NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Amethyst Kitty]

we both have him null-leaning town mollie. The battle with HD/OM Hydra looks TvT

-Mara

Spoiler: <<< Mod-edited votecount >>>

Nachomamma8 - 5 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Amethyst Kitty, BeautyAndTheBeast)

Red Ryu - 4 (Oversoul, Thor665, Baby Spice, Mac)

Bulbazak - 3 (Om the Destroyer, fuzzybutternut, EddieFenix)
Oversoul - 2 (Nachomamma8, CrashTextDummie)
BeautyAndTheBeast - 1 (Cephrir)
ArcAngel9 - 1 (DLG)
Om the Destroyer - 1 (Bulbazak)
DLG - 1 (Desperado)

Not Voting - 6 (Syryana, Slandaar, Seanald, ActionDan, Rondar, ArcAngel9)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

Deadline is on Monday, May 27th, @ 11:30 AM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-27 11:31:59).

[Red Ryu]

no. I'm not gonna vote for Nacho. Not now or ever.

Cop this guy.

No fucking no.

Do not ever try and direct night actions.

Let the person who has the role do what they feel is right.

Plus

we don't

know if there's even a damn cop in the setup.

Shut up.

wtf no.

Directing who should be copped is far better.

You let people know who you want, if you are the cop, or you tell the cop who may not have a good pick who might be one.

If he dicides to go with a different pick fine by me.

But fuck that, I will direct what I choose.

[Red Ryu]

no. I'm not gonna vote for Nacho. Not now or ever.

why?

like I'm going to follow a silly fruit.

no. I'm not gonna vote for Nacho. Not now or ever.

Cop this guy.

Why?

You implied one of three things.

1. Dumb town who refuses to look into a read.
2. you have some kind form of PR that is linked with him.
3. You are scum with him.

I am heavily worried about this if you play in a way that makes you not easy to determine alignment, if you play anti-town, refusing to look into reads on a play, then I have to assume you are a solid candidate to be scum and should be copped.

[Amethyst Kitty]

Please show me a game where directing cop actions were beneficial? I don't think directing any type of investigation or protective roles are helpful because we don't know your alignment so we wouldn't know if you are scum trying to point us away from your buddies or you are scum directly fishing for information.

It's a bad idea. Knock it off.

~Mala

[Red Ryu]

Please show me a game where directing cop actions were beneficial? I don't think directing any type of investigation or protective roles are helpful because we don't know your alignment so we wouldn't know if you are scum trying to point us away from your buddies or you are scum directly fishing for information.

It's a bad idea. Knock it off.

~Mala

http://smashboards.com/threads/dg-archive-mvps.180310/

Take your pick of any mafia game here.

[Red Ryu]

the case on nacho is that nacho rules at mafia

but for some reason this game he is really lame

and his posts are lame

Case-wise, it's a whole lot of nothing. Why are his posts lame? How is this different from his normal meta? Your current case is a lot of Burden of Proficiency. You need more substance if you actually want me to pay any attention and take it seriously.

Him tunneling a null tell is not scummy?

Him refusing to look into the possibility Oversoul is town?

Him not even trying to accept the information Oversoul was providing was possible?

None of this is scummy? Because quite frankly it screams him trying to force a lynch on a slot.

[Bulbazak]

the case on nacho is that nacho rules at mafia

but for some reason this game he is really lame

and his posts are lame

Case-wise, it's a whole lot of nothing. Why are his posts lame? How is this different from his normal meta? Your current case is a lot of Burden of Proficiency. You need more substance if you actually want me to pay any attention and take it seriously.

Him tunneling a null tell is not scummy?

Him refusing to look into the possibility Oversoul is town?

Him not even trying to accept the information Oversoul was providing was possible?

None of this is scummy? Because quite frankly it screams him trying to force a lynch on a slot.

But that's not what Bacde said. He said the case was: Nacho is great at mafia. His posts have been lame. Therefore, he is scum.
That's not a case. That's Correlation Implies Causation.

Did Nacho ever say that Oversoul was a null tell? Or is Oversoul just a null tell for you?

[Desperado]

Him not even trying to accept the information Oversoul was providing was possible?

He was lying. Oversoul lied about having information. Why do you keep pretending like he never admitted this?!? It's bizarre and unsettling.

[Red Ryu]

the case on nacho is that nacho rules at mafia

but for some reason this game he is really lame

and his posts are lame

Case-wise, it's a whole lot of nothing. Why are his posts lame? How is this different from his normal meta? Your current case is a lot of Burden of Proficiency. You need more substance if you actually want me to pay any attention and take it seriously.

Him tunneling a null tell is not scummy?

Him refusing to look into the possibility Oversoul is town?

Him not even trying to accept the information Oversoul was providing was possible?

None of this is scummy? Because quite frankly it screams him trying to force a lynch on a slot.

But that's not what Bacde said. He said the case was: Nacho is great at mafia. His posts have been lame. Therefore, he is scum.
That's not a case. That's Correlation Implies Causation.

Did Nacho ever say that Oversoul was a null tell? Or is Oversoul just a null tell for you?

Nacho claimed he was gonna lynch Oversoul because on the sole fact, he claimed informed townie and said there were two killing roles in them game.

He said the information was not possible and useless.

It should be quite the opposite, but if the possibility of him thinking this as town and just focusing hard on this is up think again.

He never tried to consider intent or alignment with this, he admitted this when I pressed him on this. He never tried to consider or ask Oversoul past this, he stuff and sat on him all phase. He has not tried to get over it either, he has been sitting on that claim being the scummiest thing on earth and refuses to consider other possibilities here.

Again, he is not trying to hunt scum, he is trying to force a lynch to get a lynch.

That is scum intent.

[Bulbazak]

Nacho claimed he was gonna lynch Oversoul because on the sole fact, he claimed informed townie and said there were two killing roles in them game.

He said the information was not possible and useless.

It should be quite the opposite, but if the possibility of him thinking this as town and just focusing hard on this is up think again.

He never tried to consider intent or alignment with this, he admitted this when I pressed him on this. He never tried to consider or ask Oversoul past this, he stuff and sat on him all phase. He has not tried to get over it either, he has been sitting on that claim being the scummiest thing on earth and refuses to consider other possibilities here.

Again, he is not trying to hunt scum, he is trying to force a lynch to get a lynch.

That is scum intent.

Okay, now I know you're not reading the game. Nacho never said that the information "was not possible". He said that it could easily be inferred from night actions on d2, and that it was therefore useless and not evidence of Oversoul being an informed townie. I thought the same thing, which was part of why I voted Oversoul, because the claim came at a convenient time, was from a player with a history of backpedaling, and could have easily come from scum who had extra information. Oversoul has since admitted that he lied, and I have questioned him more on the subject, with mixed results (Thanks Eddie...). I need to review Nacho some more to find out if you've completely misrepped him or not, but igmeou.

[Red Ryu]

I'm very clearly reading.

I did word badly that the info was not possible but I am damn clear when I say he did not think that info was part of an informed townie and that he did not think. Don't cherry pick this, you didn't address anything else I said in there but that sentence.

He is not considering that it is possible OS was town and kept voting him for his role, his claim was not convenient I have no clue where you are getting this from. There are situations where him claiming like that was legitimate, even that info is helpful when it tells us something we need to know later, 2 killing roles talks about claims or factions later. Nacho refused to consider this and made it clear he did not consider this.

[Bacde]

what did OS admit to?

this is news to me

[Bacde]

There's also the possibility that OS is scum and knows that there are more than 2 nightkills in the game somehow

but either way nacho is hopping on this in an opportunistic, fake, and lifeless way as a convenient way to hide the fact that hes not scumhunting

because faking scumhunting is tough work

nacho is scum

[Bulbazak]

Just finished Nacho's ISO. Want to handle this first. Others can pitch in if they feel they need to.

He said the information was not possible and useless.

No he didn't.

He never tried to consider intent or alignment with this, he admitted this when I pressed him on this. He never tried to consider or ask Oversoul past this, he stuff and sat on him all phase. He has not tried to get over it either, he has been sitting on that claim being the scummiest thing on earth and refuses to consider other possibilities here.

He called him scum and then explained why.

Again, he is not trying to hunt scum, he is trying to force a lynch to get a lynch.

Are we reading the same game? What do you call the entire Nero thing?

Unvote

Vote Red Ryu

I suspect he's chainsaw defending Oversoul. I'm not liking how he's taking advantage of the current push on Nacho to try to force a lynch based on Oversoul alone, especially since he has shown that he has not read the thread, particularly where Oversoul admitted to lying. He has since ignored anyone who's pointed this out to him. I'm not seeing town motivation here.

[Bacde]

when did OS admit to lying? link plz

[Red Ryu]

Did Bulbazak even read my last post?

[Bulbazak]

when did OS admit to lying?

My claim was a gambit. I am not an informed townie. I made that claim because I wanted to see the reactions and judge whether or not anyone would jump down my throat to get me lynched for it and so far only Nacho really committed that crime.

As to why I contradicted myself, I did because I legitimately wasn't thinking when I answered the first time. I kept being vague or outright not answering the question because I wanted more people to react to my claim and unfortunately only a handful of players did.

CTD's analysis of the mass claim tell looks very town motivated and the fact that he is moving forward with his scumreads when I figured he would sit by and wait for me to respond or try to further a case against me seems very town. I am happy to call him town in this game.

Yes, my Informed Townie claim was a gambit. I do not have any special information about the setup. My extra tid bit of "I have more information" was to further the gambit more until more people had commented on it.

[Bulbazak]

Ryu, I went over everything in your last post in one form or another in my response. The only part I didn't was the part about where claiming that info could be legitimate. What you are failing to take into account in this case is that scum could easily know that information and use it to claim informed townie as a way to gain towncred. In reality, his claim proves absolutely nothing that we couldn't deduce ourselves. He didn't even have a specific number, instead giving himself an out with "at least". Even I could have made that assertion. At no point did Nacho say that the role Informed Townie couldn't exist. He said that an Informed Townie with only that sort of information couldn't exist. The fact that you've continued to push it as hard as you have, despite the evidence against such a view, is mindboggling to me.

[EddieFenix]

Hey Oversoul, answer me this.

Before the reveal of your "gambit", what reads did you have/gather?

[Baby Spice]

The last large I was in with only one killing role was getting towards three years ago.

As claims go, saying the sun rises in the morning is about the only thing safer.

[Nero Cain]

no. I'm not gonna vote for Nacho. Not now or ever.

why?

like I'm going to follow a silly fruit.

no. I'm not gonna vote for Nacho. Not now or ever.

Cop this guy.

Why?

You implied one of three things.

1. Dumb town who refuses to look into a read.
2. you have some kind form of PR that is linked with him.
3. You are scum with him.

I am heavily worried about this if you play in a way that makes you not easy to determine alignment, if you play anti-town, refusing to look into reads on a play, then I have to assume you are a solid candidate to be scum and should be copped.

You do know that I'm already voting Nacho, right?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Not true. On her home site, most indies have town-friendly wincons. Ergo indies aren't necessarily scum.

What does that site have anything to do with this site?

Because it directly influences her playstyle and mannerisms, which is something you're trying to twist into some kind of tell.

Looks like Beast (majiffy) abandoned the Beauty (mollie) in the hydra.

No, I'm here. Just incredibly busy.

1) Yes they are.
2) This is not an answer to the question "How was I reading as Independent?"
3) This is Mafiascum, not wherever you come from. Justifying your bad play with "that's how we play on (insert other site)" is not likely to be effective.

Psst

, your stupid is showing.

in other news I am not sure what to make of bulb's mancrush on majiffy I mean omg

Comes with the celebrity.

okay bulb is starting to down right freak me out

Lol.

You can freak out when you find out he has papered his walls with quotes of mine in various threads.

(Spoilered because it's long, but

DEAR GOD, FUCKING READ IT

.

Spoiler: PLEASE READ

Ooh, I'm going to keep a misrep tally! (If you guys want to know what I'm referencing, go read the MMBN4-6 LP on the LP Archive. You'll get it the instant you read it.)

The Om Case:

page 6

rofl was towntowntown

Lots of buddying from B&B, they can be scum with Ryu. Thor is probably town. So is Cephrir I think?

~

I've already said why this is a bad point. First, I couldn't remember any sort of buddy type interaction between Majiffy and Thor, so I went back to page 6 to check it out. Wouldn't you know, they don't really interact with each other, AT ALL. Majiffy says one thing on this page, and it has nothing to do with Thor.

Misrep Tally: 1

I never said it was on Page 6; as can be evidenced from my other posts, this meant I had REACHED Page 6.

Second, Majiffy is one of those players that NEVER buddies, mostly because of the type of player he is. I would have expected HD, as a more prominent player, to be familiar enough with Majiffy's meta to know that the buddying accusation is absurd.

Misrep Tally: 2

If Majiffy never buddies, EVER, explain to me how I was able to point out buddying spots in Post 288.

But Bulba

, you might say.

What if HD has never played with Majiffy before, and therefore, is not...

And no, agreeing with you is not a basis and not necessarily town motivated, and

I know you're a better player than that.

Nevermind. Continue with your case...

Misrep Tally: 3

In order for this to even be valid, I'd have to be in games where Majiffy and Thor were in a game

together

. This happened twice, and in both of them Majiffy was scum. (Thor was town in both but got culted in one)

You must not think very highly of Thor to be saying this like this.

Obvious sucking up to Thor since this was a completely useless comment unrelated to rofl's that he was responding to.

Yeah, you might have a point. I mean if it's unrelated to Rofl's brilliant...

I don't disagree with that.

Why is Cephrir town, I don't see it. He appears to be playing up a concept that makes little sense, while accusing me of the same, combining hypocrisy and also skeevy apparent intent in vote placement.
I want him dead.
What am I missing?

you're already blinded by beautyandthebeast trying to make you their pet townie

Actually, nevermind.

That post is both insulting to Thor and B&B. No wonder they made that comment. Not buddying.

Misrep Tally: 4

There is no insult in said post. Roflcopter makes an observation that B&TB is buddying with Thor. This is Mafia 101, not Preschool.

Would you also like to explain why Thor never expressed that he was insulted by this statement,

but in fact said it was entirely possible that B&TB WAS buddying him

?

Besides, if I was scum, I'd just kill him when it's opportune like I did last time I played scum against him. And I consider what you said an insult; you disputed his competency with that comment.

*snip*

If both parties of the Flowchart are voting it, you know it's probably scum.

More subtle, but still there, especially with that cute little white knight motivation of "Oh you insulted Thor how DARE you! RAWRGLEBARGLE"

Wow. That looks really bad.

Let's go back and look at the original:

though I do admit that I can see the reason behind the Cephir vote what I don't get though, is the Thor wagon.

Thor wagon is probably just a half-assed attempt at a pressure wagon. I'm not sold on OS either. You should vote Cephrir. If both parties of the Flowchart are voting it, you know it's probably scum.

You mean the original point had nothing to do with Rofl or Thor? It was about B&B and Kitty's scumread on Cephrir? What can this mean?

Misrep Tally: 6

Yes, I'm counting that as two misreps.

Here's why; it completely ignores the first part of my post (the one that quotes "And I consider what you said an insult; you disputed his competency with that comment.") which is fairly obviously what I was referring to, and uses the OTHER part of the post ("If both parties of the Flowchart are voting it, you know it's probably scum.") which is unrelated to said point, to act as if I had misrepped B&TB.

Okay I only read from page 10-15 because everything kinda went over my head but I support HD's B&B vote but not for the reasons that I read (don't ask me what my reasons are either, it's mainly gut ).
Also AA is pretty much town.
Everything else kinda went over my head.

I'm probably just going to watch a bit from the sidelines as the game goes on before I really step in.

Also HD is totes crampin mah style.

Urgh, smileys

~Pertayter

Translation from the Om head: "I'll be lurking over here if you need me."

I'm not counting this as a misrep, but this isn't actually scummy considering I've been controlling the hydra this entire time and contributing, so to say we're scum for not contributing doesn't even apply.

Inconsistency ho!
Firstly, leaving out the word mostly is not a strawman of any sort and saying so is pretty contrived, so you can kindly shut the fuck up.
Secondly, one post says your reads are largely based on whether people agree with you or not, but now only 2 are based on that concept.
Which is it?

1) If mostly, then your argument holds no water. Argument only stands if only/all, not mostly.
2) Follow the quotes. It was only

ever

about only two reads. Slandaar and AA9.

1) ...no, it still applies. If your reads are even mostly based on who agrees with you or not, they still are horrible. It's like saying 1 or 2 good reads makes up for 10 bad reads, it makes no sense.
2) Provably incorrect:

I realize you didn't ask me but I for one would like to hear what Slandaar and AA9 have done that makes them such shining beacons of towniness that they don't even get (weak)'s.

As far as I can tell, it looks like your list is based entirely on whether or not people agree with you.

It's largely based on whether or not people agree with me, yes.

Because I am town. Ergo if you agree with me, you're likely town.

So yes, you saying your list was largely based on whether or not people agreed with you was in response to Cephrir saying the same. Only the second half of said post talked about Slandaar and AA9 specifically.

~

HD calls this an inconsistency and seeks to prove it with bolded phrase. Ignores the sentence before it asking about the 2 reads specifically.

Misrep Tally: 7 (Hey guys, we're up to 7 misreps IN ONE POST. If you aren't voting Bulbazak yet, you now have some 'splainin' to do.)

The word "it" fairly obviously refers to the list, so B&TB is

clearly responding to the sentence I bolded.

The second part of the post

clearly referred to the point made about his AA9 and Slandaar reads.

IMPORTANT: THE WORD "IT" IS SINGULAR AND CANNOT MEAN "2 SPECIFIC TOWN READS I HAVE".

This is 1st grade reading comprehension folks.

-snip-

So by my count, in this post, you've declared 3 scumreads, one of which is "scummy as hell", another of which deserves an FoS. Where's your vote?

Went back to look at Kitty's post. She doesn't outright declare ANY reads, instead only asking questions or clarifications from 3 people. She does call Cephrir scummy because of some recent posts, but she FoS's him for it. Where did you learn to read?

Misrep Tally: 10

Misreps Amethyst Kitty

2 times

AND myself. That counts as 3 misreps.

And just to prove it...

@Fenix:

So what did you learn after catching up? Because voting him without giving reasons or thoughts is quite -

well scummy as hell.

Then you call out Nero for doing the same thing. >.>

Scummy as hell.

@B&B:

Mollie answer my question or else I will have to go extreme measures. (You do not want this)

Strongly implied scumread.

I'm not liking this whole; "If I'm correct then Nero was silenced."

The whole PR or even fishing for information is scummy as hell.

So

FoS: Cephir.

SCUMREAD THAT DESERVED AN FOS.

So that's three scumreads, dawg.

Leaning scum, because I don't think you're that stupid.

Yes because calling someone out on doing something scummy is definitely stupid and scummy.
Mmm hmm.

Nice strawman. I called you scum, because I don't believe you to be stupid. The 2 were never connected.

Misrep Tally: 12

Calls on word semantics to call this a strawman; counting this as 2.

You called the action scummy or stupid. This therefore implies I am scummy or stupid. You saying that calling it scummy or stupid isn't a connection is fucking ridiculous.

omg HD my skype hasn't received your message
I'm probably not going to be completely on the same page as HD until we can get something going (hooray for planning ahead ).
So it'll probably be fine tomorrow.

~Pertayter

Already stated how useless this post was and that it gave you a reason to lurk later.

Except the hydra isn't lurking.

Look. A useless post.

Is there any way you can actually make a decent attack on our slot at all this game?
I mean seriously if you want to attack a post like that you might as well attack anybody declaring V/LA in the future.
Also some of your posts are useless too bby

Deflection.

Misrep Tally: 13

Om points out something legitimately scummy about Bulbazak, Bulb deflects it by calling it a deflection. (Ironic, right?)

Second, the difference between someone declaring V/LA and your post is that you essentially said "I can't talk to HD. Not going to say anything else.". There was no point in saying any of this, as you could just as easily have messaged HD via PM. This was posting for posting's sake.

I don't even know how you managed to get 'Not going to say anything' from 'We might not be on the same page for at least a day'. At least get your facts right.

More deflection via semantics.

Misrep Tally: 14

Even more fucking ironic considering

Bulbazak is the one resorting to semantics here.

Right now is my pregame thanks. I hope you realise I've openly stated that I've barely read any of the game. However I don't particularly need to. Also :meta reasons: useless posts are a frequent pastime of mine.

Giving himself another excuse to active lurk.

And yet again, I point out this hydra is not active lurking and that one head not posting doesn't make a hydra scum.

Fucking lol. Please, tell me why we're even scum in the first place. Your arguments aren't even scumtells.
Useless posting isn't a scummy thing unless it's done repeatedly (and I've only been in this game for a day). Informing people about things like activity and potential dissonance isn't a scummy thing either, it's just being fucking informative. Attacking someone who is easily perceived as anti-town doesn't even say why the fuck we're scum. If someone is perceived as anti-town, you'd vote them, otherwise you won't get anywhere. Just because they have a history of looking anti-town doesn't mean they aren't scum. Your chainsaw defense of B&B is meta-related without any evidence to support your statements. Not to mention that you've tried to discredit us multiple times too....

~Pertayter

Flailing.

Misrep Tally: 15

Another deflection of his scumminess being called out.

Also I'd kinda like to know why I'm definitely scum compared to OS when:
According to you, I'm scum because: Useless posting and attacking someone you think is town for meta reasons.
According to you, OS is scum because: Bad knee-jerk reaction to RVS vote, backpedaling, contradicting claims, suspicions on trying to use claim to gain townie status and he hasn't said very much at all.
(Note: I don't exactly support the OS wagon right now (nor do I entirely oppose it), this is just my interpretation of his reasons for suspecting either of us)

Like seriously wtf? If you're going to attack OS for a bad knee-jerk reaction to a vote then I'm pretty much going to do the same for you, only in your case there wasn't even a vote before you started reacting terribly (as evidenced by your P-EDIT).

~Pertayter

Explained why this was bad. Tries to deflect attention off them and onto OS, who they have repeatedly called town.

Misrep Tally: 16

Calls this a deflection of attention to OS when Om

specifically says

he isn't particularly interested in the OS wagon. He's also calling this a deflection when Om is clearly using OS as an example of Bulbazak being hypocritical and NOT as wanting to wagon OS.

In conclusion: Misrepping,

Misrep Tally: 17

deflecting,

Misrep Tally: 18

setting up reasons to active lurk,

Not a misrep, but not scummy and only coming from one head

and outright lying.

Misrep Tally: 20

This deserves special mention.

Nowhere in Bulbazak's case does he state that we are outright lying about anything.

This counts as two since he misrepped us AND his own case.

This post is scumtrash.

More in the next post.

[Thor665]

I am full of uber fail.
I don't think I have ever actually posted a prod dodge post before...but this is basically that.
Don't hate me.
Content will come on the weekend, pinkie swearz.

<<< *sigh* Does

anyone

read my rules? >_<
I put hard work into making them look nice. You don't know how many revisions they went through before I got them!
And despite all that work, people apparently STILL can't read them. :/ >>>

[Thor665]

And I suppose by 'basically' I mean 'explicitly'.

[Red Ryu]

Ryu, I went over everything in your last post in one form or another in my response. The only part I didn't was the part about where claiming that info could be legitimate. What you are failing to take into account in this case is that scum could easily know that information and use it to claim informed townie as a way to gain towncred. In reality, his claim proves absolutely nothing that we couldn't deduce ourselves. He didn't even have a specific number, instead giving himself an out with "at least". Even I could have made that assertion. At no point did Nacho say that the role Informed Townie couldn't exist. He said that an Informed Townie with only that sort of information couldn't exist. The fact that you've continued to push it as hard as you have, despite the evidence against such a view, is mindboggling to me.

No they really wouldn't.

Scum may have an information advantage but they do not know everything town or potentially other factions have. that fact remains Nacho did not have this knowledge at the time that OS was lying so his reactions are still legitimate tells.

And no, we won't know about the kills til we know at end game. If anyone tries to say they know how many people can kill by D2 they should go back to playing newbies. You can't ignore other possibilities, even more so in a game this large.

Nacho did infact say he did not believe his role was legit with that info, which I made the error of posting and you thankfully keep ignoring like an idiot.

He pushed it that far off a nulltell, when he had no knowledge that his info was not legitimate,

that he refused to consider OS was town at all.

The bolded is my biggest issue, town does not do that so easily. Especially just because he claimed informed townie, otherwise he would have unvoted or at least said it was a possibility. The fact is he never did this.