, reassess and realize that Shawn was oozing genuineness his push comes across as if he legitimately believes his case and reasons hold a lot of merit. What I find to be his strongest town-tell by

a lot

though is Post 452 and Post 461 – it’s posts I don’t see Thor!Scum making, especially in a Newbie game. It’s him being somewhat worried that he’d die at night and leaving behind reads and thoughts – his ‘Irish/Commando’ would be town based on a Scum!Shawn lynch is something I can understand and his “Look at MM” feels like genuine belief that she might be mafia. Thor!Scum from what I recall (I'm not 100% on this meta and I haven't played with him for a little while though so take it with a grain of salt) is less aggressive in pushing a lynch and doesn't like going 1 v 1 as much as Thor!Town does (An example of Thor going 1 v 1 against someone when he's town similar to how he did in this game with Shawn is in ADwD where did it against Zdenek). So very confident he's town here.

Monty:

I actually had a scum-read on him based on his initial few posts (And what I was using as process of elimination (PoE) at the time) but his posts as the game progressed improved immensely. His attempt to get content and a 'feel' for where Shawns head at is very understandable and the sheer number of times he attempts to do so comes across as if his intentions aren't just to manipulate the answer into a reason to vote Shawn but really a way to get a solid read on him - examples are in Post 535, Post 543 and Post 617. I really like his "Lets play a game and assume he's mod confirmed town - what's reads then" in Post 586 as it's an attempt to get legitimate stances and opinions from people. One of the biggest things I like about Monty though is Post 607 comes across as very genuine and very town, specifically the statement that he wouldn't have FoS'ed him if he didn't suspect him - the phrasing of the entire line doesn't feel at all contrived. His Post 677 of "I thought I had this one as well" again feels genuine and is a fairly strong town-tell. I also think his post-hammer paranoia of Sahura combined with the fact that she died makes him far more likely town (Scum generally don't kill players they set up the ability to push towards) and paranoia after getting a lynch wrong post-hammer, one that you're confident in is super natural. Also while I disagree with parts of his Irish case I think the way he's put it together feels like he believes it's strong and correct.

MathDino (Syc):

I actually had a relatively strong town-read on Syc but her tattering down of activity weakened that quite a bit. I think her ‘Shawn jumped on a weak Sakura’ and ‘You might be right but his vote was opportunistic, it’s early we’ll see’ together in Post 65 and Post 66 show genuine scumhunting and reads as a decent town-tell. I like her Post 121 – it’s very relaxed and doesn’t feel like she has any alternate agenda in it other than to calm the game down (And scum like paranoia, chaos and emotional reactions to occur from players) – for similar reasons I think Post 228 is a town-tell. Her pushing to get a response from Isish in Post 247 and Post 251 again comes across as genuine scumhunting. Maths replacing in strengthens my town-read quite a lot; I like his reasoning behind his reads in Post 753 and think his suggestion of hypo’ing in Post 754 is

massively

town-mindset motivated, it’s not a post I think scum would post here at all. His reasoning behind reading town on Monty in Post 758 is super understandable (I find one of the biggest town-tells to be someone going through the exact same thought-process – so him town-reading Monty for that is very legitimate).

[Regfan]

Scum:

Nekoko:

This is by far my strongest scum-read (I’m unsure why she wasn't lynched yesterday and why she’s not really being pushed on by anyone bar Irish today). Her Post 156 which is her initial post has a scum-slip level contradiction in it. In that post she states that Irish’s posts are suspicious, specifically due to think thinking that Shawn seems so town that he’s mafia and she states that he’s mimmic’ed Sycorax but at the end of her post she states “Also I find Shawn suspicious although he looks like an aggressive reckless newb town” which is literally the thing that she’s saying Irish is mafia for stating. There's no way whatsoever she'd think he was mafia for it if she herself believed and agreed with the same thing, it's rather instead her just making up justification to back up a bullshit vote. Nekkoks scum-read on MM in Post 171 feels off…the fact that he questions there being a slip based on the use of ‘her’ doesn't feel legitimate at all – there’s little way that’d ever be a slip – but something to note; watch this scum-read of hers on MM disappear as the game progresses. Her Post 306 where she jumps on the Shawn wagon repeats the reasoning that Hana used in Post 269 but is stated in a way that makes it come across as if she's trying to claim it's her own 'unique reasoning' (That's something scum do a lot - they don't like being associated with bandwagoning with no reason so they copy someone elses reason and make it look like it's their own one). Her MM scum-read as I thought vanishes and instead she calls MM town based on "Not finding her vote suspicious" that's the entire reasoning behind it (When she flips scum the chances that MM is scum via interactions are incredibly high) - the only other town-read she's stated is on Thor while stating no real comment on Monty or Syc other than they're in her PoE pool to lynch which is scum leaving options open down the line.

Just need to give Irish and Ms a few more reads through. (Irish - If you could link me to a town and a scum completed game of yours off-site that'd be helpful).

[TheIrishPope]

Hmmm....
I have never played as scum. I still could give you town ones. Is that alright with you?

[Regfan]

Yeah, that'll suffice - I'm taking an hour break (Going for a run), I'll read them when I get back as well as finishing the ISO's here.

While I'm gone though I'd like to know whether you agree or disagree behind any of my reasoning behind my reads so far (And if so what/why).

[TheIrishPope]

Spoiler:

http://www.cracked.com/forums/topic/129 ... ation/2220

Starts at reply 2226
Check backwards and forward because I have another game done as well and a current one (where my role cannot be disclosed)
I know everyone is checking it right now

You really surprised me with this very elegantly orchestrated post, and the follow up scum one, and I might have to say I disagree just a tad on Monty. I am not completely sure, but something is off about him.
Will you vote, or will you develop reads first?