Newbie 1351: Hyrule's Under Attack.. Interesting..-GAME OVER

[fferyllt]

it was already the longest newbie game about 15 pages ago IIRC.

[goodmorning]

It was the largest Newbie on page 66/post 1637, according to the Records page.

At any rate, slightly confused to see the page count go up two more pages with mostly nothing earth-shattering. I think hearing from Z is a must, I'll be sad if I wake up and see nothing from him.

Just a heads-up, I will be in Washington DC on a pleasant family vacation from Saturday to Monday, and will probably have no access at all on those days.I will have limited access tomorrow due to all the packing and stuff for said vacation.

Noted.

[goodmorning]

We also have the largest Day in a Newbie; D1 was around 1370 posts. D2 comes in just under the records table at 830-ish. In case we were wondering.

[goodmorning]

EBWOTP: We weren't.

[Z7-852]

Have been super busy this week. Will re-read last day and this day once I get to my home PC.

[VisceraEyes]

Welp

[Ineffective]

..........................................................................................

[Mac]

I'll get to this game soon, guys. Would still like to hear from Z too. I hope this isn't a stalling tactic.

[Z7-852]

Sorry about my passivity. I had two major papers to return before summer break and this have taken all my free time. I hate to be the guy to drag game on but as you know even in best scenario I don't write more than 2 posts a day.

No-Kill during the night was interesting. There are at least 4 reasons I can think for this. 1. Doctor chose correctly, 2. Jailer jailed the target, 3. Jailer jailed a scum or 4. Scum decided to go for no-kill. Fourth option really don't look possible for me so I have to focus on three first. There is no way that scum would withhold their shot when there are two power roles in the open and they are last man standing. Inneffectives logic (#2236) on this seems little far fetched.

VisceraEyes

chose

fferyllt

(#2218). The whole game I have leaning toward fferyllt being a town. And as a active town she would make a prime target for scums. Here is unfortunate possibility for VisceraEyes to be a scum and his claim to false. I was puzzling with this during last dusk. Also his rationalization (#2220) for the protection wasn't really good. I have been saying that VisceraEyes have been budding fferyllt this whole game and this still sound little like that.

Second possibility is interesting. I stated that GuyInFreeze and Mac are unlike partners so if Mac is town who would like to hurt them. Mac have been under heavy suspicion by almost all the players so killing him during night would mean that one of the prime blame goats would be out. For this reason this seems unlikely possibility for me.

Mac

denied (#2216) the option 3. Any scum would do this so it really doesn't tell me anything. But Mac as I pointed out during last day Mac and GuyInFreeze are extremely unlikely partners just by looking at their voting patterns. Therefor I can't see this as a high possibility. There have been good individual cases against Mac but once GuyInFreeze was reveled as as scum killed by Mac. It just is too far fetch for me to see these to as partners considering they have been on each others throats lately.

I was really concerned about revealed Doctor last day and I still don't understand why VisceraEyes would claim something like that. Once both claimed power roles survived the night this makes me even more concerned. goodmorning pointed out (#2227) that power roles could just be to intimating to kill. At this point when other scum is revealed and "both power roles claimed" I just can't swallow possibility. Inneffective also pointed out (#2263) that VisceraEyes avoided lynching GuyInFreeze when there was a decent case against them. VisceraEyes have also never voted against GuyInFreeze in whole game. Interesting considering that he have voted against everyone else but fferyllt and GuyInFreeze.

Inneffectives math (#2245) of today lynch is correct. This makes me want to lean little toward to no-lynch. But because I can't completely trust the claims that have been made the logic behind the math falls apart. For this reason we really should lynch someone.

VOTE: VisceraEyes just because he gave best laugh (#2331) of the day.

Scumometer (tm)
fferyllt < Ineffective < GuyInFreezer < Mac < goodmorning < VisceraEyes

[VisceraEyes]

Well some more. That did nothing for me. Still wanna lynch into Mac/Inef though now I'm fighting the urge to just be done with Z.

[fferyllt]

I learned something yesterday from the postgame talk in one of my finished game. I've checked with Tracey to be sure that it is ok to mention/link to something from a finished game's QT and she said it is ok.

Since everyone else so far has been analyzing/thinking about the game without this info, I wanted to see Z7's post before throwing this into the mix.

Goodmorning was scum in the Donner Party game that just completed: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=27049

On the Mafia QT, she said this:

I may start looking for shit in my early posts that I can claim crumbing.

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/d6mG3vAAvvUc

When she claimed JK, she pointed up crumbs she left in this game. There was some skepticism but we eventually accepted they could be real crumbs.

I want this on the table going forward. Whatever we decide to do today, don't lose sight of this later in the game.

[fferyllt]

*crickets*

[Z7-852]

Well the whole saying "keep" felt little odd to me. Especially since you pointed out that she really haven't been saying that so much. Still her claim was timed better than VisceraEyes claim and on that bases alone I found it more credible.

[fferyllt]

@Z7 - The claim arguably narrowed things down in a helpful way, and the arguments about claims vs fake claims improved my read on Mac. I came out of it feeling a little more like he might be town. With Ineff's push for us to look at pairings, GiF was much more in the frame than he had been. We were looking hard at Mac and GiF near the end. GiF could easily have coasted at least another day if we hadn't torn through ISOs looking for interactions with other players.

Your argument that GiF being scum makes Mac less likely to be scum is a little weak. GiF's vote on Mac was at the right time for a bus.

One thing that I couldn't talk about at the time of Mac's first day 2 L-1 bandwagon was the contrast between his "wait let me post my reads" post in this game and his L-1 post in another game that was ongoing at the time.

This game:

Don't hammer yet, I haven't read anything other than the last posts. It's not going to be beneficial to hammer me without letting me post my thoughts. It's also the weekend, i haven't been able to post that much over the board lately.

VOTE: GiF

Because that L-1 vote was proper opportunistic. I guess you only see it if you know I'm town but yeah, thinking he's scum now.

Again, would prefer time to post my thoughts because tomorrow will be lylo so hang fire until tuesday at least.

The Poetic Justice Game

aaaannnddd

Mac got all quiet again, lovely :T

lol sorry for having a life I guess?

VOTE: Majiffy

Cos that was a fucking shit vote. Seriously bad.

Going out now. Disappearing, if you will.

Poetic Justice game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27515

In Poetic Justice, Mac was scum. Majiffy was his scum partner.

So, if Mac is scum in this game, I would not be at all surprised that he'd throw a vote on his partner at L-1.

On the other hand, the tone of these two posts are quite different. The Poetic Justice post has much more of a scum vibe to it IMO.

[Ineffective]

I disagree with every post. must be on the right side of the bed.

[fferyllt]

Specfics?

[Ineffective]

Ya let me wake up for a sec. As for your meta on mac... I dont agree that his vote on his parter was scummier at L-1 in the other game... Perhaps it makes this threads omgus vote look townier by merit of different tone... But if i were to compare the two posts and decide which was scummier with no flips to go off of id say it was this thread... The other thread had a ring of "idgaf" which always looks town to me

[Ineffective]

Z7 says

" VisceraEyes chose fferyllt (#2218). The whole game I have leaning toward fferyllt being a town. And as a active town she would make a prime target for scums. Here is unfortunate possibility for VisceraEyes to be a scum and his claim to false. I was puzzling with this during last dusk. Also his rationalization (#2220) for the protection wasn't really good. I have been saying that VisceraEyes have been budding fferyllt this whole game and this still sound little like that."

Yet also says he doesnt buy that mafia no-killed... Which is a contradiction.

[fferyllt]

Ya let me wake up for a sec. As for your meta on mac... I dont agree that his vote on his parter was scummier at L-1 in the other game... Perhaps it makes this threads omgus vote look townier by merit of different tone... But if i were to compare the two posts and decide which was scummier with no flips to go off of id say it was this thread... The other thread had a ring of "idgaf" which always looks town to me

It wasn't the vote. It was the whole tone of the post, which was kinda "I got better shit to do".

He was scum in the other game.

[fferyllt]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that wanting more interactions and wanting to post a reads list before being hammered would be more dangerous to a scum player - more chance to give something away or for the other scum to give something away. Whereas town should want the time and want to provide reads because all if that is about to become the words of a confirmed town player.

[Ineffective]

Well the whole saying "keep" felt little odd to me. Especially since you pointed out that she really haven't been saying that so much. Still her claim was timed better than VisceraEyes claim and on that bases alone I found it more credible.

A voluntary claim made to get some good POE confirmation going is much less scummy than a claim made under durress that i predicted would be done by scum if thier partner hadnt yet done the same....especially one with bad/falsified crumbing


But we have already been over this

Pedit: i was referring directly to the tone of the two posts and what i would consider of them if there had been no flips. I am well aware

Pedit 2: perhaps the difference in the posts is merely that he was more certain of his fate in the other game and didnt want to give off extra info--- and that he was rtrying to avert his lynch here and needed to appear towny.... That post never struck me as town once because of the sentance structures and vocabulary and fseemingly forcced tone... The only thing that made me think it was towny was that he was basically letting us know that he wasnt claiming pr

[fferyllt]

Ok. I see your point about the awkward construction.

One of the reasons I wanted to bring that post up today, though, was because of Z7's argument that Mac wouldn't vote GiF or vice versa if they are both scum. At least I think he's arguing that.

[Ineffective]

Z7. Post was entirely nonsensical in all regards- full of contradictons an very vauge in the points that he did not contradict himself in. I wouldnt read too much into unless you are willing to consider z7 as scum

[Ineffective]

The contradiction i havnt yet noted is that he said he agreed with my nl but that he doesnt because he doesnt think both prs are real... The only reason my math isnt optimal would be if both pr claims are real

[Ineffective]

The whole argument that scum probably didnt nokill but that VE is probably scum is the worst and most blatent contradiction. If VE is scum, mafia ndokilled almost certainly