Newbie 1351: Hyrule's Under Attack.. Interesting..-GAME OVER

[Ineffective]

Gif.. Hellooo¿¿¿¿¿

i want some kind of confirmation that you come off as forced to people when you are a town VT.... i dont even see those posts as forced but its all perspective.

[Ineffective]

Ooooh i just had a lightbulb... After Z claims we can play a mini-game

[fferyllt]

I feeel for Z7. It must seem like the game gets turned on its head every night.

[Ineffective]

When i wake up he will be due for a prod i believe?

[Z7-852]

I'am sorry I was away LA/V last day without saying. Day was just crazy. I had work, studies and playing mafia on other forum. Won't write my normal summary because there is 14 pages to read. Just writing down few ideas that comes to mind and trying to keep it short. It's just too much for me to try to summarize 14 pages in my normal style.

Even if there is only 50% chance of goodmornings claim to be true (#1768), I for now believe goodmorning. Seemed honest claim back there. fferyllts logic on issue (#1783) was good but it rest on the assumption that I'am a scum that don't actually have nothing to do with goodmornings claim.

I agree with Ineffective (#1837) that Mac was budding goodmorning little. Don't know if he was just trying to be objective but after that discussion I have to more strongly agree with Inneffectives case against goodmorning. Mac and goodmorning just doesn't seem a viable scumpartners considerating how goodmorning have been attacking Mac during D1.

VisceraEyes willingness to go to massclaim mode is suspicious as hell to me. Claiming a doctor (#1994) is like painting a big target sign for all the scums to see. As a doctor I would never do this unless I was at L-1. When goodmorning stated that he trusted (#2027) VisceraEyes claim that felt odd to me. But there is no way that both scums would claim a power role. I just find this whole ordeal unsettling. But since you wanted this I will say I'am a vanilla townie. For me this thing looked like VisceraEyes plot to flush out other power role if any.

This is all that I got for quick read. I will try to be more active in the future and always tell if there is sudden workload on me.

Scumometer (tm)
fferyllt < Ineffective < GuyInFreezer < Mac < goodmorning < VisceraEyes

[Mac]

Z, that makes zero sense & looks like you are trying to cast suspicion on VE.

How would him claiming doctor make any sense, especially considering a) the already claimed JK and b) he went first. If VE was scum, claiming a PR before anyone was a monumental risk to take & therefore I'm all for believing him more at the moment.

I like how you believe GM's claim and still paint her as the second top scumread, though.

[Z7-852]

Consider this case:

• VisceraEyes and other player A are scumbuddies. goodmorning is not A.
  
• goodmorning claims PR that scums know to be true
  
• VisceraEyes gambits and claims an other power role the Doctor
  
• Unless we lynch a scum today this forces goodmorning to jail VisceraEyes or creates this setting
  
• This doesn't prevent player A from killing goodmorning during night.
  
• Next day begins and everyone thinks VisceraEyes is a jailed doctor and goodmorning is dead.

I know the logic is a stretch but considering that there are 50% chance that claiming a power role is false claim this is a gambit that I would be willing to take as a scum when we don't have a clear scum pair founded. I have to think settings like this because I find to benefit to claim a doctor role unless there have been no-kill during night. It's just too big of a risk.

And after goodmornings claim I said I kind of believed her claim but were still willing to lynch her. This means that I wasn't and aren't certain that the claim is legit.

[Mac]

Okay... but VE claiming first meant that any PR AFTER he claimed (so, everyone I think? Possibly except Ineffective) would know there was a liar in GM and VE.

I guess I can see your point, but I think it's quite a big risk to take for such a widely unsuspected player. The only benefit if he was lying would be if there was 1 PR (GM) and he lucked out, or if the other PR claimed and GM was lynched (due to being most suspect) - still, I don't think he'd lie at this point.

So you doubt both our PR claims Z?

[GuyInFreezer]

Gif.. Hellooo¿¿¿¿¿

i want some kind of confirmation that you come off as forced to people when you are a town VT.... i dont even see those posts as forced but its all perspective.

As I said, it only applies to EM, hence off-topic.

[Z7-852]

I don't doubt that both of the claims are false. That's just too unlikely. I agree with Mac (#2082) that any PR after VisceraEyes would know that there is a liar but I think that might be risk that scum is willing to take. And this is a huge gambit from player that is under no pressure. I just don't see what VisceraEyes and the town had to gain in order to reveal a Doctor without any unique information. Yes we know one "confirmed town" but scum knows both of the power roles what helps them. Can VisceraEyes or somebody else explain logic why we would want to reveal a doctor?

I understand to claim cop. Then we would have two "confirmed town" and goodmorning, but doctor is just so useless role to claim. It only helps scums when we know who is the doctor. If VisceraEyes did the gambit I said there is a possibility that the real doctor don't want to come forward because then scum would know them. Because VisceraEyes outed first any other power role are hesitant to reveal themself because that would but them under heavy suspicion.

[GuyInFreezer]

Because VisceraEyes outed first any other power role are hesitant to reveal themself because that would but them under heavy suspicion.

If that's happening, they're playing wrong and should claim immediately.

[Z7-852]

In current situation I would agree. But can somebody now explain why VisceraEyes claimed?

[GuyInFreezer]

I think some sort of "let's massclaim!" happened.

[Z7-852]

That (#2087) doesn't answer my question.

VisceraEyes first comes up with the idea (#1980) of mass claims because he started to become paranoid about how easily people were accepting goodmornings claim. He wanted more data but there really wasn't much that VisceraEyes could get if he is a doctor. Only thing that this could yield is if third person would claim power role and we would have limited suspects but that wasn't the case. And chance for this was relatively low in my opinion. The logic (#1983) was that if scum would claim later in the game they would be lynched. This might be true but on the other hand is it worth of outing a doctor. We just gave all the hidden information to scums on silver plate.

Just one curios fact is that claims (#1994) that VisceraEyes did was written on green when original private message should be (#2) written on cyan. Just a small detail but still.

[Z7-852]

In this situation player with power role should have forced a scum to fake-claim by pushing them to L-1 or similar situation. Or at least claim last yourself. Because since two players have claimed a power role scum would never claim one for themself.

[GuyInFreezer]

You asked why VE claimed. I think mine answered perfectly, unless you were looking for reason behind the "let's massclaim"

[GuyInFreezer]

Assuming that both PR claims are true, now we know scums are in between VT claims, which is a lot of info.

Since it was a PR who suggested such idea, I think it makes sense.

[Mac]

It's actually a pretty interesting point about the claim being in the wrong colour.

[goodmorning]

Which is why you completely ignored it when I said it in 2027, of course.

[Mac]

Well you didn't actually say what was wrong with it and I hadn't realised until Z pointed to post 2.

[fferyllt]

I noticed. green is the universal town color, though. I did check the role pms Tracey posted at the top of the thread and noticed the color, but I don't think it's odd that VE used green. I have never gone back to my own role PM to check the color before posting in a mass claim.

[goodmorning]

I noticed it in mine and remembered because it's unusual, and I'm in 6 games right now. He's in one.

He's still my strongest townread and I still believe the claim, I'm just saying it's interesting.

[VisceraEyes]

Welp! Let's lynch Mac!

[Z7-852]

GuyInFreeze is making too big of a assumption (#2091) for me to just bite down. Yes we can say that the scums are between VT claims but only if we assume that both claims are true. That is a big if. We have no way of verifying these claims without lynching the players and that's not the best idea. There is large probability that one of them is a real power role (just because there were no other claims) but about 15% chance that both claims are true. And again there was no way to verify that this was a power roles idea. There is just too many variables for this to be worth of revealing a doctor.

[fferyllt]

How do you figure a 15% chance of both claims being true? There's a 50% chance that there are two PRs in any game.