NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[pirate mollie]

om thoughts on ctd

Spoiler: <<< Mod-edited-votecount >>>

Nachomamma8 - 4 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Amethyst Kitty)

Red Ryu - 3 (Oversoul, Thor665, Baby Spice)

Oversoul - 2 (Nachomamma8, CrashTextDummie)
BeautyAndTheBeast - 2 (Cephrir, EddieFenix)
Bulbazak - 2 (Om the Destroyer, fuzzybutternut)
Cephrir - 1 (BeautyAndTheBeast)
ArcAngel9 - 1 (DLG)
Om the Destroyer - 1 (Bulbazak)
DLG - 1 (Desperado)

Not Voting - 7 (Mac, Syryana, Slandaar, Seanald, ActionDan, Rondar, ArcAngel9)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

Deadline is on Monday, May 27th, @ 11:30 AM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-27 11:31:59).

[Om the Destroyer]

The Om-HD hydra vs. Cephrir: I have played with HD before and have heard of Om. Their experience on the site conflicts with their lack of meta-knowledge on Majiffy, another prominent member on the site, who HD has mentioned being familiar with. Cephrir has been on the site since around 2006. He is also not familiar with Majiffy meta-wise, and he isn't playing in a way I'd expect a seasoned player to. However, unlike HD, Om, Majiffy, and others, I'm not familiar with his name. Therefore I decided to check him out via his wiki, where I came across his game statistics. This keeps him from going into the main "scum" pile, meaning he is still a null/scum read. Did I stutter that time?

Now that I'm back home, I'm going to get that Om case ready. Be prepared, it might take awhile to sort all of the quotes.

If you're going to argue the meta point (the fact that people not being familiar with meta being a scumtell anyway is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of btw) then maybe I should give

my

opinion on the meta tells from B&B.
Majiffy is playing just like Majiffy plays. mollie is the one I'm feeling bad about. If you think the slot's all Majiffy, and you're basing your reads off that, you're playing this game all wrong.

~Pertayter

PEDIT: lemme get to that after I finish reading up. also post in your hydra goddamit

[ActionDan]

Holy shit. When I have to hold down clicking the scroll bar for a solid 5 secs to get down to the end of the page there is a problem.

I'll be reading through these 30 (jesus fuck) pages in 4 hours.

I've had a shit day and my computer is water-damaged and the keyboard was fucked up earlier so we'll see if it holds.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

om thoughts on ctd

that was me

eta: om

[CrashTextDummie]

CTD you're not reading enough of the game, you're basing too many of your reads on how people reacted to massclaim and not their actual motivations for doing so; you're also not reading the game closely enough because Bulbazak is fairly obvious scum.

I disagree.

I have provided links that prove the strength of this kind of analysis. It's strong

because

it ignores all the behavioral bullshit and focuses on an aspect of play that scum typically don't expect to be scrutinized that happens to be very telling.

I invite you to provide a pro-town reason for ignoring a main point of discussion in massclaim, particularly in this game where support for it actually seemed potentially strong enough to make it happen. The tell applies most strongly to the group that is guilty of this.

I agree that I need to read the game more closely to solidify these reads, but as a general assessment of everyone's alignment, I feel very confident in this method.

[Om the Destroyer]

om thoughts on ctd

I have him as leaning town for the massclaim suggestion but his analysis seems weak to me and makes me less sure of that read.

IDK what Om thinks about him though.

~

[Om the Destroyer]

CTD you're not reading enough of the game, you're basing too many of your reads on how people reacted to massclaim and not their actual motivations for doing so; you're also not reading the game closely enough because Bulbazak is fairly obvious scum.

I disagree.

I have provided links that prove the strength of this kind of analysis. It's strong

because

it ignores all the behavioral bullshit and focuses on an aspect of play that scum typically don't expect to be scrutinized that happens to be very telling.

I invite you to provide a pro-town reason for ignoring a main point of discussion in massclaim, particularly in this game where support for it actually seemed potentially strong enough to make it happen. The tell applies most strongly to the group that is guilty of this.

I agree that I need to read the game more closely to solidify these reads, but as a general assessment of everyone's alignment, I feel very confident in this method.

I meant more the townreads you were deriving from it, not really the scumreads as much.
The "behavioral bullshit" is what really catches scum (and town!) though.

~ :town:

[Om the Destroyer]

I wrote :town: instead of

[Om the Destroyer]

Leaning scum, because I don't think you're that stupid.

Yes because calling someone out on doing something scummy is definitely stupid and scummy.
Mmm hmm.

Nice strawman. I called you scum, because I don't believe you to be stupid. The 2 were never connected.

Can we please go on more about how this is a false dilemma?
~Pertayter
HD get back on skype so we can real-time talk. Or check the QT, whichever floats your boat.

[Desperado]

{Amethyst Kitty, Bacde, BeautyAndTheBeast, Cephrir, Nero Cain, Om the Destroyer} --> Players I have no interest in lynching.
{ArcAngel9, Bulbazak} --> Players I would instantly lynch given the chance.
{Desperado, Nachomamma8, Slandaar} --> Players I'm uncertain about.

This townlist is great, Bulbazak scumread is great, Amethyst Kitty townread is meh, the rest is all decent.

Welcome to townville. Please vote Bulbazak. Thanks.

~

Is this a joke that's going over my head, or are you seriously saying DLG is town because you agree with his reads after arguing with B&TB and Bulba for 10 pages about B&TB doing the same?!

Om I think you missed this at the end of the last page.

[Om the Destroyer]

{Amethyst Kitty, Bacde, BeautyAndTheBeast, Cephrir, Nero Cain, Om the Destroyer} --> Players I have no interest in lynching.
{ArcAngel9, Bulbazak} --> Players I would instantly lynch given the chance.
{Desperado, Nachomamma8, Slandaar} --> Players I'm uncertain about.

This townlist is great, Bulbazak scumread is great, Amethyst Kitty townread is meh, the rest is all decent.

Welcome to townville. Please vote Bulbazak. Thanks.

~

Is this a joke that's going over my head, or are you seriously saying DLG is town because you agree with his reads after arguing with B&TB and Bulba for 10 pages about B&TB doing the same?!

Om I think you missed this at the end of the last page.

yes I did

sort of but not in the way you're thinking

there's a difference between "This guy has sensical and good reads, town" and "This guy agrees with me about some stuff, town".

[Om the Destroyer]

Leaning scum, because I don't think you're that stupid.

Yes because calling someone out on doing something scummy is definitely stupid and scummy.
Mmm hmm.

Nice strawman. I called you scum, because I don't believe you to be stupid. The 2 were never connected.

Can we please go on more about how this is a false dilemma?
~Pertayter
HD get back on skype so we can real-time talk. Or check the QT, whichever floats your boat.

I'll be on QT for ~20 mins

~

[Desperado]

But the reads are only good and sensical because they align with your own, right?

[Om the Destroyer]

But the reads are only good and sensical because they align with your own, right?

some of them don't, some of them do

like if there are reasons I can see for reading some of my townreads as scum or scumreads as town I'll consider those sensical too

if the reads are all radically different something's wrong

[Om the Destroyer]

It's kinda funny when you look at Bulb's case and so many of the points are "OMG DEFLECTION SCUM LYNCH NOW PLZ PLZ PLZ."
I seriously couldn't even get halfway through that case because I was laughing too hard. Please, learn the definition of deflection before you use it. Right now you sound like a more aggressive version of my very first scumgame.
/inb4hetriestocallusscumfordiscreditinghim yeah, nice try, you can only cry wolf so many times before no one listens.

~Pertayter

[Desperado]

OK

So DLG has good reads, but what about his actual play? What do you think of my post about it?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

so what do you think of nacho's list again, om?

[Om the Destroyer]

OK

So DLG has good reads, but what about his actual play? What do you think of my post about it?

from what I've read it's him saying people aren't scumhunting while he himself is townhunting

ehhhhhhh

I don't really think that's strong since I probably call people out on that too and I tend to townhunt

[Om the Destroyer]

so what do you think of nacho's list again, om?

Right now I agree with all the ones I actually have a read on (first two and last two). Yes, that means that I now have your slot as a townread too. I feel better about you after seeing the last 5 pages.
CTD looks pretty town right now, I can see a clear town motivation in the way he's analysing the players. However I'd still like to see how he fares at analysing the parts that aren't about the massclaim, and until then my complete judgement is reserved.
Also I did a few ISO's because HD wanted me to, and I can see Nacho as scum too (but not super strongly right now).
AA is quite obviously town though, but the reason I can see the merit in her being a scumread is that the last game I played with her when she played like this she got run up to L-1 very early on because she was so scummy too.

I'm kinda bored of this right now, I'll come back to it later.
~Pertayter

[Om the Destroyer]

all the posts that weren't signed just then were HD

~Pertayter

[ArcAngel9]

Holy shit. When I have to hold down clicking the scroll bar for a solid 5 secs to get down to the end of the page there is a problem.

I'll be reading through these 30 (jesus fuck) pages in 4 hours.

I've had a shit day and my computer is water-damaged and the keyboard was fucked up earlier so we'll see if it holds.

these kind of posts from Action Dan doesn't give me good vibes.

[Seanald]

ok just got post from mod, that was actually a prod didnt know game started, catching up now.

[Cephrir]

Holy semantic arguments, Batman! Om/Bulba argument devolved into arguments on arguments on arguments so fast I lost track of what they were even talking about. A lot of the last few pages has been useless bickering I didn't find particularly telling. Quick read list (no order within groups):

Town

CrashTextDummie

- See one of my last few posts, plus his most recent analysis is really good. Though I don't necessarily agree with dispensing with behavioral tells, not that he's doing so entirely, the analysis post strikes me as town because it takes strong stances on pretty much the whole player list and is well reasoned.

DLG

- Liked his first couple posts a lot, like the AA9 vote, obviously actually thinking (783), and 764 contains the only decent reason I've seen for suspecting Nacho (Nacho still seems like an opportunistic BW to me)

Slandaar

- 663 and 692 are well thought out, but I'm not terribly sure about this read. Wish he'd explain his opinions in more depth.

Om the Destroyer

- Don't really get why they're coming under fire. Could be whiteknighting me a bit I suppose but, well, if so it's working.

Nulltown

Nachomamma8

- haven't seen any actually convincing points against him, just a couple little nitpicks that I don't feel like merit more than an FoS.

Nero Cain

- As I recently explained. Also, as I mentioned early in the game I find hyperaggressive play to be protown (both in the sense that I think it benefits the town and in the sense that townies do it) and this extends to abrasiveness.

EddieFenix

- 691 reads as town, and I would expect a new player to have made more mistakes by now as scum.

Amethyst Kitty

- Posts seem genuine to me, though could stand to be less cautious. This is largely because 'you've posted a good amount and not much stuck out as scummy'. Nacho vote seems a little opportunistic because I'm just not getting that case. People have made a few okay isolated points but nothing that really felt voteworthy.

Null

Mac

- I dislike 481 and 547 but not enough to feel strongly about you.

Bacde

- I'd like to see reasons for his votes but I get the impression he actually does have said reasons.

Red Ryu

- I've wavered on this guy quite a bit. Null for now, might merit revisiting.

Nullscum

Bulbazak

- Before the great debacle because I felt like his initial points against Om were not very good. Posts during the great debate seem genuine but I also skimmed it once they started getting into semantics. For the most part I agreed with Om more.

fuzzybutternut

- Appears to be making a concerted effort to be as useless and sheepy as humanly possible. I may have read him poorly in Amnesiac Mafia but at least in that game he was actually trying.

Scum

Oversoul

- Reasons for this have been stated repeatedly by others and I agree with Nacho's stance on his claim.

BeautyAndTheBeast

- I don't think I need to explain this one.

ArcAngel9

- There's been some discussion about her behavior being within her town meta but I otherwise find her posts scummy, wrt Oversoul wagon mostly as she hasn't said much else: early posts are really alarmist for no good reason whereas she is oddly quiet about the speed of the Nacho wagon, 363 chainsaw of Oversoul, 682 mass chainsaw of Oversoul, finally comments on something else in her most recent post but "this lurker is rubbing me the wrong way" is a mile and a half short of scumhunting.

Post More

Thor665
Syryana - your opening reads suck.
Desperado
Baby Spice
Seanald
ActionDan
Rondar

[fuzzybutternut]

tbch, the amount of posting in this game is driving me batshit crazy and is fucking up my reads. I want to hear the rest of your reads, though.

[Amethyst Kitty]

OS, I'm planning to browse through games of Nacho to see if he does these summary things more often as scum or town. I thought my little post would have gotten more attention when I said it, but it didn't so it through off alarm bells.

@Syr:

I got a question for you. You say this "Def lynching AA too #239 and #246 AND #252, I'm not reading her posts anymore"
Although, you have her listed as 'null' why is that? Also never say I want to lynch blank and blank, but I'm going to not read her posts. You are in confirmation bias area and I don't like it.

FoS for that.

@Bacade:

Hush about your confirmed town nonsense. You aren't confirmed town. If you want people to read you as town then play like it.

@HD:

Buddy Nero moar please.

@Bacade:

I want them to explain their weak scum read on us. Do you have a problem with me wanting that?

@HD/OM:

Just because it's not mentioned in the thread doesn't mean it's there and I have it for several reasons, but there are some I can't even discuss currently.

@Angel:

Syr actually did somewhat try to contribute. I'm surprised you didn't catch that.

(Side note: I do believe Nacho is scum. My gut was pinging, but I needed to wait for Mara to discuss it with her)

I was in this game that Slandaar is talking about in this post.
(Only problem I currently have with this post of Slandaar is that - he's possibly going to let someone who could be potentially slide with the argument why would he do this? Which boils down to the argument: "obv scum being too obv."
He's being wishywashy and I don't actually like that coming from Slandaar.

@Nero/Mollie: Both of you be nice to each other. Be civil.

So Mollie is having issues with me abandoning her.

@HD/OM:

I don't see how Bulba misrepped me.

#428 is an inside joke. Not many people will get it, but I tease Mollie a lot when I'm drunk. Plain and simple - it wasn't indicative of an alignment. Plus I'm reading Mollie/Jiffy as town and that's written in other posts of mine.

Now you are misrepping us in post 730.
It's mainly due to this "My other point was that you were going for the whole "Oh we're waiting for the other head's consent to vote" but then you voted with what seemed to be a lack of consent from Mala. This is a disconnect."

I showed exactly why I was waiting before casting a vote. You asked me that and I answered. Mara and I want to play as a team and not two indi heads moving our vote around.

Please read this post of mine.
It was clearly obvious we both were on skype and we both were in the thread. How is that a lack of consent from me?

@Nero:

4/13 - I don't see it as a huge wagon. You are flipping out over stupid shit. You are trying to sling mud yet you don't call out Bacade for his 5th vote ON Nacho?

@Fuzzy:

Other than sheeping. Please read and please contribute.

(LOLOL. Mara took the words right out of my mouth.)

(I'm also wanting to bash my head into a wall seeing all these "Shut up and lynch so and so." or "Moar votes on so and so." Stop shoving it down the throats. Make a clear chorent case or stop tunneling and look fucking elsewhere.)

*sigh*

Starting to warm up to the idea Bulb/OM/HD is a T v T argument.

@RedRyu:

Thoughts on other happenings? You are starting to making me question my vote on Nacho. You are sitting back and allowing Bulb/OM/HD to tear each other apart along with other conversations with other players - yet you aren't making an effort to actually comment on shit.

(Mollie has a point about Nero's post)

@HD/OM:

Just because I question someone doesn't mean I think they are scum. I could be wanting people to flesh out their answers or prior reads.

@CTD:

Are you seriously basing your scum/town reads based off of reactions to your massclaiming suggestion?
Also can you walk me through your process on "reacting passionately" is?
I believe I reacted passionately to it, but hey to each their own.


~Mala