NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[thezmon221]

Would you mind providing a case for me? Unless 1422 is the case. I'll go and read back over his ISO again for you (as much as I'd hate to read more right now), but I'm not totally convinced. I have him only at null, and probably one of the scummier nulls, because like I said, I had him pegged as scum for a while. It's only recently that I changed my read on him from scum to null, and even that isn't a big jump for a lot of these reads. I did contemplate this aspect:

I'm actually thinking that the scum AREN'T bussing since we have people like Thor, AA9, and CTD in this thread scumming it up and trying to actively prevent the nacho lynch

as a part of the reason why Nacho is a good wagon, but I also contemplated that there are 24 people in this game, so I figured anywhere from 6-8 scum. Account for that the Red Ryu lynch, which is, assuming Nacho is scum, most likely a counter-wagon attempt by his scumbuddies (which is partly why I left, but also because of my contrasting read). Why did he not join the wagon, as there is a case that he could follow along there. Instead, he went for Desperado, who was rather in the shadows of the game. Seems like a strange way to counter-wagon as scum.

While I admit that I don't have too much experience with Nacho, as I've only played 2 or 3 games with him, I don't really like to trust metas too much. A common theme for me is that if I have a scum/town meta on a person, it's going to be a null unless I REALLY know that person (as in, probably at least 7-8 games with them with varying alignments).

Spoiler: <<< Mod-edited-votecount >>>

Nachomamma8 - 7 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Amethyst Kitty, Slandaar, Desperado, BeautyAndTheBeast)
Red Ryu - 4 (Oversoul, Thor665, Bulbazak, Syryana)
fuzzybutternut - 2 (thezmon221, Cephrir)
Bulbazak - 1 (fuzzybutternut)
Cephrir - 1 (Baby Spice)
DLG - 1 (CrashTextDummie)
ArcAngel9 - 1 (DLG)
Desperado - 1 (Nachomamma8)
BeautyAndTheBeast - 1 (Kublai Khan)
Bacde - 1 (Om the Destroyer)

Not Voting - 4 (Seanald, Hanzo_5, ArcAngel9, EddieFenix)

[Bacde]

WOAH WOAH WOAH

24 people is 5 scum, 6 AT MOST

where are you getting 7-8?

[thezmon221]

are you classifying SKs or arsons or whatever as scum?

If you didn't know, I play on another site, which is where I get the majority of my experience. Over there, we follow the 25-33 rule, so 33% of 24 is 8. I figured that was our worst case scenario, but it was probably more like 6.

[Nero Cain]

18/6? 16/8? Does it really matter? You two agree on 6. Lets kill the 6 first.

[Bacde]

Instead, he went for Desperado, who was rather in the shadows of the game. Seems like a strange way to counter-wagon as scum.

Would you have expected scum-nacho to have blatantly voted for his counter-wagon?

...Seriously?

You promise you've played with nacho? Because that is just something scum-nacho would never do

In fact, if he voted for his counterwagon, I'd see it as a TOWNtell because voting for a counterwagon is generally regarded as scummy (which nacho knows), yet if nacho actually believed his counterwagon to be scum and was confident enough to vote it I'd have been somewhat taken aback and perhaps have reconsidered my read

[Bacde]

are you classifying SKs or arsons or whatever as scum?

If you didn't know, I play on another site, which is where I get the majority of my experience. Over there, we follow the 25-33 rule, so 33% of 24 is 8. I figured that was our worst case scenario, but it was probably more like 6.

on MS the low number is more like 20% instead of 25%

[Oversoul]

I'll try to post tonight, been really busy

sorry guys

[Bacde]

1422 is probably the best iteration of the case against nacho as of right now

other than that I'ma keep pushing it because nacho is going to be the lynch today unless someone scumslips

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

One, I think? Hence "I get the feeling".

this is the first time you have really looked scummy to me

the "i get the feeling" doesn't quite justify the reasoning especially that you did not justify what you meant by a "thor" tell. is it scummy or town

[Cephrir]

Are you seriously suggesting this is a bus of Nacho before Nacho has even flipped? Not to mention that anyone would ever bus this hard? =/
The Nacho wagon does have a lot of townreads on it, and the RR wagon really has the opposite. That's the most important point in its favor for me, but I'm still not convinced. What I am convinced of is that most of the voters on that wagon believe what they're saying, and maybe that should be enough reason for me to get on it as an admittedly bad scumhunter, but it still isn't. That's just not how I vote.

I was going to vote fuzzy eventually, but if there's going to be another vote on him then the second makes enough to actually be pressure. I probably should have voted earlier, I suppose.

I like all the replacements thus far but their day-to-day play will potentially be more telling. I always think catch-up posts are town unless they have everything ass-backwards (see: Syry).

@Mollie: I was saying it seems like a playstyle issue.

[thezmon221]

You promise you've played with nacho? Because that is just something scum-nacho would never do

I think all of my games have been town with him. If there was a scum game, then it was at least a year and a half ago. I understand that one-sided meta is bad, but I could at least pick out something that was... off key.

on MS the low number is more like 20% instead of 25%

Duly noted.

1422 is probably the best iteration of the case against nacho as of right now

Alright. Like I said, I'll read over his ISO, as when I was reading the almost 60 pages I didn't specifically target any one person for further analysis (with the exception of the recent fuzzy vote, as he is my strongest, so I had to go back and make sure I wasn't putting words into his mouth), so we'll see.

PEDIT:

Are you seriously suggesting this is a bus of Nacho before Nacho has even flipped? Not to mention that anyone would ever bus this hard? =/
The Nacho wagon does have a lot of townreads on it, and the RR wagon really has the opposite. That's the most important point in its favor for me, but I'm still not convinced. What I am convinced of is that most of the voters on that wagon believe what they're saying, and maybe that should be enough reason for me to get on it as an admittedly bad scumhunter, but it still isn't. That's just not how I vote.

Who is bussing Nacho? If you're saying that the RR wagon is a bus, then we have greatly differing definitions.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Are you seriously suggesting this is a bus of Nacho before Nacho has even flipped? Not to mention that anyone would ever bus this hard? =/
The Nacho wagon does have a lot of townreads on it, and the RR wagon really has the opposite. That's the most important point in its favor for me, but I'm still not convinced. What I am convinced of is that most of the voters on that wagon believe what they're saying, and maybe that should be enough reason for me to get on it as an admittedly bad scumhunter, but it still isn't. That's just not how I vote.

I was going to vote fuzzy eventually, but if there's going to be another vote on him then the second makes enough to actually be pressure. I probably should have voted earlier, I suppose.

I like all the replacements thus far but their day-to-day play will potentially be more telling. I always think catch-up posts are town unless they have everything ass-backwards

(see: Syry).

@Mollie: I was saying it seems like a playstyle issue.

wrt the bold: which ones of hanz posts do you like cos I think they are god awful. like hanz posts are ass backwards how are you missing this

[Baby Spice]

VOTE: fuzzy until he provides some legitimate reads and I had better like them when he does.

This makes me more happy with my vote.


Thez: Haven't been behind in a while, well more than timezone/game pace dictates.

VOTE: fuzzy until he provides some legitimate reads and I had better like them when he does.

if you literally have a townread on EVERYONE on the nacho wagon, its because nacho is scum and the scum don't want to bus their best player

Actually I have scum reads of one degree or another on four people on the Nacho wagon.

The Nacho wagon took off after Thor joined the RR wagon. If anything Nacho looks like a strong counter to RR. It's even lead by RR, something BCade says is scummy.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

for instance cephir this post:

@B&TB

Fair enough. In my experience the mafia would rather have the town pointing fingers than having a unified trust in individuals.

Thus my line of questioning sees what you think in comparison to me.

FOS the shit out of this

Put ur damn finger away.

If your to busy to question someone your suspicious of then dont say your suspicious.

Its more fluff. How about u try to get a read on me instead of tunneling thor. FoS for asking questions about ur weak points. Stop making weak points.

Anyways for now ur just as null as everyone else. D1 is lame lets lynch someone.

<<< Fixed quote tag. >>>

I mean I asked him a question in my post and he didn't answer it and is once again calling my posts "fluffy" I mean omg

this was my question:

like out of all of what I said you cherry picked a minor point and are trying to say I am scummy cos you think that that

one

point is useless and this somehow sums up the content of my entire play?

^^^ I mean this is a pretty pertinent question since I am directly asking about his reasoning about his case on me. and he managed to avoid it entirely and tried to imply that I was not engaging him, lol

I actually feel that he is the best lynch for the day I mean jesus

[Bacde]

Are you seriously suggesting this is a bus of Nacho before Nacho has even flipped?

fyi your scumhunting is bad because you have bad reading comprehension skills

I was suggesting the

exact opposite

. I was suggesting that NO ONE is bussing scumcho

[Bacde]

The Nacho wagon took off after Thor joined the RR wagon. If anything Nacho looks like a strong counter to RR. It's even lead by RR, something BCade says is scummy.

What did I say was scummy?

God damnit are you putting words in my mouth as well?!

[Bacde]

Are you seriously suggesting this is a bus of Nacho before Nacho has even flipped? Not to mention that anyone would ever bus this hard? =/
The Nacho wagon does have a lot of townreads on it, and the RR wagon really has the opposite. That's the most important point in its favor for me, but I'm still not convinced. What I am convinced of is that most of the voters on that wagon believe what they're saying, and maybe that should be enough reason for me to get on it as an admittedly bad scumhunter, but it still isn't. That's just not how I vote.

I was going to vote fuzzy eventually, but if there's going to be another vote on him then the second makes enough to actually be pressure. I probably should have voted earlier, I suppose.

I like all the replacements thus far but their day-to-day play will potentially be more telling. I always think catch-up posts are town unless they have everything ass-backwards

(see: Syry).

@Mollie: I was saying it seems like a playstyle issue.

wrt the bold: which ones of hanz posts do you like cos I think they are god awful. like hanz posts are ass backwards how are you missing this

yeah hanz posts do suck I'ma run an ISO

[Bacde]

actually I just reread BS's ISO and nothing really sticks out to me except this post:

Hmm.

I decided to check Nacho's posting history just to see what was happening, and spotted him browsing this forum.

Make of that what you will.

which I can't imagine making if I was town

@bacde

Care to clarify why town shouldnt do that? I dont see a problem with whistle blowing on the lurkers...

Does it look to you like Baby Spice was "whistle blowing" or does it look like Baby Spice was just throwing shit to see what sticks?

[Bacde]

I'm wondering if Hanzo is just hard to understand which might be the case

either way I'm happier w/ a nacho lynch

[thezmon221]

The Nacho wagon took off after Thor joined the RR wagon. If anything Nacho looks like a strong counter to RR. It's even lead by RR, something BCade says is scummy.

*groan*

I went through this thread too fast. Give me an hour and all the events will be sorted out with me (sorry, I gotta eat too).

PEDIT:

mollie and Majiffy, I keep mixing up your posts, and it gets on my nerves.

PEDIT2:

yeah hanz posts do suck I'ma run an ISO

Best way to start is literally by recognizing that he said my reads list at the halfway mark of my reading was fluff, but providing nothing valuable himself.

PEDIT3: Damnit, stop posting when I'm trying to post.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

I'm wondering if Hanzo is just hard to understand which might be the case

either way I'm happier w/ a nacho lynch

bc, if you get a chance reread my responses to hanz and how he totally dodged them

I don't get why you think "he is just too hard to understand" and that is the problem and not that his case on us sucks with like a whole truckload of scumtells

[Baby Spice]

The Nacho wagon took off after Thor joined the RR wagon. If anything Nacho looks like a strong counter to RR. It's even lead by RR, something BCade says is scummy.

What did I say was scummy?

God damnit are you putting words in my mouth as well?!

Thought it was you that said it. Will check when I get to a computer.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

From just what I've read so far, you've been aggressively attacking anyone who disagrees and/or suspects you. Which is a survival strategy, not a scum-hunting one.

It's also an effective two-pronged strategy for scum to take. You become unlikely to be lynched Day 1 because townies don't have enough confidence in their reads to match your aggression and later in the game you've posted so much that it's too much work to build a case on you.

Congratulations, you figured out how Majiffy plays regardless of alignment!

My attacks garner reactions. Which give me accurate reads. So it is

entirely

scum-hunting.

Your argument that it is "an effective two-pronged strategy for scum to take" is moot because it holds the same strength of a strategy as town.

So from my POV this Nacho wagon consists of only townreads and it's on someone who isn't exactly a scumread from my.
Something is afoot here :/

Yeah, probably your "Nacho ... isn't exactly a scumread". Herp derp Occam's Razor.

mollie and Majiffy, I keep mixing up your posts, and it gets on my nerves.

How

.

I agree with Mollie on Hanzo as well.

[thezmon221]

mollie and Majiffy, I keep mixing up your posts, and it gets on my nerves.

How

.

Because I keep forgetting about the capitalize stuff. Then a while after I remember.

Okay, so I read through Nacho's ISO and am not overly impressed with Bacde's read. However, something I want to address:

Nacho, why did you post 5 analyses, and then wait another... 26-27 hours before posting the rest?

Yeah, probably your "Nacho ... isn't exactly a scumread". Herp derp Occam's Razor.

Honestly, I HAVE been considering that, and it will probably be a large basis for my vote in the event I DO vote him. (Yes, I know this wasn't aimed at me)

[Bacde]

Okay, so I read through Nacho's ISO and am not overly impressed with Bacde's read. However, something I want to address:

Well I'm not impressed with you thinking scum-nacho would have voted for his counterwagon as opposed to just uselessly moving his vote to a useless place and not pushing it

I do like how you are thinking out this game for yourself though, and definitely think you are town