Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

I hate this town. Don't expect me to post after this.

Pffft. You're rather sensitive for a "Bad Cop."

bbmolla isn't a good bad cop. not sure why he's trying to act like he is one

[hapahauli]

Furthermore, did you not see what your own partner posted to the effect? The one you so idolize?

she also said that we should not be lynching him.

The point I'm trying to make is that your argument about "don't lynch PR's Day 1" doesn't make sense in this case.

Your partner acknowledges this full well, yet you do not.

Secondly, I replied to your other-half's rationale already:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4958123
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4958148

Your parter doesn't want to lynch ac1983fan because he has doubts about AC's allignment. However all his reasons don't hold much water in my eyes.

Furthermore, you don't want to lynch AC solely because of the "PR Day 1" policy, which clearly isn't valid.

so yeah for the most part we are on the same page, so kindly move your vote to nic

thanks

Kindly move your vote to AC. Thanks.

[hapahauli]

I hate this town. Don't expect me to post after this.

Pffft. You're rather sensitive for a "Bad Cop."

bbmolla isn't a good bad cop. not sure why he's trying to act like he is one

*shrug*

But honestly, I don't understand why he hates this town all of a sudden.

The last 48 hours have been

fantastic

. It has been a wonderful shitfest, and we've gotten more information of use and of value than the previous 10 days combined. Whoever ends up flipping today (and however they flip), I'm going to have a lot to work with if I end up surviving the night.

Embrace it. Cherish it. These arguments are maddening, but they're fantastic for town.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

He probably hates it cause people are still trying to lynch AC..

:shrug:

-J

[hapahauli]

Your reasons for not voting him are still nonsensical, regardless about how much you or BadCop hate it.

[hapahauli]

It sounds like you'd be perfectly alright with lynching AC if he claimed VT, correct?

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

It sounds like you'd be perfectly alright with lynching AC if he claimed VT, correct?

Correct

[hapahauli]

It sounds like you'd be perfectly alright with lynching AC if he claimed VT, correct?

Correct

So that implies that the

only

reason that you are objecting to the AC lynch is because of his claim.

Can you talk to me about this "policy" of yours a bit more? The way I see it, you don't lynch PR claims on Day 1 for the following reasons:
1) Sometimes it is possible to verify their allignment later on in the game.
2) It can "force" scum into sub-optimal decisions.

The problem is, I can't find any compelling reason for why the policy applies in the case of this current claim (1-shot doctor).
1) It won't be possible to verify his claim later, and outing a cop to do so is not a good long-term play.
2) The "suboptimal" decisions that scum could make here (NK'ing AC for example) are very unrealistic. If scum have a roleblocker, they can nullify his role without killing him. Secondly, I don't think it's realistic at all for scum to NK ACfan (if he's town) because he would be an almost sure-fire lynch for D2.

So what are the

specific

reasons for your stance in this game?

[hapahauli]

Basically, a policy isn't grounds for an opinion unless you can justify it in the specific situation.

I want to try and sit down and see it from your point of view right now. Because I really just don't understand why you are holding the stance that you are.

[Daemon385]

Well, the first one was to see what distinction hp was making between Toomai and I, so that one doesn't have anything to do with me thinking Toomai was scum.

After Toomai's post voting me the first time I was suspicious of him. Like I've said, I think he's scum.

The second was to see why dys called out Toomai in 117 and then said nothing about it from then on. I was trying to see if there was a connection between the two of them.

Two quick question for you Nic:

1.Why do you feel/think Toomai is scum?
2.Do you feel like you found any connection between the two at all?

[Daemon385]

The one problem I have personally with ACfan currently that he came out with his post with all that it had and left it at that. He hasn't given any more reason for people to change their vote or anything. It is almost like he is just sitting on his role claim and hoping that it doesn't get him lynched. Now he could either be very comfy with that because he knows he is town or because he knows he is scum letting his role claim sail him into another day while we all pick away at each other. It is only speculation but I feel it is a bit odd he has nothing else seeing as he was just L-1 away from being lynched. Now that he has claimed role he is just sitting back relaxing.

[hapahauli]

^ My thoughts exactly

I'd expect a little more emotion from him ya know? His responses to my case are very clean and manufactured, and that's one of the reasons I'm still suspicious of AC. Ya think he'd display a litte more emotion/frustration having gone from 0 votes to L-1 overnight. Instead, he's very emotionally reserved.

[ac1983fan]

^ My thoughts exactly

I'd expect a little more emotion from him ya know? His responses to my case are very clean and manufactured, and that's one of the reasons I'm still suspicious of AC. Ya think he'd display a litte more emotion/frustration having gone from 0 votes to L-1 overnight. Instead, he's very emotionally reserved.

I mean, I'm aware my role is not very useful, and I've been lynched D1 or D2 as a townie previously in other games without being concerned much about it. I think your case is based on totally wrong reasoning but I've explained that as much as I can, there's obviously no changing your mind and so I'm not going to waste my time defending myself further. Moreover, I've cast the vote against who I think is the best Day 1 lynch here, and most of the past couple of pages have been debates between my town reads over whether or not I should be lynched, so I haven't had much to add.

[hapahauli]

^ My thoughts exactly

I'd expect a little more emotion from him ya know? His responses to my case are very clean and manufactured, and that's one of the reasons I'm still suspicious of AC. Ya think he'd display a litte more emotion/frustration having gone from 0 votes to L-1 overnight. Instead, he's very emotionally reserved.

I mean, I'm aware my role is not very useful, and I've been lynched D1 or D2 as a townie previously in other games without being concerned much about it. I think your case is based on totally wrong reasoning but I've explained that as much as I can, there's obviously no changing your mind and so I'm not going to waste my time defending myself further. Moreover, I've cast the vote against who I think is the best Day 1 lynch here, and most of the past couple of pages have been debates between my town reads over whether or not I should be lynched, so I haven't had much to add.

Tell me exactly again. What are the

specific

justifications you have for voting Varsoon?

Why do none of your other scum-reads compel your vote?

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Basically, a policy isn't grounds for an opinion unless you can justify it in the specific situation.

I want to try and sit down and see it from your point of view right now. Because I really just don't understand why you are holding the stance that you are.

In my many years of mafia I have seen town PRs get lynched day 1, even been lynched day 1 as a PR. It takes the wind out of town's sails. It's not optimal play to take a gamble on day 1.

[hapahauli]

Basically, a policy isn't grounds for an opinion unless you can justify it in the specific situation.

I want to try and sit down and see it from your point of view right now. Because I really just don't understand why you are holding the stance that you are.

In my many years of mafia I have seen town PRs get lynched day 1, even been lynched day 1 as a PR. It takes the wind out of town's sails. It's not optimal play to take a gamble on day 1.

Idunno man. Nothing like a controversy to start discussion.

But I don't know what's such a "gamble" about this. Firstly, losing a 1-shot doctor isn't a big deal. Secondly, he has a pretty darn high chance of flipping red (as if I haven't posted enough on this already).

[hapahauli]

And honestly, there was nothing in this town's "sails" to begin with. Everyone's been lurktastic save a handful of people.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Last I checked 50% isn't higher or lower than 50%

[Scott Brosius]

post_id=4959324 time=1368734632 user_id=10128]

Well I guess I'll go back to where I was then.

Vote: NicCage

That said, 1-Shot Doctor seems like a really weird claim to me. It's weak and unusual enough that it doesn't look like something that would be faked, but in the same way it's far easier to explain why he's not being killed (since if the claim is true the Mafia probably would like to keep him around for a while to keep suspicion high, as opposed to a full Doctor claim which would make everyone expect instant death).

You have me convinced. I felt there was going to be at least one scum in the set of not-common-posters and the evidence seems legit.

Vote: ac1983fan

Both opportunistic, weak votes. I still don't understand why we're prioritizing NC over Toomai.

agree with this 100%. This has been the scummiest behavior I have seen yet. The timing of these votes is too convenient... jumping right in as it takes off, and jumping ship before it completely sinks.

I agree with the no PR d1 lynch group, and I still don't see NC scum. Acfan remaining alive certainly makes night decisions more difficult on scum if he's telling the truth.

There seems to be support for this wagon lingering but nobody wants to take that first step.

unvote, vote: toomai

[hapahauli]

Last I checked 50% isn't higher or lower than 50%

What on earth does this mean?

Scott, where on earth have you been?

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

You said there's a high chance he's scum. That's incorrect. There is exactly 50% chance he's some sort of scum, and 50% he's town. Unless there is 3rd part that changes things.

Actually if we are being more specific there is a actually greater chance that 1 player out of 13 is town.

So the odds are we leave him alive at least 1 day

I'm kind of frustrated about another game so I'm done in here tonight. I'll let dashie post. If she wants.

-J

[hapahauli]

You said there's a high chance he's scum. That's incorrect. There is exactly 50% chance he's some sort of scum, and 50% he's town. Unless there is 3rd part that changes things.

Actually if we are being more specific there is a actually greater chance that 1 player out of 13 is town.

So the odds are we leave him alive at least 1 day

I'm kind of frustrated about another game so I'm done in here tonight. I'll let dashie post. If she wants.

-J

That doesn't make very much sense at all. Percentages are based on

analysis

, and not simply

possibilities

.

Under your logic, I could just say that NC has a 75% chance of flipping town, because that's the ratio of town to scum =/

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

I don't always make sense.

all I am saying is there is no harm leaving him alive another day. The speed of his wagon alone makes me think he is town.

Dyslexia, Demon, Toomai, GCBC, Varsoon in a span of 8 hours.

Dyslexia reads town to me
Demon - looks scummy
Toomai - REALLY scummy
GCBC - Town
Varsoon - Town

hp leaves shows up and asks for a claim but immediately realizes the speed and votes toomai - hp is probably town

my problem is I can't imagine Nic/Toomai are scum together, that would just be some super bussing if you ask me.

Varsoon is also probably town because when the wagon was 5 for him and 5 for Nic, he votes Scott. Scum would vote the counter wagon to himself (unless they are scum together, doubtful)

looking at the VCs

Nic and Var at both at 5 - Var and GCBC vote Scott, this puts Var back to 4 votes as GC was voting Var
Toomai then votes to put Nic at L-1 for essentially no reason at all.
I unvote but revote nic - thought I saw a Scott/toomai connection but could not verify anything
post 363 - toomai does answer my question explaining his read on Nic, with links to post. That takes effort that I am less inclined to expect from scum

this is when all hell breaks lose with the AC counter wagon.

Nic is the correct lynch. If Nic flips scum I actually like Hap as his potential partner, since Nic was almost lynched and he is still fighting the Nic lynch.

anyway

that's my .02

OH and Scott gets scum points for trying to start a new wagon so close to deadline, because as of 468 nobody was voting toomai and we are 1 day out.

lynch Nic not AC please. Toomai is actually probably town

-J

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

we are about 18 hours until deadline

[Varsoon]

Not so sure about the AC wagon but keeping a vote there because NOLYNCH is the worst thing.

There's scum between Hapa and GCBC.
Too bad I consider Hapa to be my townboss.

I like Hapa's 477 too much to vote him.