Open 493 - Jungle Republic. (Game Over - Werewolf Victory)

[Bacde]

DBK has a high win percentage rate as scum for a reason

Mac I need you to make me a promise. I'll be in on this. If one of us dies, the other pushes the fuck out of DBK, ok?

Because I don't trust this town beyond us to make the right call

[Bulbazak]

Mac is mega-town

Do explain.

[Mac]

Yeah. Can't we do that now?

Klick is lik guaranteed mafia. Almost certain DBK is a werewolf too. Just ISO him and look at his quick change/bus on fuzzy.

[Bulbazak]

I actually did ISO Bo and Fuzzy, because I had the same thought. I saw no connection between the 2. Bo flopped back and forth on Fuzzy all game, but it didn't read as partner interaction whatsoever.

[Bacde]

Mac is mega-town

Do explain.

I never really explained why I think Klick is scum

but Mac independently came up with the exact same reason on his own

Thats unlikely to come from someone who is Klick's buddy, they would have come up with shoddy reasoning at best

Which means the only way for Mac to be scum (assuming Klick is mafia) is if he is a werewolf

But he's probably not a werewolf for a bunch of reasons I've been saying

[Bacde]

I actually did ISO Bo and Fuzzy, because I had the same thought. I saw no connection between the 2. Bo flopped back and forth on Fuzzy all game, but it didn't read as partner interaction whatsoever.

what do you look for when trying to read for partner interactions?

[Bulbazak]

I never really explained why I think Klick is scum

but Mac independently came up with the exact same reason on his own

Thats unlikely to come from someone who is Klick's buddy, they would have come up with shoddy reasoning at best

Which means the only way for Mac to be scum (assuming Klick is mafia) is if he is a werewolf

But he's probably not a werewolf for a bunch of reasons I've been saying

Or it means Klick might be town, Mac might be scum, and you might have confirmation bias.

I actually did ISO Bo and Fuzzy, because I had the same thought. I saw no connection between the 2. Bo flopped back and forth on Fuzzy all game, but it didn't read as partner interaction whatsoever.

what do you look for when trying to read for partner interactions?

I'm looking for reasons on the wagon (Are they bussing or not.), reactions to each other, and whether any interaction between them read as genuine or manufactured.

Bo was on the Fuzzy wagon when it made no sense for a scumpartner to be on it. His actual confusion concerning Fuzzy's alignment reads as genuine, even when read in a dual ISO, which leads me to believe that Bo had no clue what Fuzzy's actual alignment was. I would have expected Fuzzy's partner to perhaps bus him when it seemed inevitable to gain towncred, but Bo was on the wagon when it didn't make sense for a partner to be.

However, go back and check Egg's reaction. He states approval for the Fuzzy wagon for most of the game without joining it, and he only joins it after it starts gaining a lot of traction after Bacde enters the game. That read like distancing and bussing to me.

[Bacde]

Or it means Klick might be town, Mac might be scum, and you might have confirmation bias.

this is highly unlikely as the reason for klick being scum was a REALLY good reason

[Bulbazak]

Remind me of it.

[Bacde]

bulb are you mafia AND trying to keep the last werewolf alive?

lol how hard is it to be in your situation right now

[Bacde]

Remind me of it.

Sure, lemme find it, I've never actually expanded on it really

people just felt my town energy this game and its been awesome

[Bacde]

Well, I can explain it first

when I replaced into the game, everyone was hounding on icebox, thinking icebox was scum

there was also a clamor on fuzzy

Now I sorta make an assumption when I join games, I assume that the entire town is wrong and that the biggest bandwagon is on town. I know this isn't always true, but its what I do because it causes everyone to have a big reaction to me which helps me get reads.

so I assumed both fuzzy and icebox were town

But I wanted to reaction test, and icebox posted something that was a little awkward that someone called him out for being a slip, so I acted like it was a big deal and was a slip (and even posted a large image of stick figures playing football that said "FUMBLE!!"). Whats interesting is that I was TOTALLY supportive of wagoning icebox vocally, but I never voted icebox, because I was just trying to see how people would react. I never actually thought icebox made a slip, it was just awkward phrasing.

While I was doing that, not only did Klick vote for, push on, and be confident about icebox being scum for his slip, he ALSO lauded me for joining the game saying that I make the game more entertaining. That set off my scum-dar as I once played in a klick-modded game before as town and pretty much guaranteed a scum-victory with my poor play (I've gotten better since then )

[Mac]

I never really explained why I think Klick is scum

but Mac independently came up with the exact same reason on his own

Thats unlikely to come from someone who is Klick's buddy, they would have come up with shoddy reasoning at best

Which means the only way for Mac to be scum (assuming Klick is mafia) is if he is a werewolf

But he's probably not a werewolf for a bunch of reasons I've been saying

Or it means Klick might be town, Mac might be scum, and you might have confirmation bias.

I actually did ISO Bo and Fuzzy, because I had the same thought. I saw no connection between the 2. Bo flopped back and forth on Fuzzy all game, but it didn't read as partner interaction whatsoever.

what do you look for when trying to read for partner interactions?

I'm looking for reasons on the wagon (Are they bussing or not.), reactions to each other, and whether any interaction between them read as genuine or manufactured.

Bo was on the Fuzzy wagon when it made no sense for a scumpartner to be on it.

His actual confusion concerning Fuzzy's alignment reads as genuine, even when read in a dual ISO, which leads me to believe that Bo had no clue what Fuzzy's actual alignment was. I would have expected Fuzzy's partner to perhaps bus him when it seemed inevitable to gain towncred, but Bo was on the wagon when it didn't make sense for a partner to be.

However, go back and check Egg's reaction. He states approval for the Fuzzy wagon for most of the game without joining it, and he only joins it after it starts gaining a lot of traction after Bacde enters the game. That read like distancing and bussing to me.

how does the bolded work then. iirc DBK hopped on every wagon and it's mother, before hammering fuzzy. distancing and then bussing.

[Syryana]

Will catch up with this game later this evening, gotta get up on me large games first

[Does Bo Know]

I wasn't trying to turn anything on you Mac. I was wondering why you pointed it out in the first place if it was null and no one else had commented on it.

[Mac]

because it was worth pointing out.

[Does Bo Know]

Why?

[Mac]

why is it not worth pointing out?

regardless of whether it's a null tell, it's still worth remembering.

[Klick]

@Bacde: I have evidence that shows that I am a strong supporter of killing slips. Therefore, how is that a strong scumtell?

[Bulbazak]

Bo was on the Fuzzy wagon when it made no sense for a scumpartner to be on it.

His actual confusion concerning Fuzzy's alignment reads as genuine, even when read in a dual ISO, which leads me to believe that Bo had no clue what Fuzzy's actual alignment was. I would have expected Fuzzy's partner to perhaps bus him when it seemed inevitable to gain towncred, but Bo was on the wagon when it didn't make sense for a partner to be.

how does the bolded work then. iirc DBK hopped on every wagon and it's mother, before hammering fuzzy. distancing and then bussing.

Did you read the rest of my post? Bo's reasonings for voting the way he did and his confusion on Fuzzy read as genuine. Their interactions did not read like 2 scumpartners when I went through their ISO. Therefore, I don't think Bo is Fuzzy's partner.

Well, I can explain it first

when I replaced into the game, everyone was hounding on icebox, thinking icebox was scum

there was also a clamor on fuzzy

Now I sorta make an assumption when I join games, I assume that the entire town is wrong and that the biggest bandwagon is on town. I know this isn't always true, but its what I do because it causes everyone to have a big reaction to me which helps me get reads.

so I assumed both fuzzy and icebox were town

But I wanted to reaction test, and icebox posted something that was a little awkward that someone called him out for being a slip, so I acted like it was a big deal and was a slip (and even posted a large image of stick figures playing football that said "FUMBLE!!"). Whats interesting is that I was TOTALLY supportive of wagoning icebox vocally, but I never voted icebox, because I was just trying to see how people would react. I never actually thought icebox made a slip, it was just awkward phrasing.

While I was doing that, not only did Klick vote for, push on, and be confident about icebox being scum for his slip, he ALSO lauded me for joining the game saying that I make the game more entertaining. That set off my scum-dar as I once played in a klick-modded game before as town and pretty much guaranteed a scum-victory with my poor play (I've gotten better since then )

Was this your entire case? That Klick welcomed you to the game and was influenced by a slip (which from experience playing with him, he is apt to do)? Face it, you have nothing. For the same reason, Mac is not automatically town, because he brought up the slip thing. In fact, he's probably scum who is buddying up to you seeking town cred.

[Bacde]

@Bacde: I have evidence that shows that I am a strong supporter of killing slips. Therefore, how is that a strong scumtell?

You are good at mafia.

This took me a while to respond to, because I wanted to make sure I could respond to you from a position of strength and empowerment and righteousness.

My answer is this: I too, have evidence that shows that I am a strong supporter of killing slips. However, what icebox posted was not a slip (something that I could tell), and I am not a strong supporter of assuming what other people say is a slip

actually is

.

So I say to you, despite your "I have evidence that my behavior right now fits my profile" defense, that you are mafia.

[Bacde]

Bo was on the Fuzzy wagon when it made no sense for a scumpartner to be on it.

His actual confusion concerning Fuzzy's alignment reads as genuine, even when read in a dual ISO, which leads me to believe that Bo had no clue what Fuzzy's actual alignment was. I would have expected Fuzzy's partner to perhaps bus him when it seemed inevitable to gain towncred, but Bo was on the wagon when it didn't make sense for a partner to be.

how does the bolded work then. iirc DBK hopped on every wagon and it's mother, before hammering fuzzy. distancing and then bussing.

Did you read the rest of my post? Bo's reasonings for voting the way he did and his confusion on Fuzzy read as genuine. Their interactions did not read like 2 scumpartners when I went through their ISO. Therefore, I don't think Bo is Fuzzy's partner.

Well, I can explain it first

when I replaced into the game, everyone was hounding on icebox, thinking icebox was scum

there was also a clamor on fuzzy

Now I sorta make an assumption when I join games, I assume that the entire town is wrong and that the biggest bandwagon is on town. I know this isn't always true, but its what I do because it causes everyone to have a big reaction to me which helps me get reads.

so I assumed both fuzzy and icebox were town

But I wanted to reaction test, and icebox posted something that was a little awkward that someone called him out for being a slip, so I acted like it was a big deal and was a slip (and even posted a large image of stick figures playing football that said "FUMBLE!!"). Whats interesting is that I was TOTALLY supportive of wagoning icebox vocally, but I never voted icebox, because I was just trying to see how people would react. I never actually thought icebox made a slip, it was just awkward phrasing.

While I was doing that, not only did Klick vote for, push on, and be confident about icebox being scum for his slip, he ALSO lauded me for joining the game saying that I make the game more entertaining. That set off my scum-dar as I once played in a klick-modded game before as town and pretty much guaranteed a scum-victory with my poor play (I've gotten better since then )

Was this your entire case? That Klick welcomed you to the game

and was influenced by a slip

(which from experience playing with him, he is apt to do)? Face it, you have nothing. For the same reason, Mac is not automatically town, because he brought up the slip thing. In fact, he's probably scum who is buddying up to you seeking town cred.

lol no

what icebox posted

was not a slip

, icebox

was not scum

and therefore

could not have slipped

klick got really excited about people thinking that someone not on his team slipped, and he voted. Klick is scum

why are you so motivated to tell me that "I have nothing"? I have something, in fact I have GREAT evidence. You are mafia too, aren't you?

[Bacde]

considering that our seer outted on d1 I'm glad we lynched a werewolf,

but this is why I thought it would be important to lynch mafia, the social influence of a 3-man team is pretty big

[Bulbazak]

what icebox posted

was not a slip

, icebox

was not scum

and therefore

could not have slipped

klick got really excited about people thinking that someone not on his team slipped, and he voted. Klick is scum

why are you so motivated to tell me that "I have nothing"? I have something, in fact I have GREAT evidence. You are mafia too, aren't you?

But that was something that we didn't know at the time. I thought I saw a slip, I called them out on it, and explained it. Klick is influenced by slips, whether they are real or not. I've seen this before when I've played with him, so I don't have a hard time believing it. Another example from this game would be Icebox's trust tell. Unlike everyone else, Klick believed it immediately. In a similar manner, I've seem him believe supposed town slips almost immediately, even when it doesn't make sense to. So, I'm not going to immediately cry "scum" just because he followed a slip, which he has been proven apt to do.

And no, you do not have a great case. A greeting and an easily explained act do not a great case make. They make terrific supporting evidence, but they cannot hold an entire case together. If you want to convince me that Klick is scum, you're going to have to do better than that, using actual scumtells.

[Bacde]

what if I'm just trying to convince everyone else until you cave in and decide to bus your partner?