Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[hapahauli]

@ GBGC

I have no concept on how that quote by Toomai is scummy at all.

@ J

AND hap also gains scum points for also trying to start a new wagon after I announce we have only 18 hours until deadline.

Nic is at L-1 now, so he needs to claim ASAP, like his very next post.

Well if you want to give the most active player in the game scum-points, you can do whatever floats your boat. I did say that I was going to remain active to make sure there was a lynch today, but that seemingly went over your head.

Regardless, we now have more time, so please entertain SB a bit more than you are.

[hapahauli]

post_id=4960851 time=1368786195 user_id=10128]Hapa I may be willing to join you on the SB wagon if you elaborate your case a bit.

There's very little to elaborate on really.

The guy's lack of anything over the last few days is pretty scummy.

I just bombed the thread with suspicion against acfan over the last few days. The most natural thing to want to do is to comment on all of that, since it has been the focus of discussion. Yet not only does Scott completely

avoid

the topic... he goes and starts a new wagon.

So objectively, what is his goal? He says he wants to kick off a new wagon, but he neither puts in the time nor the effort to push it through. Furthermore, given his activity, it looks like he was planning just to plop his vote down and inactive until past the original 18 hour deadline.

------
As a last bit, he's been lightly defending NC, but for someone who doesn't want NC lynched, he's not putting very much effort in not getting NC lynched.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

@ GBGC

I have no concept on how that quote by Toomai is scummy at all.

@ J

AND hap also gains scum points for also trying to start a new wagon after I announce we have only 18 hours until deadline.

Nic is at L-1 now, so he needs to claim ASAP, like his very next post.

Well if you want to give the most active player in the game scum-points, you can do whatever floats your boat. I did say that I was going to remain active to make sure there was a lynch today, but that seemingly went over your head.

Regardless, we now have more time, so please entertain SB a bit more than you are.

being the most active doesn't = automatically town

remaining active or not, you already tried 1 counter wagon to nic, now you want to do a 2nd.

explain why you don't want Nic lynched and you are trying so hard to get anyone else but him lynched

[GoodCopBadCop]

@Daemon

- It's scummy because he wants NC to claim and then support another 'successful' waggon on SB (which would lead to another claim). That would mean 3 claims in one day which would only benefit scum.

- GC

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

that's why we lynch Nic and sort the rest out tomorrow.

nobody has made a case for why Nic should not be lynched. If someone wants to convince me why he's the wrong lynch, by all means I am an open minded person.

-J

[GoodCopBadCop]

Nah I'm good w/ lynching Nic

-bc

[hapahauli]

J - aren't you the least bit skeptical that NC has been under suspicion all game? The way this wagon has formed IMO is even worse than that of AC or others - it has been this slow, acquiescing wagon in a lurky town. Wagons like that don't magically appear on scum.

Furthermore, pretty much everyone wants to kill NC. And if people aren't voting NC, they're voting someone else but are seemingly doing nothing to stop the NC lynch.

[hapahauli]

@Daemon

- It's scummy because he wants NC to claim and then support another 'successful' waggon on SB (which would lead to another claim). That would mean 3 claims in one day which would only benefit scum.

- GC

I suppose it could objectively be considered scummy, but I find that scum are generally a lot more subtle about stuff like that.

I think you're blowing that quote of his out of proportion.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

am I concerned that his wagon was like pulling teeth and took the entire deadline to finally get him into a position to be lynched, when there was AT LEAST 2 counter wagons and now a 3rd trying to form?

NO, I am not concerned about that at all.

scum wagons, especially day 1 are damn near impossible to achieve, and this one fits the bill to a T.

but that didn't answer my question really.

explain why you don't want Nic lynched and you are trying so hard to get anyone else but him lynched

[hapahauli]

@ GBGC

I have no concept on how that quote by Toomai is scummy at all.

@ J

AND hap also gains scum points for also trying to start a new wagon after I announce we have only 18 hours until deadline.

Nic is at L-1 now, so he needs to claim ASAP, like his very next post.

Well if you want to give the most active player in the game scum-points, you can do whatever floats your boat. I did say that I was going to remain active to make sure there was a lynch today, but that seemingly went over your head.

Regardless, we now have more time, so please entertain SB a bit more than you are.

being the most active doesn't = automatically town

No, but being active and providing almost half of the town's scum-hunting should pretty clearly show you what my motives are. I'd be impressed at myself if I were scum, but alas no.

remaining active or not, you already tried 1 counter wagon to nic, now you want to do a 2nd.

Why are you assuming NC is flipping scum?

Because otherwise, how does this make sense at all? I'm pushing my scumreads therefore I'm scummy?

explain why you don't want Nic lynched and you are trying so hard to get anyone else but him lynched

Answered this above, just wanted to address the first half.

[hapahauli]

am I concerned that his wagon was like pulling teeth and took the entire deadline to finally get him into a position to be lynched, when there was AT LEAST 2 counter wagons and now a 3rd trying to form?

NO, I am not concerned about that at all.

scum wagons, especially day 1 are damn near impossible to achieve, and this one fits the bill to a T.

but that didn't answer my question really.

explain why you don't want Nic lynched and you are trying so hard to get anyone else but him lynched

I did answer your question. I'm extremely skeptical about the circumstances in which this wagon formed.

And "trying so hard to get ANYONE else but him lynched" is a gross misinterpretation of my play. I have

two

scumreads over NC at this point. NC is a pure lurker lynch, and I'd rather lynch someone who's play I find scummy. Hence I will push my cases to the best I can.

And let me make this clear - I will vote NC before the deadline if there is no other way we can see a flip. However I still have many doubts about that wagon of his.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

No, but being active and providing almost half of the town's scum-hunting should pretty clearly show you what my motives are. I'd be impressed at myself if I were scum, but alas no.

"Hey guys, look at me being all active and scum hunting. I can't possibly be scum"

ever heard of "hiding in plain sight"? just sayin...

I don't know if nic is going to flip scum, it's possible he flips town but I seriously doubt it. Usually wagons on a townie do not take this much effort, and they almost certainly don't generate multiple counter wagons.

If i had to guess, Nic is a scum PR which is why it's making it that much harder, even just a scum goon would not be this difficult as scum would just buss from town cred.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

I did answer your question. I'm extremely skeptical about the circumstances in which this wagon formed.

a wagon that takes almost 2 weeks to get to L-1 is more skeptical than a wagon that takes less than 24 hours to get to L-2?

[hapahauli]

No, but being active and providing almost half of the town's scum-hunting should pretty clearly show you what my motives are. I'd be impressed at myself if I were scum, but alas no.

"Hey guys, look at me being all active and scum hunting. I can't possibly be scum"

ever heard of "hiding in plain sight"? just sayin...

Ever hear of insane conspiracy theories?

Anyway this is a waste of my time.

I don't know if nic is going to flip scum, it's possible he flips town but I seriously doubt it. Usually wagons on a townie do not take this much effort, and they almost certainly don't generate multiple counter wagons.

If i had to guess, Nic is a scum PR which is why it's making it that much harder, even just a scum goon would not be this difficult as scum would just buss from town cred.

Well I'm the one who generated all the counter-wagons. Since I know I'm town, I have a very different perspective on this lynch than you do.

Like assume that I'm town just for the sake of this argument - with that information, take a look at the NC wagon again. Where's the resistance... where's the counterwagon(s)?

[hapahauli]

I did answer your question. I'm extremely skeptical about the circumstances in which this wagon formed.

a wagon that takes almost 2 weeks to get to L-1 is more skeptical than a wagon that takes less than 24 hours to get to L-2?

Your conceptions of "resistance" are too basic.

Sure the wagon took longer, but there was basically no resistance in how that wagon formed. For example, if you take out the last few days of discussion (acfan shenanigans), NC was at L-1 without

any

defenders in the thread.

[hapahauli]

J, do you remember your post here?

ok, I thought i had seen a weird toom/SB connection but after that response and going back and looking in detail, I mis-read.

Vote: Nic

back to L-1

This was many days ago, right before I started things off on AC. There was literally no resistance to the NC wagon whatsoever at this point. Even those voting Scott were seemingly perfectly alright with seeing NC hang. Everyone.

Doesn't that make you skeptical at all? That's lack of resistance if I've ever seen it.

You can argue if you'd like that the ac1983fan wagon was the "resistance", however that would be the worst-timed resistance wagon for a "scumbuddy" in the history of mafia, no? Anywho, the logical explanation to me is that the NC wagon has been too easy.

You're welcome to prove to me otherwise.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Toomai, varsoon, and AC were counter wagons

You voted Toomai first based on the VC, but you weren't pushing that wagon iirc, others were pushing him
You didn't start the varsoon wagon either.

So yeah, there was resistance

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Look on the bright side, if NC does flip town, you get to hold it over everyone's head and proclaim "see I told you so" and berate the rest of us for another day phase

[hapahauli]

Look on the bright side, if NC does flip town, you get to hold it over everyone's head and proclaim "see I told you so" and berate the rest of us for another day phase

Despite the act I put on at times, I'm not in this for my ego. I'm in this to win, and I'd like to start that off with a mafia lynch.

Toomai, varsoon, and AC were counter wagons

You voted Toomai first based on the VC, but you weren't pushing that wagon iirc, others were pushing him
You didn't start the varsoon wagon either.

So yeah, there was resistance

Ummm... I pushed Toomai really, really hard. He was the focus of most of my mid-day suspicion.

Basically all of the resistance was me, unless you'd like to call the handful of people who sheeped me "resistance." And keep in mind that even those who decided to follow me were pretty much all suspicious of NC as well.

[hapahauli]

Like how could you possibly construe that I wasn't pushing the Toomai wagon?

He was my first major case:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4934228

And I basically peppered him with questions throughout the day:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4935069
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4943911
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4945319

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

I was basing that off memory, could not go through your iso on my phone. If I was wrong I'm sorry

But there were people who never joined the Nic wagon, that alone shows resistance to it. The fact that people were willing to join another wagon, despite started or pushed it, still shows resistance.

in my experience resistance of any kind is suspicious, this one had the most resistance. If you want to start yet another counter wagon, have at it.

[hp [leaves]]

What resistance? ac went from one vote to L-1 in

11

posts. Here's a quick summary of the wagon:

I love you Dyslexicon. Thank you for making me look at this guy again.

ac1983fan

is scum. No doubt about it.

I love you too, my dove. *blush*

I totally agree ac19 looks like scum, especially in light of his meta. He has seemed dodgy to me the whole game. His self proclaimed "conservativeness" does not add up to his play, and him stating being wary of me, but do nothing but a totally fail-jump on one of my posts. This is good enough for a vote from me, and then we don't have to worry about NC being lynched (although he might not be town either).

VOTE: ac1983fan

Wow that is some solid data. Very well done on your dig Hapa. I'd like to hear from him as well to see what he has to explain, but with that kind of proof I am willing to sway my vote that way. How much longer do we have till days end?
You have the stage acfan I suggest you give your case before it is to late.

VOTE:ac1983fan

You have me convinced. I felt there was going to be at least one scum in the set of not-common-posters and the evidence seems legit.

Vote: ac1983fan

^^I decided for you

VOTE: acfan1983

A chance to show off my p2 read being accurate? I'm in

-BadCop

Vote: ACfan

I shall walk with you to the death, Hapahauli.

Also, eh, ACfan is a good wagon, regardless of flip. Hope for scum, stay for winning.

post_id=4957189 time=1368651805 user_id=10128]Oh well, I trust you on this one Hapa.

Claim, ac. Claim till you die.

post_id=4957231 time=1368652830 user_id=10128]Actually wait. Doesn't it bother anyone that this wagon went from one vote to L-1 in a single page? Toomai's reasoning is already terrible; but daemon and dys came back from their inactivity just to hop on this bandwagon. I'm willing to bet serious $$ that at least two of them is scum.

VOTE: Toomai

[hp [leaves]]

It's also worth noting that the posts between weren't disapproving the lynch at all.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

The fact ther you if all people posted that post made me laugh.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Of all people*