MICRO 172: DRAGON BALL Z [TOWN WIN]

[TheIrishPope]

I apologize if you have already stated this, but why did you vote for me Ghostlin? Scum won't vote because they know they would be lynched, sorry if I'm not getting the point and it's obvious.

[Hamlet]

Pope: you've been pretty adamant about this whole "slip" ordeal, and now it looks as if you're only trying to put more suspicion on Ghostlin after the idea had been dismissed.
It's almost as if you want him lynched regardless of what he does.

@Ghostlin: Speculation of the setup isn't going to get us anywhere, and as far as the "quick hammering" thing goes, Bel is right. That's damn near suicidal to do as scum.

Pope, if you will, please summarize why you think Ghostlin is scum
Ghostlin, please explain why your vote on Pope isn't OMGUS.

--Fuzz

[TheIrishPope]

Well, I believe Ghostlin is scum for the following reasons:
1. He makes assumptions on key components of the game. Such assumptions are detrimental and only hurt the eyes of Town.
2. Gut feeling.
3. His stance on reaction tests was not asked by anyone...
4. ISO 5 seemed suspicious because it made no goddamned sense and ISO 16 just calls for backup, trying to get everyone suspicious of me, apparently.
5. Dat bandwagoning on Bacde who gave no reasons.

I have been pretty adamant because it just gave away an important fact: he is aware of the existence of two scum. He is either a ridiculously overpowered super role named Master Roshi, or he is scum. And we all know what is more likely.

What are your reads, Fuzz/Bel?
Or should I just say Hamlet

Actually, I want EVERYONE'S reads. They are beneficial to the game at this stage. If you don't at least give one read that is definitely scummy.

[Ghostlin]

Hmmm... Bacde is pretty fishy, but whatevs.
VOTE: sword_of_omens
For criticizing our awesomeness

This post is why I'm voting you.

You say someone is suspicious and vote someone else.

[Ghostlin]

It's essentially saying "I have a suspicion, but I won't vote it, I'm going to give a random vote instead on someone else."

[PimHel]

First of, I also thought that it's very likely that there are 2 scum.
But that's not the important bit. The important bit,@Pope, is that you brought up that Ghostlin ' slipped'. Then when Ghostlin said that in most 9p games there are 2 scum, you reply that there could be a SK or cult. However, this has nothing to do with the ' slip'. This is just bad.

However, I see what you're doing. We need some DBZ fans in here >.<

Unvote

Vote Dr. P

[DoctorPepper]

Btw I think we're done on the cult issue, that was dumb. A better rebuttal for that would have been there could have been 3 scum, not 2. Pimhel already saidnthis, ao yeah. So PimHel, any explanation to that vote?

Hamlet, whomis scummier from the two? Or are you willing to say that they could just both be town

[PimHel]

I voted you, because your big post seems fake. I don't get the feeling that you are actually suspicious of either of them when I read your post.

[DoctorPepper]

Hmm, I wonder why people always think my posts seem fake, cause Thats how I really felt about the issue. So can you explain why that is, so I can see it? Besides, at this early stage, I can't really be suspicious of anyone too much just by basing it on that exchange, it has only been 2 days irl.

[Hamlet]

What are your reads, Fuzz/Bel?
Or should I just say Hamlet

Actually, I want EVERYONE'S reads. They are beneficial to the game at this stage. If you don't at least give one read that is definitely scummy.

At this point, Pope/Ghostlin looks rather town v. town to me.

I haven't got even enough of a gut feel to call anyone scum yet, but I also don't want to be sitting on an RVS vote this late, so

UNVOTE:

I usually only vote scumreads I'm reasonably confident in, which makes my votes pretty sticky. Fuzzy might pressure vote from this slot, though

--Bel

[TheIrishPope]

It's essentially saying "I have a suspicion, but I won't vote it, I'm going to give a random vote instead on someone else."

If I am suspicious of someone, it does NOT follow that I must vote for that person.

Guys, where are them reads

[DoctorPepper]

Incase I have my vote on

UNVOTE

That was RVS

Im not sure I like ffery's idea of using meta to get a read cause yes, Ghostlin may seem town for that statement cause he did it somewhere else, but players can just pick up on those things that people call them town for and just apply it for all the games they play in, so I dont think its completely reliable.

Hamlet, why does it look town v town to you?

Pope, gimme a moment, let me reread and analyze

[DoctorPepper]

Ghostlin, isnt the fact that reaction tests are town tells to a lot of players (including you) incentive enough to go with them even if it means sticking your head out as scum?

Pope, instead of clamoring for people to give their reads, you could give yours too and everyone could follow.

Hmm, sword has been quiet lately.

Anyway Im not sure I like either Ghostlin OR TheIrishPope, they both seem scummy to me. Ghostlin's whole "dont vote or you are maf" thing seems like scum trying to look town because said posts were completely unnecessary, I doubt that this wagon would push through anyway without substantial evidence of him beine scum at page 5. S yeah, his posts just "seem town" to me. While people say they like Pope's later posts, I do not agree with his reasons for thinking Ghost is scum. 1) assumptions arent a scum tell, 2) you dont need people to ask you about yourbstance on anyting in this game. However I do agree about Ghostlin's iso 5, I think everyone in this game already stated how its wrong. Anyway, Indont thinknit could be a bus, but Im not sure what to think.

Pope's whole answer to the fishy =/= suspicion doesnt make sense though. If you have suspicion, shouldnt you vote that person, if you find them scummy? Cause if youre not suspicious of them being scum, what exactly are you suspicious of them for?

Bacde, to me, he's trying to hard to prove he's town by saying stuff like

tryst me when I say I wear my alignment on my sleeve and its easy to tell

By this logic, are you saying that it should be obvious that you are scum if you were? No certainties in this game.

So those are my three scum reads, I guess that puts everyone else as null or town, and since newearth is VLA and sword barely posted, they are null to me.

Ffery reads town to me cause of her early questioning and her early otuting of her reads, like she's shown an interest to scumhunt and not just sit back and watch the flamewar between the nonslip.
PimHel reads town for his vote on me cause yes, scum like to post like they seem town. Basically I think he's reading into it wrong but I think his methods are townie, looking for people who he thinks are posting but not helping
Hamlet is null leaning town. Null cause only his last 3 posts were relevant to game discussion imo. But he leans town for actually questioning both people not just tunneling on one person,

In short, my town reads lie on one principle, they actually try to move on past the whole slip/not slip thing and try to get scum hunting moving, thats why they read town to me.

[TheIrishPope]

Pope, instead of clamoring for people to give their reads, you could give yours too and everyone could follow.

Pope's whole answer to the fishy =/= suspicion doesnt make sense though. If you have suspicion, shouldnt you vote that person, if you find them scummy? Cause if youre not suspicious of them being scum, what exactly are you suspicious of them for?

1. Scum = Ghostlin for the reasons above. Town = You, because I see the intent of your posts. Everyone else is null.
2. I have seen that many power roles act scummy accidentaly. I would like to point that out. Again, suspicious people don't deserve a vote, they deserve to be questioned and looked upon with soul crushing eyes. If someone is suspicious, they are not necessarily scum. They might just have started on the wrong foot or something. At this stage of D1, I have confidence that I can give some the benefit of the doubt.

[DoctorPepper]

Well putting a vote on them does help dissuade or further that suspicion based on their reactions anyway, so..

[sword_of_omens]

sorry all, work has been nuts..trying to play catch up...
i'll be in and posting tomorrow and will be able to start pulling my wieght ...

[TheIrishPope]

Thing is, I had not seen everyone post, so I couldn't just vote for the first person I saw as suspicious. This is a waiting game.
So chill.

[DoctorPepper]

Well since I haven't voted, I guess I cant call you out on that.

[fferyllt]

Im not sure I like ffery's idea of using meta to get a read cause yes, Ghostlin may seem town for that statement cause he did it somewhere else, but players can just pick up on those things that people call them town for and just apply it for all the games they play in, so I dont think its completely reliable.

I agree. Which is part of the reason I said I wasn't calling it a town tell at this time.

[thenewearth]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ghostlin

Forgot to do this because I was waiting for the votecount

[Bacde]

VOTE: sword

[Ghostlin]

It's essentially saying "I have a suspicion, but I won't vote it, I'm going to give a random vote instead on someone else."

If I am suspicious of someone, it does NOT follow that I must vote for that person.

Guys, where are them reads

Um, yeah, it kinda does, that's kind of what a vote is for. You're hedging your bets. I don't like that. And if you voted for the first person you found suspicious, you could of gotten more information out of them. While I don't like reaction testing (not my play style, and it catches more town than not), I'm not against interrogating the fuck out of someone you're voting.

Ghostlin, isnt the fact that reaction tests are town tells to a lot of players (including you) incentive enough to go with them even if it means sticking your head out as scum?

Alright. Here comes the poison pill of WIFOM. What I should of said is Bacde's reaction test, in my experience, is performed more often by town slot than a scum slot. Scum usually don't like pulling off such things because it draws a lot of questions and suspicions to the slot. (Read page 2 and 3 for a good example of this.) Yes, scum can certainly do it, but they usually don't--there's a number of ways to prove towniliness than gullotine yourself to a reaction test. And while it seems town, certain folks look at you like you've wasted your time.

This is page six, so I don't have a lot of scum reads, but I do have the following: I don't like TIP due to his waffling, and being non committal at this time. Hamlet's kind of wigging me out because hydras are usually a little more active with a bit more substance.

Bacde's reaction test is a town tell for me, but bluntly, not strong enough that I'd bet one million dollars on it or anything.

I'm meh about DP's posts. He seems to be holding really close to the vest and seeming to not being able to make up his mind if Bacde, myself, or TIP are scum--it's a little early however to accuse him of scummy fence sitting. He's a null.

Most everyone else is a null atm.

[TheIrishPope]

I am non committal? What did you smoke? Can I have some?

[Ghostlin]

I am non committal? What did you smoke? Can I have some?

Yes, you are noncommittal any time you don't have the balls to vote for a 'suspicion', and then OMGUS someone else.

[TheIrishPope]

Because jumping on a BW isn't suspicious at all, right?