NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Desperado]

I was actually wondering why nero is not talking about one of his utility craps.. Thanks.. but i have no interest being your PL target today.

I wasn't suggesting that we lynch you. I was just saying that if we did then you'd be a utility a lynch.

Though if Angel does flip scum I'd be very very tempted to lynch B&TB for lukewarmly calling me scum and might be a chainsaw.

jesus christ nero,

(1)indies are not scum.

you were

(2)reading as an indie at the time fucking get over it.

(3)on my homesite we treat indies

differently

@ arc - what are you talking about, the last few posts were by majiffy

1) Yes they are.
2) This is not an answer to the question "How was I reading as Independent?"
3) This is Mafiascum, not wherever you come from. Justifying your bad play with "that's how we play on (insert other site)" is not likely to be effective.

1) no aren't
2) he didn't ask
3) my approach to indies will still probably be the same regardless of what site I am on. I try to work with indies if they have a town compatible win condition
4) fuck off

In this context, where the only third party is a Serial Killer, then indies are scum. Forget what you think you know because there is no such thing as a town friendly indy in this game.

"He didn't ask" are you serious?

But what's Indie supposed to mean?

Tell me why do I read as independent as opposed to scum? Can't hunt your own team?

So Mollie, why did you call me a 3rd party?

ok...I'm still not getting it....why 3rd pary instead of teamscum?

Your 3rd point is mindboggling. You're going to approach 3rd parties the same way you always have, and work with them if they have a town compatible win condition, when that

literally isn't possible?

There are no town friendly 3rd parties in this game. Do I need to put this in its own post or what?

Finally, what's with the hostility?

[Bacde]

As the day drags on, Oversoul shifts out of the group's focus. Slowly but surely, Bacde spearheads a new angle, attacking one strong advocate of lynching Oversoul, Nachomamma8.

sheesh make my chainsaw more obvious please

[Bulbazak]

Misrep Tally: 1

I never said it was on Page 6; as can be evidenced from my other posts, this meant I had REACHED Page 6.

Then that would make it a misunderstanding instead of a misrep. Misrep's are purposeful. Misunderstandings are not. Besides, it being on page 6 was not the main focus of that point, which would make this a strawman.

Second, Majiffy is one of those players that NEVER buddies, mostly because of the type of player he is. I would have expected HD, as a more prominent player, to be familiar enough with Majiffy's meta to know that the buddying accusation is absurd.

Misrep Tally: 2

If Majiffy never buddies, EVER, explain to me how I was able to point out buddying spots in Post 288.

I addressed post #288 further in my case. Your reasoning is crappy and fictitious.

But Bulba

, you might say.

What if HD has never played with Majiffy before, and therefore, is not...

And no, agreeing with you is not a basis and not necessarily town motivated, and

I know you're a better player than that.

Nevermind. Continue with your case...

Misrep Tally: 3

In order for this to even be valid, I'd have to be in games where Majiffy and Thor were in a game

together

. This happened twice, and in both of them Majiffy was scum. (Thor was town in both but got culted in one)

This section belongs with the previous quote, as they are part of the same point. I was silencing the notion that you were not familiar with Majiffy's play, which you have admitted that you are. Again, from reading what I have of Majiffy's meta, I find the whole concept of him buddying patently absurd, especially when there is no evidence of it. Now if you had provided evidence and said that it reminds you of the time you played with Majiffy-scum and Thor-town, then you might have a point. Instead you just threw out the idea that Majiffy was buddying Thor, and then sat back and hoped people would latch onto it.

You must not think very highly of Thor to be saying this like this.

Obvious sucking up to Thor since this was a completely useless comment unrelated to rofl's that he was responding to.

Yeah, you might have a point. I mean if it's unrelated to Rofl's brilliant...

I don't disagree with that.

Why is Cephrir town, I don't see it. He appears to be playing up a concept that makes little sense, while accusing me of the same, combining hypocrisy and also skeevy apparent intent in vote placement.
I want him dead.
What am I missing?

you're already blinded by beautyandthebeast trying to make you their pet townie

Actually, nevermind.

That post is both insulting to Thor and B&B. No wonder they made that comment. Not buddying.

Misrep Tally: 4

There is no insult in said post. Roflcopter makes an observation that B&TB is buddying with Thor. This is Mafia 101, not Preschool.

Would you also like to explain why Thor never expressed that he was insulted by this statement,

but in fact said it was entirely possible that B&TB WAS buddying him

?

First, that post is more about Thor being blindly led around by Majiffy, not about Majiffy buddying. This, in turn, makes Thor look inept, which he is not. Second, Thor didn't pay it any attention whatsoever, and in fact, continued to pressure Rofl and ask him why he was ignoring Thor's question.

Besides, if I was scum, I'd just kill him when it's opportune like I did last time I played scum against him. And I consider what you said an insult; you disputed his competency with that comment.

*snip*

If both parties of the Flowchart are voting it, you know it's probably scum.

More subtle, but still there, especially with that cute little white knight motivation of "Oh you insulted Thor how DARE you! RAWRGLEBARGLE"

Wow. That looks really bad.

Let's go back and look at the original:

though I do admit that I can see the reason behind the Cephir vote what I don't get though, is the Thor wagon.

Thor wagon is probably just a half-assed attempt at a pressure wagon. I'm not sold on OS either. You should vote Cephrir. If both parties of the Flowchart are voting it, you know it's probably scum.

You mean the original point had nothing to do with Rofl or Thor? It was about B&B and Kitty's scumread on Cephrir? What can this mean?

Misrep Tally: 6

Yes, I'm counting that as two misreps.

Here's why; it completely ignores the first part of my post (the one that quotes "And I consider what you said an insult; you disputed his competency with that comment.") which is fairly obviously what I was referring to, and uses the OTHER part of the post ("If both parties of the Flowchart are voting it, you know it's probably scum.") which is unrelated to said point, to act as if I had misrepped B&TB.

First, Rofl DID insult Thor's competency. Therefore, it is not buddying or white knighting. Second, you show great ability to trim off the parts of a quote you don't need. Therefore, if you were not using the end of that quote to imply what you were saying, you would have gotten rid of it. Yet you didn't, which tells me that you were trying to draw a connection between the 2 ends of the post, one which does not exist btw.

Inconsistency ho!

1

Firstly, leaving out the word mostly is not a strawman of any sort and saying so is pretty contrived, so you can kindly shut the fuck up.
Secondly, one post says your reads are largely based on whether people agree with you or not, but now only 2 are based on that concept.
Which is it?

1) If mostly, then your argument holds no water. Argument only stands if only/all, not mostly.
2) Follow the quotes. It was only

ever

about only two reads. Slandaar and AA9.

2

1) ...no, it still applies. If your reads are even mostly based on who agrees with you or not, they still are horrible. It's like saying 1 or 2 good reads makes up for 10 bad reads, it makes no sense.
2) Provably incorrect

3

:

I realize you didn't ask me but I for one would like to hear what Slandaar and AA9 have done that makes them such shining beacons of towniness that they don't even get (weak)'s

5

.

As far as I can tell, it looks like your list is based entirely on whether or not people agree with you.

4

It's largely based on whether or not people agree with me, yes.

Because I am town. Ergo if you agree with me, you're likely town.

So yes, you saying your list was largely based on whether or not people agreed with you was in response to Cephrir saying the same. Only the second half of said post talked about Slandaar and AA9 specifically.

~

HD calls this an inconsistency and seeks to prove it with bolded phrase. Ignores the sentence before it asking about the 2 reads specifically.

Misrep Tally: 7 (Hey guys, we're up to 7 misreps IN ONE POST. If you aren't voting Bulbazak yet, you now have some 'splainin' to do.)

The word "it" fairly obviously refers to the list, so B&TB is

clearly responding to the sentence I bolded.

The second part of the post

clearly referred to the point made about his AA9 and Slandaar reads.

IMPORTANT: THE WORD "IT" IS SINGULAR AND CANNOT MEAN "2 SPECIFIC TOWN READS I HAVE".

This is 1st grade reading comprehension folks.

Okay, I was hoping that people could read, but I'm going to have to spell it out for you:
[

1

] Om calls Majiffy saying #322 was referring only to 2 reads an inconsistancy.
[

2

] Majiffy reaffirms this.
[

3

] Om says "provably incorrect", which means he's going to disprove it without a shadow of a doubt.
[

4

] He bolds a line from the text to prove that Majiffy's statement was universal.
[

5

] He ignores the line before it, where Cephrir is specifically asking about AA9 and Slandaar.

-snip-

So by my count, in this post, you've declared 3 scumreads, one of which is "scummy as hell", another of which deserves an FoS. Where's your vote?

Went back to look at Kitty's post. She doesn't outright declare ANY reads, instead only asking questions or clarifications from 3 people. She does call Cephrir scummy because of some recent posts, but she FoS's him for it. Where did you learn to read?

Misrep Tally: 10

Misreps Amethyst Kitty

2 times

AND myself. That counts as 3 misreps.

And just to prove it...

@Fenix:

So what did you learn after catching up? Because voting him without giving reasons or thoughts is quite -

well scummy as hell.

Then you call out Nero for doing the same thing. >.>

Scummy as hell.

Kitty asked Eddie what he had learned, and said that voting someone without reasonings is scummy. She never called Eddie scum.

@B&B:

Mollie answer my question or else I will have to go extreme measures. (You do not want this)

Strongly implied scumread.

Actually, Kitty had B&B as a townread. She was just very angry that they had not answered her yet.

I'm not liking this whole; "If I'm correct then Nero was silenced."

The whole PR or even fishing for information is scummy as hell.

So

FoS: Cephir.

SCUMREAD THAT DESERVED AN FOS.

So that's three scumreads, dawg.

She does call Cephrir scummy because of some recent posts, but she FoS's him for it.

Where did I ever say that I disagreed with you. That post was just not about giving scumreads, it was about obtaining clarification. You tried to turn it into the opposite in an effort to paint Kitty as scummy.

Leaning scum, because I don't think you're that stupid.

Yes because calling someone out on doing something scummy is definitely stupid and scummy.
Mmm hmm.

Nice strawman. I called you scum, because I don't believe you to be stupid. The 2 were never connected.

Misrep Tally: 12

Calls on word semantics to call this a strawman; counting this as 2.

You called the action scummy or stupid. This therefore implies I am scummy or stupid. You saying that calling it scummy or stupid isn't a connection is fucking ridiculous.

Yes, I originally said that you were either scummy or stupid. You turned that around to be me calling you scummy AND stupid, which was not what I said at all. I called you out on it, and you say I'm misrepping you, saying you said "scummy or stupid", which is not the case.

Look. A useless post.

Is there any way you can actually make a decent attack on our slot at all this game?
I mean seriously if you want to attack a post like that you might as well attack anybody declaring V/LA in the future.
Also some of your posts are useless too bby

Deflection.

Misrep Tally: 13

Om points out something legitimately scummy about Bulbazak, Bulb deflects it by calling it a deflection. (Ironic, right?)

I already covered this post here.

Second, the difference between someone declaring V/LA and your post is that you essentially said "I can't talk to HD. Not going to say anything else.". There was no point in saying any of this, as you could just as easily have messaged HD via PM. This was posting for posting's sake.

I don't even know how you managed to get 'Not going to say anything' from 'We might not be on the same page for at least a day'. At least get your facts right.

More deflection via semantics.

Misrep Tally: 14

Even more fucking ironic considering

Bulbazak is the one resorting to semantics here.

Covered this post here.

Fucking lol. Please, tell me why we're even scum in the first place. Your arguments aren't even scumtells.
Useless posting isn't a scummy thing unless it's done repeatedly (and I've only been in this game for a day). Informing people about things like activity and potential dissonance isn't a scummy thing either, it's just being fucking informative. Attacking someone who is easily perceived as anti-town doesn't even say why the fuck we're scum. If someone is perceived as anti-town, you'd vote them, otherwise you won't get anywhere. Just because they have a history of looking anti-town doesn't mean they aren't scum. Your chainsaw defense of B&B is meta-related without any evidence to support your statements. Not to mention that you've tried to discredit us multiple times too....

~Pertayter

Flailing.

Misrep Tally: 15

Another deflection of his scumminess being called out.

*Sigh* I was hoping this one would be obvious enough that I wouldn't have to break it up piece by piece and spoon feed it to you, but I guess not. I'll cover this one in its own post after this, as this response is long enough already.

Also I'd kinda like to know why I'm definitely scum compared to OS when:
According to you, I'm scum because: Useless posting and attacking someone you think is town for meta reasons.
According to you, OS is scum because: Bad knee-jerk reaction to RVS vote, backpedaling, contradicting claims, suspicions on trying to use claim to gain townie status and he hasn't said very much at all.
(Note: I don't exactly support the OS wagon right now (nor do I entirely oppose it), this is just my interpretation of his reasons for suspecting either of us)

Like seriously wtf? If you're going to attack OS for a bad knee-jerk reaction to a vote then I'm pretty much going to do the same for you, only in your case there wasn't even a vote before you started reacting terribly (as evidenced by your P-EDIT).

~Pertayter

Explained why this was bad. Tries to deflect attention off them and onto OS, who they have repeatedly called town.

Misrep Tally: 16

Calls this a deflection of attention to OS when Om

specifically says

he isn't particularly interested in the OS wagon. He's also calling this a deflection when Om is clearly using OS as an example of Bulbazak being hypocritical and NOT as wanting to wagon OS.

You (or your partner in this case) were trying to deflect attention away from your hydra by saying that I have no reason to attack you over OS, who I had already built a case on. This is essentially saying that I should look at the more scummy slot rather than your slot, which I pointed out at the time. It's essentially, "I'm not scummy. They're scummier than I am!".

and outright lying.

Misrep Tally: 20

This deserves special mention.

Nowhere in Bulbazak's case does he state that we are outright lying about anything.

This counts as two since he misrepped us AND his own case.[/spoiler]

I never outright stated it, but I did imply it. You completely mangling quotes to get them to say what you wanted is not a simple misrep, as it is not seeking to simply twist what is being said, but instead it is a complete fabrication. What you did with #288 was especially noteworthy and could not have come from town. You then further lied in your response, the most noteworthy example being your play on semantics over the phrase "scum or stupid" in which you originally said the opposite as an attempt to strawman.

[AngryPidgeon]

Vc

<<< Lazy-ass co-mod, making me do all the work... >>>

Seventeenth Votecount

:

(

AKA, the "Read mah flava!" votecount

)

Nachomamma8 - 4 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Amethyst Kitty)

Red Ryu - 3 (Oversoul, Thor665, Baby Spice)

Oversoul - 2 (Nachomamma8, CrashTextDummie)
BeautyAndTheBeast - 2 (Cephrir, EddieFenix)
Bulbazak - 2 (Om the Destroyer, fuzzybutternut)
Cephrir - 1 (BeautyAndTheBeast)
ArcAngel9 - 1 (DLG)
Om the Destroyer - 1 (Bulbazak)

Not Voting - 8 (Mac, Syryana, Desperado, Slandaar, Seanald, ActionDan, Rondar, ArcAngel9)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

Deadline is on Monday, May 27th, @ 11:30 AM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-27 11:31:59).

Spoiler: changes from last official votecount

Nachomamma8 - 4 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Amethyst Kitty)
Oversoul - 2 (Nachomamma8, CrashTextDummie)
BeautyAndTheBeast - 2 (Cephrir, EddieFenix)
Cephrir - 1 (

fuzzybutternut

, BeautyAndTheBeast)
Red Ryu - 3 (Oversoul, Thor665,

Baby Spice

)
ArcAngel9 - 1 (DLG)
Bulbazak - 2 (Om the Destroyer,

fuzzybutternut

)
Om the Destroyer - 1 (Bulbazak)

Not Voting - 8 (Mac, Syryana, Desperado,

Baby Spice

, Slandaar, Seanald, ActionDan, Rondar, ArcAngel9)

Spoiler: Player Vote History

Mac:
CrashTextDummie: Oversoul
Cephrir: Oversoul->BeautyAndTheBeast
Nachomamma8: Oversoul
DLG: ArcAngel9
Nero Cain: Oversoul->EddieFenix->Oversoul->Nachomamma8
Bacde: Nachomamma8->BeautyAndTheBeast->EddieFenix->Nachomamma8
EddieFenix: BeautyAndTheBeast
Bulbazak: Oversoul->Om the Destroyer
Thor665: Red Ryu
Red Ryu: Nachomamma8
Syryana:
Desperado:
Baby Spice: Red Ryu
Slandaar:
Oversoul: Red Ryu
Seanald:
ActionDan:
fuzzybutternut: Oversoul->Cephrir->Bulbazak
Rondar:
Amethyst Kitty: Nachomamma8
BeautyAndTheBeast: Cephrir->Nachomamma8->Unvote->Cephrir
Om the Destroyer: Red Ryu->BeautyAndTheBeast->Bulbazak
ArcAngel9:

Spoiler: Voting History

On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 12:43p,

Oversoul

votes

Red Ryu

in post 202.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 12:47p,

Nachomamma8

votes

Oversoul

in post 206.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 01:08p,

CrashTextDummie

votes

Oversoul

in post 211.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 01:32p,

Nero Cain

votes

Oversoul

in post 218.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 01:37p,

Cephrir

votes

Oversoul

in post 219.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 02:45p,

Bulbazak

votes

Oversoul

in post 237.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 02:56p,

Om the Destroyer

votes

Red Ryu

in post 250.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 04:58p,

BeautyAndTheBeast

votes

Cephrir

in post 301.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 05:38p,

Om the Destroyer

unvotes

Red Ryu

and votes

BeautyAndTheBeast

in post 323.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 05:42p,

Cephrir

unvotes

Oversoul

and votes

BeautyAndTheBeast

in post 327.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 07:04p,

fuzzybutternut

votes

Oversoul

in post 361.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 07:42p,

Bacde

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 388.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 08:14p,

Bacde

votes

BeautyAndTheBeast

in post 406.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 08:36p,

fuzzybutternut

votes

Cephrir

in post 414.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 08:43p,

EddieFenix

votes

BeautyAndTheBeast

in post 415.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 08:58p,

Nero Cain

votes

EddieFenix

in post 418.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 09:08p,

Red Ryu

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 423.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 09:13p,

Bacde

votes

EddieFenix

in post 427.
On Mon, May 5/06/13 @ 09:55p,

Nero Cain

votes

Oversoul

in post 564.
On Tue, May 5/07/13 @ 09:23a,

DLG

votes

ArcAngel9

in post 494.
On Tue, May 5/07/13 @ 06:14p,

Bacde

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 587.
On Tue, May 5/07/13 @ 08:41p,

Thor665

votes

Red Ryu

in post 600.
On Tue, May 5/07/13 @ 09:12p,

Nero Cain

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 614.
On Tue, May 5/07/13 @ 09:26p,

BeautyAndTheBeast

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 620.
On Tue, May 5/07/13 @ 09:43p,

Amethyst Kitty

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 626.
On Tue, May 5/07/13 @ 10:19p,

BeautyAndTheBeast

unvotes

Nachomamma8

in post 631.
On Tue, May 5/07/13 @ 11:09p,

BeautyAndTheBeast

votes

Cephrir

in post 637.
On Wed, May 5/08/13 @ 00:46a,

Om the Destroyer

votes

Bulbazak

in post 654.
On Wed, May 5/08/13 @ 00:58a,

Bulbazak

votes

Om the destroyer

in post 657.
On Wed, May 5/08/13 @ 04:56p,

fuzzybutternut

votes

Bulbazak

in post 734.
On Wed, May 5/08/13 @ 05:57p,

Baby Spice

votes

Red Ryu

in post 749.

[Red Ryu]

People should put more votes on Nacho.

[Nero Cain]

dear nero,

stop being a colossal douchebag and focus on the game cos otherwise you are putting on the hypocritical tighty whities cos what you are doing is anti-town right now if you are indeed town which I am leaning on

for the love anything holy, leave me the fuck alone

Except what I was asking about was completely game relevant. There was no need for you to get annoyingly self righteous and act like a little kid.

I don't care if you are town, I'm still gonna fucking shoot you.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

I was actually wondering why nero is not talking about one of his utility craps.. Thanks.. but i have no interest being your PL target today.

I wasn't suggesting that we lynch you. I was just saying that if we did then you'd be a utility a lynch.

Though if Angel does flip scum I'd be very very tempted to lynch B&TB for lukewarmly calling me scum and might be a chainsaw.

jesus christ nero,

(1)indies are not scum.

you were

(2)reading as an indie at the time fucking get over it.

(3)on my homesite we treat indies

differently

@ arc - what are you talking about, the last few posts were by majiffy

1) Yes they are.
2) This is not an answer to the question "How was I reading as Independent?"
3) This is Mafiascum, not wherever you come from. Justifying your bad play with "that's how we play on (insert other site)" is not likely to be effective.

1) no aren't
2) he didn't ask
3) my approach to indies will still probably be the same regardless of what site I am on. I try to work with indies if they have a town compatible win condition
4) fuck off

In this context, where the only third party is a Serial Killer, then indies are scum. Forget what you think you know because there is no such thing as a town friendly indy in this game.

"He didn't ask" are you serious?

But what's Indie supposed to mean?

Tell me why do I read as independent as opposed to scum? Can't hunt your own team?

So Mollie, why did you call me a 3rd party?

ok...I'm still not getting it....why 3rd pary instead of teamscum?

Your 3rd point is mindboggling. You're going to approach 3rd parties the same way you always have, and work with them if they have a town compatible win condition, when that

literally isn't possible?

There are no town friendly 3rd parties in this game. Do I need to put this in its own post or what?

Finally, what's with the hostility?

I am not getting how you are immediately discounting indies, the large game list for accepted roles isn't super clear.

but idc. nero was throwing me off a bit and I am still unsure on him even though it is typical town for him to be an ass to me

[Nero Cain]

BTW guys, OM is a total 3rd party

[Bulbazak]

Fucking lol. Please, tell me why we're even scum in the first place. Your arguments aren't even scumtells.

Trying to deflect attention away from him. Also tries to discredit me, even though I had already caught him deflecting and posting complete fluff.

Useless posting isn't a scummy thing unless it's done repeatedly (and I've only been in this game for a day).

Falling back on the excuse he previously set up. Also, saying that you've been playing for only a game is not a good excuse when the game is still in its infancy.

Informing people about things like activity and potential dissonance isn't a scummy thing either, it's just being fucking informative.

But your post could have been addressed in other ways, as I pointed out. It was essentially a way to look active without being active.

Attacking someone who is easily perceived as anti-town doesn't even say why the fuck we're scum. If someone is perceived as anti-town, you'd vote them, otherwise you won't get anywhere.

Because scum like easy mislynches, and players with playstyles that are perceived as anti-town are easy lynches.

Just because they have a history of looking anti-town doesn't mean they aren't scum.

I believe this is Appeal to Probability.

Your chainsaw defense of B&B is meta-related without any evidence to support your statements.

I had plenty of evidence to support my statement. This is an Argument from Repetition, hoping that if he says that I have nothing enough times, people may actually believe it.

Not to mention that you've tried to discredit us multiple times too....

And then deflecting attention off of him to me. Essentially the equivalent of flinging poo.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

dear nero,

stop being a colossal douchebag and focus on the game cos otherwise you are putting on the hypocritical tighty whities cos what you are doing is anti-town right now if you are indeed town which I am leaning on

for the love anything holy, leave me the fuck alone

Except what I was asking about was completely game relevant. There was no need for you to get annoyingly self righteous and act like a little kid.

I don't care if you are town, I'm still gonna fucking shoot you.

and this is why you read as indie. you don't care if you fuck over town

I would think scum would be less blatant about but hai there is always a lesson to be learned

[Om the Destroyer]

Misrep Tally: 1

I never said it was on Page 6; as can be evidenced from my other posts, this meant I had REACHED Page 6.

Then that would make it a misunderstanding instead of a misrep. Misrep's are purposeful. Misunderstandings are not. Besides, it being on page 6 was not the main focus of that point, which would make this a strawman.

>implying this could be anything but purposeful

You did this for

the entire fucking case.

There is

no conceivable way

it could be an accident. And yes,

this was your entire point.

You literally said "Oh, Majiffy had no interactions with Thor on Page 6, HD must be lying!"

Second, Majiffy is one of those players that NEVER buddies, mostly because of the type of player he is. I would have expected HD, as a more prominent player, to be familiar enough with Majiffy's meta to know that the buddying accusation is absurd.

Misrep Tally: 2

If Majiffy never buddies, EVER, explain to me how I was able to point out buddying spots in Post 288.

I addressed post #288 further in my case. Your reasoning is crappy and fictitious.

It isn't, though. I addressed your reasons.

But Bulba

, you might say.

What if HD has never played with Majiffy before, and therefore, is not...

And no, agreeing with you is not a basis and not necessarily town motivated, and

I know you're a better player than that.

Nevermind. Continue with your case...

Misrep Tally: 3

In order for this to even be valid, I'd have to be in games where Majiffy and Thor were in a game

together

. This happened twice, and in both of them Majiffy was scum. (Thor was town in both but got culted in one)

This section belongs with the previous quote, as they are part of the same point. I was silencing the notion that you were not familiar with Majiffy's play, which you have admitted that you are. Again, from reading what I have of Majiffy's meta, I find the whole concept of him buddying patently absurd, especially when there is no evidence of it. Now if you had provided evidence and said that it reminds you of the time you played with Majiffy-scum and Thor-town, then you might have a point. Instead you just threw out the idea that Majiffy was buddying Thor, and then sat back and hoped people would latch onto it.

EXCEPT THERE IS EVIDENCE OF HIM BUDDYING

IN THIS VERY THREAD

"HD/Om threw it out there and sat back and hoped people would latch onto it." is a load of bullshit meant to paint us as scummy.

You must not think very highly of Thor to be saying this like this.

Obvious sucking up to Thor since this was a completely useless comment unrelated to rofl's that he was responding to.

Yeah, you might have a point. I mean if it's unrelated to Rofl's brilliant...

I don't disagree with that.

Why is Cephrir town, I don't see it. He appears to be playing up a concept that makes little sense, while accusing me of the same, combining hypocrisy and also skeevy apparent intent in vote placement.
I want him dead.
What am I missing?

you're already blinded by beautyandthebeast trying to make you their pet townie

Actually, nevermind.

That post is both insulting to Thor and B&B. No wonder they made that comment. Not buddying.

Misrep Tally: 4

There is no insult in said post. Roflcopter makes an observation that B&TB is buddying with Thor. This is Mafia 101, not Preschool.

Would you also like to explain why Thor never expressed that he was insulted by this statement,

but in fact said it was entirely possible that B&TB WAS buddying him

?

First, that post is more about Thor being blindly led around by Majiffy, not about Majiffy buddying. This, in turn, makes Thor look inept, which he is not. Second, Thor didn't pay it any attention whatsoever, and in fact, continued to pressure Rofl and ask him why he was ignoring Thor's question.

You're attributing meanings to rofl's post that don't exist.

And yes, he DID ignore it, that's my point. If Thor didn't find it insulting, why should anyone else think it to be insulting and interfere? There's no real reason to do so!

Besides, if I was scum, I'd just kill him when it's opportune like I did last time I played scum against him. And I consider what you said an insult; you disputed his competency with that comment.

*snip*

If both parties of the Flowchart are voting it, you know it's probably scum.

More subtle, but still there, especially with that cute little white knight motivation of "Oh you insulted Thor how DARE you! RAWRGLEBARGLE"

Wow. That looks really bad.

Let's go back and look at the original:

though I do admit that I can see the reason behind the Cephir vote what I don't get though, is the Thor wagon.

Thor wagon is probably just a half-assed attempt at a pressure wagon. I'm not sold on OS either. You should vote Cephrir. If both parties of the Flowchart are voting it, you know it's probably scum.

You mean the original point had nothing to do with Rofl or Thor? It was about B&B and Kitty's scumread on Cephrir? What can this mean?

Misrep Tally: 6

Yes, I'm counting that as two misreps.

Here's why; it completely ignores the first part of my post (the one that quotes "And I consider what you said an insult; you disputed his competency with that comment.") which is fairly obviously what I was referring to, and uses the OTHER part of the post ("If both parties of the Flowchart are voting it, you know it's probably scum.") which is unrelated to said point, to act as if I had misrepped B&TB.

First, Rofl DID insult Thor's competency. Therefore, it is not buddying or white knighting. Second, you show great ability to trim off the parts of a quote you don't need. Therefore, if you were not using the end of that quote to imply what you were saying, you would have gotten rid of it.

Yet you didn't, which tells me that you were trying to draw a connection between the 2 ends of the post, one which does not exist btw.

Yes it is white knighting, it's B&TB hard defending Thor from a supposed "attack".

@Bolded: Except I clearly wasn't? Like seriously, nothing about that quote suggests they are connected except they are both buddying.

You're trying to use semantics to misrep me, and that's really fucking annoying.

Inconsistency ho!

1

Firstly, leaving out the word mostly is not a strawman of any sort and saying so is pretty contrived, so you can kindly shut the fuck up.
Secondly, one post says your reads are largely based on whether people agree with you or not, but now only 2 are based on that concept.
Which is it?

1) If mostly, then your argument holds no water. Argument only stands if only/all, not mostly.
2) Follow the quotes. It was only

ever

about only two reads. Slandaar and AA9.

2

1) ...no, it still applies. If your reads are even mostly based on who agrees with you or not, they still are horrible. It's like saying 1 or 2 good reads makes up for 10 bad reads, it makes no sense.
2) Provably incorrect

3

:

I realize you didn't ask me but I for one would like to hear what Slandaar and AA9 have done that makes them such shining beacons of towniness that they don't even get (weak)'s

5

.

As far as I can tell, it looks like your list is based entirely on whether or not people agree with you.

4

It's largely based on whether or not people agree with me, yes.

Because I am town. Ergo if you agree with me, you're likely town.

So yes, you saying your list was largely based on whether or not people agreed with you was in response to Cephrir saying the same. Only the second half of said post talked about Slandaar and AA9 specifically.

~

HD calls this an inconsistency and seeks to prove it with bolded phrase. Ignores the sentence before it asking about the 2 reads specifically.

Misrep Tally: 7 (Hey guys, we're up to 7 misreps IN ONE POST. If you aren't voting Bulbazak yet, you now have some 'splainin' to do.)

The word "it" fairly obviously refers to the list, so B&TB is

clearly responding to the sentence I bolded.

The second part of the post

clearly referred to the point made about his AA9 and Slandaar reads.

IMPORTANT: THE WORD "IT" IS SINGULAR AND CANNOT MEAN "2 SPECIFIC TOWN READS I HAVE".

This is 1st grade reading comprehension folks.

Okay, I was hoping that people could read, but I'm going to have to spell it out for you:
[

1

] Om calls Majiffy saying #322 was referring only to 2 reads an inconsistancy.
[

2

] Majiffy reaffirms this.
[

3

] Om says "provably incorrect", which means he's going to disprove it without a shadow of a doubt.
[

4

] He bolds a line from the text to prove that Majiffy's statement was universal.
[

5

] He ignores the line before it, where Cephrir is specifically asking about AA9 and Slandaar.

Argumentum ad nausem doesn't change the fact that you're completely fucking wrong and that

I disproved your point by showing you exactly what Majiffy said

.

You completely ignored my response to this point in a continued effort to white knight Majiffy.

-snip-

So by my count, in this post, you've declared 3 scumreads, one of which is "scummy as hell", another of which deserves an FoS. Where's your vote?

Went back to look at Kitty's post. She doesn't outright declare ANY reads, instead only asking questions or clarifications from 3 people. She does call Cephrir scummy because of some recent posts, but she FoS's him for it. Where did you learn to read?

Misrep Tally: 10

Misreps Amethyst Kitty

2 times

AND myself. That counts as 3 misreps.

And just to prove it...

@Fenix:

So what did you learn after catching up? Because voting him without giving reasons or thoughts is quite -

well scummy as hell.

Then you call out Nero for doing the same thing. >.>

Scummy as hell.

Kitty asked Eddie what he had learned, and said that voting someone without reasonings is scummy. She never called Eddie scum.

Oh, well if you can play semantics...so can I.

She said "Because voting him without

giving

reasons or thoughts is quite - well scummy as hell."

Guess what he did? 3 guesses, first 2 don't count.

@B&B:

Mollie answer my question or else I will have to go extreme measures. (You do not want this)

Strongly implied scumread.

Actually, Kitty had B&B as a townread. She was just very angry that they had not answered her yet.

"Mollie/Majiffy

might

be town" is not a townread, hate to break it to you. Post 334 is also a clear expression of something Mala (?) finds suspicious.

I'm not liking this whole; "If I'm correct then Nero was silenced."

The whole PR or even fishing for information is scummy as hell.

So

FoS: Cephir.

SCUMREAD THAT DESERVED AN FOS.

So that's three scumreads, dawg.

She does call Cephrir scummy because of some recent posts, but she FoS's him for it.

Where did I ever say that I disagreed with you.

That post was just not about giving scumreads, it was about obtaining clarification. You tried to turn it into the opposite in an effort to paint Kitty as scummy.

It's not painting them as scummy, it IS scummy.

@Bolded: I'm going to ignore this on the account that you'd have to be chronically stupid to actually believe that we couldn't be disagreeing on this post.

Leaning scum, because I don't think you're that stupid.

Yes because calling someone out on doing something scummy is definitely stupid and scummy.
Mmm hmm.

Nice strawman. I called you scum, because I don't believe you to be stupid. The 2 were never connected.

Misrep Tally: 12

Calls on word semantics to call this a strawman; counting this as 2.

You called the action scummy or stupid. This therefore implies I am scummy or stupid. You saying that calling it scummy or stupid isn't a connection is fucking ridiculous.

Yes, I originally said that you were either scummy or stupid. You turned that around to be me calling you scummy AND stupid, which was not what I said at all. I called you out on it, and you say I'm misrepping you, saying you said "scummy or stupid", which is not the case.

I didn't say I said scummy or stupid.
My point was that you're resorting to semantics by saying I said "and" instead of "or" to call me scummy as if I'm making some sort of false connection.

Look. A useless post.

Is there any way you can actually make a decent attack on our slot at all this game?
I mean seriously if you want to attack a post like that you might as well attack anybody declaring V/LA in the future.
Also some of your posts are useless too bby

Deflection.

Misrep Tally: 13

Om points out something legitimately scummy about Bulbazak, Bulb deflects it by calling it a deflection. (Ironic, right?)

I already covered this post here.

There's no deflection in the post, you just call it a deflection. He points out something actually scummy in that you've soft-pushed our slot without any real basis to push it on and you just say "LOLNOPE IT'S A DEFLECTION VOTE OM".

Second, the difference between someone declaring V/LA and your post is that you essentially said "I can't talk to HD. Not going to say anything else.". There was no point in saying any of this, as you could just as easily have messaged HD via PM. This was posting for posting's sake.

I don't even know how you managed to get 'Not going to say anything' from 'We might not be on the same page for at least a day'. At least get your facts right.

More deflection via semantics.

Misrep Tally: 14

Even more fucking ironic considering

Bulbazak is the one resorting to semantics here.

Covered this post here.

Your major point is that "Oh he's setting himself up to active lurk" and he's saying "Once I get in touch with HD tomorrow I'm going to start contributing".

He's refuting your point and you're calling it semantics.

Seriously, do I need to say anything more on that? Because it's pretty fucking obvious you're scum.

Fucking lol. Please, tell me why we're even scum in the first place. Your arguments aren't even scumtells.
Useless posting isn't a scummy thing unless it's done repeatedly (and I've only been in this game for a day). Informing people about things like activity and potential dissonance isn't a scummy thing either, it's just being fucking informative. Attacking someone who is easily perceived as anti-town doesn't even say why the fuck we're scum. If someone is perceived as anti-town, you'd vote them, otherwise you won't get anywhere. Just because they have a history of looking anti-town doesn't mean they aren't scum. Your chainsaw defense of B&B is meta-related without any evidence to support your statements. Not to mention that you've tried to discredit us multiple times too....

~Pertayter

Flailing.

Misrep Tally: 15

Another deflection of his scumminess being called out.

*Sigh* I was hoping this one would be obvious enough that I wouldn't have to break it up piece by piece and spoon feed it to you, but I guess not. I'll cover this one in its own post after this, as this response is long enough already.

Um, it isn't a flail; he's saying your attack has no base (it doesn't), your meta-related defense of B&TB is shit (it is), and backhanded discredits do exist in your posts, despite your denial of them.

Also I'd kinda like to know why I'm definitely scum compared to OS when:

According to you, I'm scum because: Useless posting and attacking someone you think is town for meta reasons.
According to you, OS is scum because: Bad knee-jerk reaction to RVS vote, backpedaling, contradicting claims, suspicions on trying to use claim to gain townie status and he hasn't said very much at all.
(Note: I don't exactly support the OS wagon right now (nor do I entirely oppose it), this is just my interpretation of his reasons for suspecting either of us)

Like seriously wtf? If you're going to attack OS for a bad knee-jerk reaction to a vote then I'm pretty much going to do the same for you, only in your case there wasn't even a vote before you started reacting terribly (as evidenced by your P-EDIT).

~Pertayter

Explained why this was bad. Tries to deflect attention off them and onto OS, who they have repeatedly called town.

Misrep Tally: 16

Calls this a deflection of attention to OS when Om

specifically says

he isn't particularly interested in the OS wagon. He's also calling this a deflection when Om is clearly using OS as an example of Bulbazak being hypocritical and NOT as wanting to wagon OS.

You (or your partner in this case) were trying to deflect attention away from your hydra by saying that I have no reason to attack you over OS, who I had already built a case on. This is essentially saying that I should look at the more scummy slot rather than your slot, which I pointed out at the time. It's essentially, "I'm not scummy. They're scummier than I am!".

The italicized (and parts after it) says "Your case on us sucks, why the hell are you voting us over Oversoul, the person you've been pushing on a stronger case?" Which actually makes sense,

considering your case on us sucks.

(Although I personally think OS is a bad example since the case on him is bad too)

The bolded says

he's basically attacking you for the same reasons you're attacking OS

. You still haven't even made a note of that, instead focusing on painting the first part as scummy.

and outright lying.

Misrep Tally: 20

This deserves special mention.

Nowhere in Bulbazak's case does he state that we are outright lying about anything.

This counts as two since he misrepped us AND his own case.[/spoiler]

I never outright stated it, but I did imply it. You completely mangling quotes to get them to say what you wanted is not a simple misrep, as it is not seeking to simply twist what is being said, but instead it is a complete fabrication. What you did with #288 was especially noteworthy and could not have come from town. You then further lied in your response,

the most noteworthy example being your play on semantics over the phrase "scum or stupid" in which you originally said the opposite as an attempt to strawman.

See? You're making up shit as you go.

"#288 cannot come from town" is a complete fabrication because a) you know it can because you're scum and I'm town and b) there isn't anything actually scummy about it!

The bolded is hilarious considering YOU ARE THE ONE USING SEMANTICS TO CALL ME SCUM WITH THIS POINT.

[DLG]

@ Bulbazak

To answer your question, in 492, I was talking to Red Ryu about why I believed voting Nachomamma8 was wrong. Based on several factors, I thought Nachomamma8 was most likely Town motivated in his push.

In 493, I was digging deeper into Nachomamma8's thoughts about Oversoul. I understood the surface reasons behind calling Oversoul out for the claim, but I disagreed with the conclusion that Oversoul was likely scum. So, I was interested in how Nachomamma8 perceived the motivation behind Oversoul making that claim as scum.

I mean, just because I believe someone is likely acting from Town motivation doesn't mean I agree with their conclusion(s). And, just because I believe someone is likely acting from Town motivation, doesn't mean I'm right about them.

[DLG]

Lack of scumhunting? And what exactly you did so far other than this small litte post that says i am scum?
Out of 24 players you dont have reads on anyone else, neither you have any case on an on-going arguments, there is so much scummy ness flalling around, there are palyers who has hardly said anything, Players like Fuzzy is being jumping in every possible wagons, OS wagon is with full of opputunistis, Yet you get an isolated read on me out of everything else and voted with out asking for explanation? Seems like an easy move, If you wanted to know whats my town play or mafia play, its available on my wiki and the statistics in my signature or even you can follow my profile link for the game threads that i have palyed. You haven't seen my playstyle, nor completly analyzed my ISO on this game, nor reading the game, nor had any other cases ..and voted me right away???? OMMFG, who thought you to play like this? Your scummy buddies?

Welp, for fun, try reading this, then we can discuss whether I have any other reads on anyone else. Or, no opinions on things going on in the thread. Or, no commentary on the Oversoul wagon.

Get back to me when you're done reading.

And, I know, what was I thinking voting for someone who I believe is scummy? It's so scummy, really.

[DLG]

The above signifies taking active, meaningful action in response to something trying to stop a situation. You'll note that I did not do this; as soon as something came along that I perceived could push us out of RVS, I followed up on it. This is the exact

opposite

of perpetuating. It also answers your second question.

Now kindly fuck off.

So, I take it that you didn't find Thor665's Betegeuse tell on Oversoul something that could push us out of RVS? I'm curious about your Oversoul read. Do you have one?

And, for what it's worth, you're not nearly impressive enough to dismiss me. No matter your own over-inflated self-image.

Yes, buddy me, that will make me think you're town.

We appear to have very different definitions of buddying. Could you share yours and how it applies to how I developed my read on you? Or, failing that, could you explain why you're throwing mud at me?

My Cephrir push has nothing to do with his suspicions on my slot, so clearly you have no understanding of why I'm pushing Cephrir for you to call it weak.

Cephrir isn't town.

Yeah, this is kind of my fault for the way I put those thoughts together. I know that wasn't part of your case on Cephrir. My intent was to say that your case on him is weak. I also think it's wrong because I disagree with your conclusion about his alignment. Me saying his suspicions against you make sense from a Town point of view was related to me reading him as Town, not related to saying your case is weak.

I think the case is weak because the initial point about trying to prevent exiting RVS is o.k. as a starting point for many games. But, I truly don't think it's a real valid indicator of alignment. I also think it's weak because your accusation isn't really accurate.

Aw, look, a bad reaction test that ignores the current game state and a player who is functionally playing as neutral as a neutron.

Now I have three people I'm willing to lynch.

I like the overconfident/hyperaggressive town mindset usually but this statement is just ridiculous. No one even knows if the game has started yet.

Vote: Thor

I mean, it's pretty clear that taking the action of voting someone for making a ridiculous statement shows no interest in staying in RVS. It's a vote against another player's actions/words/behavior.

And, even if it wasn't crystal clear at this point, Cephrir only took exception to Thor665's position on someone only confirming during the confirmation stage. No objection to his pushing the Betelgeuse thing on Oversoul. No objection to pushing about the "bad reaction test that ignores the current game state".

So, really, I don't get how you even believe Cephrir's vote on Thor665 was some attempt to perpetuate RVS.

[DLG]

{Amethyst Kitty, Bacde, BeautyAndTheBeast, Cephrir, Nero Cain, Om the Destroyer} --> Players I have no interest in lynching.
{ArcAngel9, Bulbazak} --> Players I would instantly lynch given the chance.
{Desperado, Nachomamma8, Slandaar} --> Players I'm uncertain about.

Everyone else has either made no impression on me, or haven't posted.

The whole 3rd party/Indie thing threw me for a loop when I read through it. My Town read on BeautyAndTheBeast just about went out the window. With a little more explanation, I'm thinking it probably was a dust up over different meanings applied to the same general term.

My read on Nachomamma8 dropped away from Town through this, though. I mean, I don't at all get him calling Nero Cain's flare up a dumb point. That looked a significant amount like potentially Nachmamma8 subtly buddying pirate mollie in particular, and through that, the hydra read on him. I'm a little unsure about this point, but that was my initial reaction on reading that post.

So, anyway, I'd really like to see more votes on ArcAngel9 or Bulbazak. I really don't like what is coming across as Bulbazak white-knighting BeautyAndTheBeast.

[Desperado]

Vote: DLG

His early game had him in my townpile (#200 especially), but his series of posts starting at #490 and going straight through to #494 really pinged my scumdar. I'm going to quote them again, bold some interesting things, and then make my comments at the end.

around p5. "how", it was the way that rofl reacted to majiffy (didn't I already explain this?). the replace out is null, I don't think it is alignment indicative. rofl looked town to me cos of how he reacted not because he got all dramatic and went ahead and replaced out.

Alright, that makes sense. In particular, I was curious about your post 114. I was trying to figure out why you were extending the olive branch to roflcopter. It makes sense if you were already leaning Town on him.

Perpetuating?

I didn't see anything scummy, ergo I didn't act. When I did see something scummy, I did act. How is that in any form

perpetuating?

Consider yourself officially on my shitlist.

Yes,

perpetuating

. Your first 11 posts were all bullshit banter. That means you were keeping the pre-game stuff non-game related. Perpetuating it, even. The question was why you shifted gears when someone else changed the tenor of the conversation.

You didn't see anything scummy, fine. But, your posts weren't designed to find anything scummy, either.

So, again, I ask, why did you shift your style when someone else changed the game environment?

Why are you trying to superimpose scumminess onto my play? You'll note the parenthetical word - presumably - in the quote. From my POV, he was calling me scum for voting Cephrir.

Sure, I noted your use of the word presumably. I wasn't directly involved in the conversation, so it may have been easier for me to see the connections after the fact, but your interpretation struck me because you had the cause and effect reversed. Your later post 105 makes me believe you really were just confused, not intentionally misconstruing the chain of events.

All things considered, I think you're slot isn't scum. The answers both of your heads gave regarding potential scum motivation in your posts seem consistent with a Town mindset much more than a scum agenda.

Your Cephrir push is weak. His suspicions towards your slot make sense from a Town point-of-view. Couple that with the following:

Since not everyone in the game is tunneling me, you're gonna have to actually debunk my arguments rather than laugh at them. Or, just keep standing by yourself in a field yelling about how I'm scum. That's fine too.

This demonstrates a belief in the things he's saying and I can totally see where someone with a Town role PM would react this way to your cutesy derision.

And:

I'm gonna do my best to ignore you for a few pages, as I think I've made my position clear enough and I'm sick of arguing about exact wording and how arguments argued with arguments on arguments.

On Ryu: My initial reaction was agreement with HD (that Ryu had voted Thor arbitrarily for what he himself claimed was a dumbtell), but then I went back and read it and the posts after that one were better.

This reads significantly more like Town fed up with an argument that had spiralled way out of original context than it does like a scum retreating from a fight they feel they've lost. Plus, the double check on Red Ryu vs Thor665 seems to indicate someone who is interested in finding things out, not just casting aspersions where convenient.

tl;dr
BeautyAndTheBeast is likely town and needs to get over the push on someone else (Cephrir) who is likely Town.

Uh, DlG, when Mara gets back.. You will have an answer to 199 as we have some unsure people that we want to poke at.
Although, the first one was a joke. I'm not sure why you are taking it seriously.
___

The Mollie/Jiffy might be town. Mollie part feels town to me at the moment.

___

I'm not sure what to make of AA9 well the wagon on OS is fast and might be a QL. It's just off because I don't feel as if she's looking for scum.

AA who's your biggest scum read and your biggest town read?

Me missing the joke is probably attributable to tone deafness on my part. I'm not part of the clique, so the inside jokes may go over my head.

I'm still curious about how you can needle at the pirate mollie head of BeautyAndTheBeast for ignoring your question, and at the same time declare you intend to leave BeautyAndTheBeast alone in lieu of better targets.

I pretty much agree with you on

BeautyAndTheBeast being likely Town,

and agree with your assessment of ArcAngel9. Hey, since I'm Town, and we agree, you must be Town, too. Just ask Beast.

Do you have enough experience playing with ArcAngel9 to say whether this is unusual play for her?

Because, I sense she's more part of the group of players familiar to each other. I'd like to know if you think she's just coming across as scummy as a natural part of her playstyle/personality.

Being town does not equal doing the smart thing nor that they have the right idea.

Yeah, this is dated, and all, especially since I no longer believe you're scum. My original problem was that calling someone "dumb Town" is practically guaranteed to make that player less likely to want to be cooperative with you, and Town cohesion can be a powerful weapon. Making Town cohesion more difficult serves a scum agenda. Plus, by casting another player as dumb, you send a signal that their posts should be ignored. And, regardless of my personal assessment of someone's abilities/intelligence, if I think they're Town, I want their opinion heard, not ignored. I may not agree with them, and I'll discuss with them why, but shoving them aside seems contrary to working towards a Town win.

Om is saying some of the dumbest things known to man, their posts on B&B are atrocious.

Is this another "dumb Town" read? I can't really tell, although I don't believe that's what you meant. I would appreciate you explaining some of what you find atrocious.

I really don't think Nachomamma8 is very likely scum at this juncture.

Seems to me he's demonstrating a desire to make the game more difficult for scum through advocating the mass claim (my personal opinion is that early mass claims are functionally better for Town given that site meta so heavily discourages it, and scum get to hide behind "OMG SAVE THE PR'S", and scum aren't prepared for it. Forcing people to lock into a claim early takes away much of the ability of scum to craft a claim later when more is on the line. Well, plus, I derped a LYLO because of a fake claim that I believed and wouldn't have been possible to foresee that it would be beneficial if forced out early.). And, while Nachomamma8 hasn't really stressed this point, there was something significantly scummy about Oversoul's claim. That was the fact that he said he was planning to claim, but didn't when he made his first post. Then, after CrashtextDummie brought up the mass-claim, Oversoul took the easy "no way, man!" route, but then offererd his own claim up and said CrashTextDummie's idea had nothing to do with him claiming. So, Nachomamma8 pushing the Oversoul wagon seems to come from a Town motivated mind set, to me.

You got any kind of a read towards ArcAngel9?

Alright, so, the Oversoul wagon is reasonable, and I have no qualms with 3 of the 4 voters. Bulbazak is the odd man out, due to Slandaar's Post 479. There is strange dissonance in those two posts from Bulbazak.

Hey, also, Bulbazak demonstrates absolutely no conviction in the Oversoul wagon, he's just content to sit there and hide in the crowd. I don't detect any sense that he believes he's actually voting scum.

@Nachomamma8

Walk me through why you think Oversoul would throw out such a silly and useless claim as scum. I mean, I get the fact that the claim doesn't amount to anything worthwhile. Still, I can't quite imagine someone with a scum role PM reacting to the mass claim proposal by going, "No massclaim guys, but I'm gonna make a worthless fake claim". Seems like the scum response would be much more likely to just take the "pro-Town" line of "mass claim is baaaaaad, we've got to protect our PR's at all costs, no way I'm claiming anything!".

Also, why'd you have the early Town read on ArcAngel9, and is that still where you're at on her?

VOTE: ArcAngel9
I'm truly disturbed by the complete lack of scumhunting.

We should massclaim. I am not joking.

Raise of hands, everyone in favor.

are you crazy.. No claims plz!!!!!!!!!!



Mastin2, I don't have any issue with HD hydra.

This is the kind of reaction I expect to a proposed massclaim from scum. Belittle the idea, but take no initiative to figure out why someone is proposing such an idea.

Also, rather than any commentary about any of the content that developed pre-game, or up to that point, an aside to the mod that served no purpose.

^wow, that VCA is just mind blowing. Great job Mastin

This post, in particular, gave me scum feelings towards ArcAngel9. Absolutely no commentary on the game state, no attempts to figure anything out. Prefering to interact with the mod over interacting with the game and other players is not Town motivated.

Her later commentary that the Oversoul wagon is bad 'cuz it's soooo quick again betrays her lack of interest in figuring out anyone's alignment.

Yep, yep, this is scummy behavior from someone who got a scum role PM. Let's lynch her.

So to recap: DLG is really, really big on scumhunting. You can see him admonishing both Arc and B&TB for it. And yet, all his posts contain are townreads and surface level game commentary. "I really don't think Nacho is likely scum at this point," "B&TB is likely town pushing on Cephir, who is also likely town," etc. You chastize B&TB for not having any posts "designed to find anything scummy," but what are you doing? Commenting on things long after the fact and getting townreads on everyone involved? How is your behavior finding scum?

And then you vote Arc for the same thing (not scumhunting) and because her reason for not liking the OS wagon. Expecting something of others that you aren't doing yourself? Check. Misrepping AA9's opinion on the OS wagon to make it seem much more simplistic than it actually was? Check. Here's everything AA9 had to say:

I am not liking the quick OS wagon. Its bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's bad about it?

The speeed of it...
if he is scum, it not the end of the game.. there is a whole scum team that we need to find.. so Talk first and let people talk with eachother and lynch whe it is required. i hate quick lynches..they're just useless and doesnt' give any info.

What makes you think this is about to be a quicklynch? He only has like 5 votes.

i have been in those situations where 5 becomes 10 votes in no time.... so don't give me that logic. And I am only alerting so that this doesn't go that that phase and end terribly bad. I hate bad lynches.

So, now can you make talk more that pertains to game subject. ?

AA9, we're still 8 away from lynch, so it's not like we're going to be lynching Oversoul at the end of the day. I actually took the size of the wagon into account before I voted, and I felt I had adequate enough reason to do so, especially with the information gathered from d0 (I had a decent scumread on him then.). If the wagon starts reaching dangerous levels quickly, then yes, we need to take a step back and examine how and why, but for right now, we're still all right. If you have another reason for why this wagon is bad, other than speed, please feel free to speak up.

Exactly my point. As long as everyone understands that

The other thing that stuck out like a sore thumb regarding your AA9 vote: Why did you ask Amethyst Kitty if they had any experience with AA9 if you were just going to vote her at the end of your string of posts anyway? You asked specifically if AA9 naturally comes off as scummy which, if Kitty confirmed, presumably would weaken your scum read on her, but then you don't even given Kitty an opportunity to respond before voting.

Finally, with regards to the three bolded statements in #490: Your threshold for towntells is basically nonexistant. "He really believes what he's saying" does not make someone town, "being interested in finding things out" does not make someone town. They read like weak reasons used to justify something that you know to be true.

[Desperado]

EBWOP: Never had someone post 4 times while I was in the process of writing up a case on them. It can only be a good thing, I guess; either he'll have blown my read out of the water with his towniness, or he'll have made it even stronger by scumming it up. I'll let you know which one it is after I read them.

[Om the Destroyer]

Fucking lol. Please, tell me why we're even scum in the first place. Your arguments aren't even scumtells.

Trying to deflect attention away from him. Also tries to discredit me, even though I had already caught him deflecting and posting complete fluff.

What?
He literally just said what you're pointing out isn't scummy, Because it isn't. I'm completely amazed you can even call this a deflection, because this is a solid observation.

Useless posting isn't a scummy thing unless it's done repeatedly (and I've only been in this game for a day).

Falling back on the excuse he previously set up. Also, saying that you've been playing for only a game is not a good excuse when the game is still in its infancy.

See, you're making shit up as you go! You're acting like any of this is a scumtell and blowing it way out of proportion!

Informing people about things like activity and potential dissonance isn't a scummy thing either, it's just being fucking informative.

But your post could have been addressed in other ways, as I pointed out. It was essentially a way to look active without being active.

HE LITERALLY JUST SAID HE WAS GOING TO BE INACTIVE

HOW CAN YOU INTERPRET THAT AS AN EFFORT TO LOOK ACTIVE

Attacking someone who is easily perceived as anti-town doesn't even say why the fuck we're scum. If someone is perceived as anti-town, you'd vote them, otherwise you won't get anywhere.

Because scum like easy mislynches, and players with playstyles that are perceived as anti-town are easy lynches.

Yeah but you haven't even been able to explain your supposed townread on B&TB, so calling it an easy mislynch is ridiculous.

This is fucking white knighting at it's finest folks.

Just because they have a history of looking anti-town doesn't mean they aren't scum.

I believe this is Appeal to Probability.

What?

Words cannot express how bad this statement is. They can't.

Nothing about this appeals to the probability of getting a scum Role PM.

None if it.

It says that, just like everyone else, anti-town playstyle players have a chance of getting scum Role PMs.

This is a horrid misrep.

Your chainsaw defense of B&B is meta-related without any evidence to support your statements.

I had plenty of evidence to support my statement. This is an Argument from Repetition, hoping that if he says that I have nothing enough times, people may actually believe it.

Um, no, yours was the Argumentum Ad Nauseum. We refuted all your misreps, but you kept on screaming "OM IS SCUM B&TB IS TOWN RAWRGH".

Not to mention that you've tried to discredit us multiple times too....

And then deflecting attention off of him to me. Essentially the equivalent of flinging poo.

MAKING AN OBSERVATION ABOUT HOW YOU ARE SCUMMY IS NOT A DEFLECTION

Deflection is like your buzzword man

~

[Desperado]

I am not getting how you are immediately discounting indies, the large game list for accepted roles isn't super clear.

From the rules for Normal Games, which state:

Mechanics which are explicitly Non-Normal include:

Those affecting a role's alignment (no Cults).
Anything which significantly affects the core mechanic of majority/plurality lynches (no Kingmaker, for example).
Anything resolving with a random element, with the exception of missed night choices. It must be included in the public ruleset if you are resolving night choices in this way.
Post Restrictions (other than those included in the ruleset, such as "No quoting your Role PM").
Lying to the players, including False Role Reveals and "Scum Masons".
Night action redirection (no Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, or Redirector).

Alignments other than Mafia/Werewolf, Pro-Town, and Serial Killer (no Survivor, Lyncher, or Jester).

[Om the Destroyer]

{Amethyst Kitty, Bacde, BeautyAndTheBeast, Cephrir, Nero Cain, Om the Destroyer} --> Players I have no interest in lynching.
{ArcAngel9, Bulbazak} --> Players I would instantly lynch given the chance.
{Desperado, Nachomamma8, Slandaar} --> Players I'm uncertain about.

This townlist is great, Bulbazak scumread is great, Amethyst Kitty townread is meh, the rest is all decent.

Welcome to townville. Please vote Bulbazak. Thanks.

~

[CrashTextDummie]

I would have preferred doing this after everyone was accounted for, but I'm itching to move on and Seanald might need to be replaced.

My general rule of thumb when analyzing reactions to a D1 massclaim suggestion is that the most likely scum reaction is no reaction. This applies to the following people in this game:
-BeautyAndTheBeast
-DLG
-Mac
-Nero Cain
-Bacde
-BabySpice

There are several scum in this list and I believe

very

strongly in this tell: While it may be up for debate whether D1 massclaim generally benefits town or scum more, there is absolutely no questioning whatsoever that scum despise the concept and would rather not not dwell on the issue. You'd think that it's no bother to them to drop a line on the subject, but I've seen a majority of scum outright ignore it in every game I've seriously pushed the idea in:
- In Purified Mafia, I divided the game into two piles based on this tell, and 3/4 of the remaining scum landed in the scum pile. Just one (StrangerCoug) slipped through the cracks, and only because I was lenient in applying the tell.
- In Team Mafia, literally every member of the town reacted, while all the scum didn't. If this game hadn't happened in the experimental phase of me making this play, I could have called the entire scum team on D1 (this is the game that compelled Glork to try it out elsewhere)
- In TV U-Pick, the entire scum team also fell into this tell

B&B is the worst offender in this game, because they've been very active throughout. The rest is mostly people who were late to the game or undercontributing, which doesn't mitigate the tell at all in my mind. Massclaim discussion has been one the main points of interest so far and should warrant a comment from any and all town players.

--------------

I have never personally seen scum support D1 massclaim. The following players did:
-Nachomamma8
-Desperado
-Om the Destroyer
-Thor
-ActionDan
-fuzzy

Roughly in order of how strongly they supported it. I debated putting fuzzy on this list, because as has been pointed out, he didn't actually give his own opinion on whether we should massclaim, only stating that he wanted popcorn if we did massclaim. Nachomamma, who arguably pushed the idea as hard as me or harder, would be playing a

very

gutsy game if he's scum in my opinion and is therefore very likely town. But really this whole list has a strong chance of being all town with the possible exception of fuzzy.

-------------

Opposing D1 massclaim is the most frequent pro-town reaction I've seen by virtue of most scum not reacting at all. The list for this game is as follows:
-Bulbazark
-ArcAngel9
-Oversoul
-Cephrir
-Slandaar
-AmethystKitty
-Syriana
-RedRyu
-Eddie Fenix

Bulbazark and ArcAngel reacted quite passionately to the idea, which I associate with town play. I've seen it only once from inexperienced scum and strictly from town otherwise. That makes them both town reads. Oversoul is a special case I'll get to in another post, the rest go in the null-leaning-town pile pending closer examination.

-----------

That leaves only Rondar and Seanald unaccounted for.

[Om the Destroyer]

CTD you're not reading enough of the game, you're basing too many of your reads on how people reacted to massclaim and not their actual motivations for doing so; you're also not reading the game closely enough because Bulbazak is fairly obvious scum.

~

[Desperado]

EBWOP: Never had someone post 4 times while I was in the process of writing up a case on them. It can only be a good thing, I guess; either he'll have blown my read out of the water with his towniness, or he'll have made it even stronger by scumming it up. I'll let you know which one it is after I read them.

It was the latter. More votes on DLG please.

[Desperado]

{Amethyst Kitty, Bacde, BeautyAndTheBeast, Cephrir, Nero Cain, Om the Destroyer} --> Players I have no interest in lynching.
{ArcAngel9, Bulbazak} --> Players I would instantly lynch given the chance.
{Desperado, Nachomamma8, Slandaar} --> Players I'm uncertain about.

This townlist is great, Bulbazak scumread is great, Amethyst Kitty townread is meh, the rest is all decent.

Welcome to townville. Please vote Bulbazak. Thanks.

~

Is this a joke that's going over my head, or are you seriously saying DLG is town because you agree with his reads after arguing with B&TB and Bulba for 10 pages about B&TB doing the same?!

[CrashTextDummie]

I will comment on other points of discussion tomorrow when I should have time to do more than skim thanks to the holiday, and I will likely move my vote to B&B, although Oversoul really should be voted to oblivion for persistently ignoring this question:

Why did you want to soft-claim pre MC-suggestion, Oversoul?

People have been asking about the case against him. It has been repeatedly pointed out what the scum motivation is behind a claim like his, and he has so far provided zero town motivation for doing it. I really struggle to think of any.

He is also guilty of soft-claiming, which in general is shady at best and a common scum tactic, and the appropriate course of action is to force a full claim.