Mini 1451: A Memory of Light (Game Over)

[Selkies]

1) No, I'm voting for Milk because a push on a claimed VT is pretty terrible, actually.

Wait why

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

[Nero Cain]

I'll always be wary of Matt. Him lying/gambiting/reaction fishing is null but I'd strongly consider his lynch in a few days if we seem to not be hitting on scum. My vote is on Selk and yea it was RVS.

I wouldn't consider a Selk lynch at all.

I haven't found anything to yell at yet hence why I'm sitting on my RVS.

I interpreted that as a town read, as only people I read as town are people I "wouldn't consider a lynch at all."

No. I had no reason to suspect Selk yet. They weren't a "town" read but they weren't a scum read and I try to lynch my scum reads and not my null reads.

No, that's not how that post works. When you say you wouldn't consider somebody's lynch at all,

you imply that you wouldn't consider them being scum

(assuming you want to lynch scum).

Forced misrepresentation of own post to make your OMGUS on us seem more natural. Pretty sure scum intentions.

Really? Thank you for telling me what my post means now fucking die scum.

[Selkies]

Hahahahahahahaha

[Nero Cain]

Orc doesn't deny they are a scum slot.

[Nero Cain]

1) No, I'm voting for Milk because a push on a claimed VT is pretty terrible, actually.

Wait why

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

Also this. He has a meta of fakeclaiming not that of necessarily claiming vt.

[Selkies]

Orc doesn't deny they are a scum slot.

Neither did you. Town players usually don't give a shit about "die scum".


- f

[Belisarius]

1) No, I'm voting for Milk because a push on a claimed VT is pretty terrible, actually.

Wait why

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

????

It's MattP who has the meta for claiming VT, not Milkshake.

[milkshake]

I think 3/4 of these people are scum: Ghostlin, Selkies, GoodCop_BadCop, MattP.

But yeah, well, that just like, uh, my opinion, man.

[Amrun]

This post pinged my scumdar hard. Demon is right on the money that Selkies is saying a lot without having any firm opinions, and this post (while it gets points for being unapologetic about it) only makes matters worse.

Matt is null, but I'm voting him while criticizing others for not voting scum reads, "but I think we can figure him out."

Tell me, HOW is making a vote and then declaring that you only read him as null going to help you "figure him out?" You haven't engaged Matt in any way. You are NOT trying to figure him out.

And early image consciousness.

Yup, definitely liking Selkie for scum at this point.

What firm opinions do you want me to have on like page 3

That's why I throw my vote around and see what sticks. To establish those firm opinions.

In retrospect, my answer to that question probably wasn't optimal wrt scumhunting or determining Matt's alliance. But I was asked it straight up by a person who was scumreading me, so I thought it best to be honest in that situation.

Anyways, you've shown it to be bad town play, but not scummy. Where's the scum intention?

You can have an unfirm opinion on page 3, but you were trying to weasel out of saying anything one way or another until you were asked directly. The scum motivation is not committing to a stance early on so you can take whatever stance is most advantageous later on. The most dangerous thing scum can do is take an early arbitrary stance.

1) No, I'm voting for Milk because a push on a claimed VT is pretty terrible, actually.

Wait why

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

Agree with this. It's NOT terrible ... at all.

[Selkies]

This post pinged my scumdar hard. Demon is right on the money that Selkies is saying a lot without having any firm opinions, and this post (while it gets points for being unapologetic about it) only makes matters worse.

Matt is null, but I'm voting him while criticizing others for not voting scum reads, "but I think we can figure him out."

Tell me, HOW is making a vote and then declaring that you only read him as null going to help you "figure him out?" You haven't engaged Matt in any way. You are NOT trying to figure him out.

And early image consciousness.

Yup, definitely liking Selkie for scum at this point.

What firm opinions do you want me to have on like page 3

That's why I throw my vote around and see what sticks. To establish those firm opinions.

In retrospect, my answer to that question probably wasn't optimal wrt scumhunting or determining Matt's alliance. But I was asked it straight up by a person who was scumreading me, so I thought it best to be honest in that situation.

Anyways, you've shown it to be bad town play, but not scummy. Where's the scum intention?

You can have an unfirm opinion on page 3, but you were trying to weasel out of saying anything one way or another until you were asked directly. The scum motivation is not committing to a stance early on so you can take whatever stance is most advantageous later on. The most dangerous thing scum can do is take an early arbitrary stance.

1) No, I'm voting for Milk because a push on a claimed VT is pretty terrible, actually.

Wait why

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

Agree with this. It's NOT terrible ... at all.

We're having more of a mismatch in terms of online time this game due to school and stuff than in our previous game. There's a 15 hour time zone difference involved. This delays our discussions about the game and players' posts.

Right now, our strongest scum reads are Nero Cain and Beli.

- fferyllt

[Nero Cain]

1) No, I'm voting for Milk because a push on a claimed VT is pretty terrible, actually.

Wait why

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

????

It's MattP who has the meta for claiming VT, not Milkshake.

so not what Ghost said

[Nero Cain]

1) No, I'm voting for Milk because a push on a claimed VT is pretty terrible, actually.

Wait why

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

????

It's MattP who has the meta for claiming VT, not Milkshake.

so not what Ghost said

[Demon]

Haven't read these back and forths at all and probably won't ever.

Belisarius might be scum.

@Iecerint

Why did you ignore my vote on you?

[sword_of_omens]

ugh...sorry guys...nursing a serious hangover today...
i apologize to Ceph and the other players for lurking like a mother this past week...
should be back into the groove on Monday with all of my B-day excursion-whoring behind me...

[orcinus_theoriginal]

1) No, I'm voting for Milk because a push on a claimed VT is pretty terrible, actually.

Wait why

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

????

It's MattP who has the meta for claiming VT, not Milkshake.

...yeah, scum.

[Cephrir]

Please immediately quote your post when you hydra-slip.

[ThAdmiral]

I'll chime in and agree that selk does look bad. Restrospectively her behaviour around the milkshake wagon makes little sense:
- selk jumps on in 97 providing little reasoning (the only clue we get is "milkshake's entrance was a little unsettling" from a previous post)
- questions nero on who is scum if milkshake flips town (106). This is odd because, being on the milkshake wagon, they should think that milkshake is indeed scum. Furthermore it indicates that they are more interested in engaging with nero than milkshake. In fact they don't address milkshake at all the entire time they are voting for them, which also strikes me as odd.
- They state in 115, regarding nero: "we don't view you to be our #1 suspect", and regarding milkshake: "I personally think milkshake's wagon is probably town-driven". Furthermore in 125: "milkshake's page 4 posts ping pretty hard". So it seems they are pretty happy with the milkshake wagon.
- suddenly in 133: "So fery and I are mostly satisfied with the last two posts. Milkshake can be town for now", and they change their vote to nero.

They had been toying with voting nero, so the switch to him isn't that odd, but their behaviour towards milkshake certainly was - essentially whilst they never stated clearly why they thought milk was scum they continued to vote them, but never actually interacted with milkshake. They could be milkshake's partners, but that almost seems too obvious to be true.

I am tempted to vote tbh.

[Selkies]

1) No, I'm voting for Milk because a push on a claimed VT is pretty terrible, actually.

Wait why

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

????

It's MattP who has the meta for claiming VT, not Milkshake.

...yeah, scum.

^^ - o

[Ghostlin]

1) No, I'm voting for Milk because

a push on a claimed VT

is pretty terrible, actually.

Wait why

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

????

It's MattP who has the meta for claiming VT, not Milkshake.

You didn't read the post at all, did you?

A push on a claimed VT=Matt P, who claimed VT. But thanks for playing.

[Ghostlin]

Summarize your opinion of Selkies for me, Ghostlin.

Feeling slightly queasy about that slot. Like it's..not something I can name, actually. They hadn't been town or scum for me until that last post clanged. There's no point in such...cordiality from a hydra, particularly since you occupied a slot that was low activity and somewhat suspicious.

[Ghostlin]

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

You don't know if such a person is telling the truth to get reactions, lying to get reactions or to

hide

something. The push is artificial because VT doesn't mean anything page 1; and if Matt's telling the truth...

Look. Beyond the WIFOM, let's break it down here.

If Matt is serious, what does it actually hurt?

It's not like he's power lurking (well, at that point, he wasn't), he wasn't playing the game in a manner that was actively trolling anyone (I had thought this originally, but his milkshake vote seems to indicate it was reaction fishing), and the motive of claiming VT at this point is hardly anti-town unless Matt's actively scum. Which is one of three possibilities.

The push is lazy scumhunting. It proposes a PL that does roughly NOTHING for us even from a game standpoint.

[Ghostlin]

IMO Cain is doing exactly what he accuses me of doing. He's sucking up to you.

I accused you of sucking up to Amrun? no. I think I rather kill this today instead of Milkshake. Make it so guys.

Apologies. I got you confused with Ghostlin.

- f

Quote a single post where this is true. I'll wait.

[Selkies]

Ghostlin, if you mean that they're sucking up to me and I suspect them, well, yes, that's true, but I haven't decided if it's genuine or not. It's something scum might do to town that enters the game strong and it's also something town might do with a town read, so...

That was it. The kind of sucking up+the not a defense

.

@Ghostlin I attributed this post of yours to Nero Cain. The behaviors I thought were sucking up (and still do) were his solicitous conversations going over assorted potential scum partners of mine.

I am not scum. Right now, I think that Nero Cain and Beli are scum. Orcinus agrees.

- fferyllt

[Selkies]

But hey, a genuine thanks for talking *to* me instead of *about* me, Ghostlin.

- fferyllt

[Ghostlin]

Mmm. Well, I'm going to be utterly horrible and talk to and about someone else.

Miss Destroyer: reads please.

I feel for a hydra, they're doing the absolute minimum this game.