Mini 1451: A Memory of Light (Game Over)

[Cephrir]

Vote Count 1.7

milkshake 4

(MattP, Ghostlin, sword_of_omens, ThAdmiral)

Ghostlin 2

(milkshake, Amrun)

sword_of_omens 1

(GoodCop_BadCop)

Belisarius 1

(Iecerint)

Nero Cain 1

(Selkies)

Selkies 1

(Nero Cain)

Iecerint 1

(Demon)

Not Voting 2

(Miss Destroyer, Belisarius)

GoodCop_BadCop has been prodded.

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is Monday, June 3rd, at 1 PM EST. This is in (expired on 2013-06-03 13:00:00).

[milkshake]

What little Miss Destroyer has said I agree with, but they're lurking a little and haven't voted, so I'm not happy about that. But neither of those two things are alignment indicative, really.

[Amrun]

I haven't caught up since my last post, but...

V/LA until Sunday or Monday (probably Monday)

[Belisarius]

1) No, I'm voting for Milk because a push on a claimed VT is pretty terrible, actually.

Wait why

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

????

It's MattP who has the meta for claiming VT, not Milkshake.

so not what Ghost said

Good thing I was quoting Selkies, not Ghost, then.

[GoodCop_BadCop]

Prod Dodge.

Probably should have went V/LA, but figured my other head could take over. Pretty sad with two heads, I know. Still need to catch up, substantial post will be up today for sure.

[Nero Cain]

Milshake-if you thought Matt was scummy for fake claiming, why did you not vote him?

[milkshake]

Why did I do that? Two reasons. First, because the bulk of the rationale for MattP's lynch came from an opinion held by Nero, not necessarily myself. That opinion was: MattP is equally likely to claim VT as scum as town. My extension of that opinion was: A town power role would never claim VT (see: don't lie as town), so we are left with MattP being VT or scum. Second, because it was very early in the day. Too early to seriously suggest an immediate lynchwagon on MattP. But not too early to highlight the topic for strategic discussion.

Later, some people (Ghostlin, possibly others) pointed out that MattP may be the type of player to claim VT as a town power role. (MattP might be the type of player to lie as town.) If this is true, my extension of Nero Cain's opinion is invalid, and MattP is not a good lynch.

[Nero Cain]

I don't think I buy that.

I should have wanted a Matt P lynch 'cause I mentioned that he fake claims as both alignments?

Technically, you should have wanted a MattP lynch because he claims early as town and fakeclaims early as scum. This was under the assumption of "Never lie as town" being universally accepted strategy here. Which apparently it might not be?

That post to me sounds very much like you wanted to vote Matt. I don't get why you'd tell me that I should think that when you don't.

[milkshake]

I do want to vote Matt. You'll notice that Matt is on my 3/4 scum list.

I have a question for Matt, too, while we're on the topic:

MattP, do you believe in "never lie as town?"

[Iecerint]

I like Amrun's posts coming into the game; it's pretty rare that someone can pick up on things that are pretty different from what I've noticed without my finding it weird and awkward. I can see part of where someone could find Ghostlin scummy (cf., earlier posts), but I'm leaning town there. Selkies wasn't really on my radar much one way or the other. Looking over it in iso, stuff like 231 is pretty town, though. I'm not crazy about either of these options.

I'm liking either milkshake or SoO at this point for scum at this point.

Vote: SoO

[Iecerint]

@Iecerint

Why did you ignore my vote on you?

This is the sum total of everything you have written about me in this thread:

Unvote, Vote: Iecerint

I don't see anything to respond to.

[Demon]

I voted you for seemingly no reason; why didn't you call me out for it? If you're town then why wouldn't you at least go "wtf why are you voting me" rather than flat out doing nothing about it?

[Iecerint]

Different people use their vote different ways. In your case, you spent the first part of the game rapidly voting different players. I figured there was a method to whatever you were doing.

I don't think it's productive to call attention to stuff that I don't think is alignment indicative, unless I think it's already serving as an inappropriate distraction.

[Iecerint]

BTW, I would appreciate it if you'd use an avatar. It will help me to keep track of your posts.

[ThAdmiral]

BTW, I would appreciate it if you'd use an avatar. It will help me to keep track of your posts.

I'll second this, and also request it to be some kind of sweet demon.

Cheers

[Miss Destroyer]

A vote hasn't been placed because I'm still waiting on HD to answer back to me on where he thinks we should have the vote. HD hasn't talked to me, period :T

I already gave my personal pics for a vote, which is what should transfer to as a scum read...

I am also personally town reading THad, and I get a vauge feel that Nero/Selkies is TvT. I don't really know what to think of Matt at this stage

[Nero Cain]

HD not being around seems slightly iffy. He hasn't been super duper active but he's been around.

Still for a Mil/Selk lynch. Maybe SOO.

[Selkies]

You can have an unfirm opinion on page 3, but you were trying to weasel out of saying anything one way or another until you were asked directly. The scum motivation is not committing to a stance early on so you can take whatever stance is most advantageous later on. The most dangerous thing scum can do is take an early arbitrary stance.

Well, no.

I have unfirm opinions on page 3. There's no point in me voicing them because they're next to useless. I wasn't trying to weasel out of it--see here, you contradict yourself. I didn't want to say what my stance on Matt was, but once again, Demon was getting very irritated with us and we were townreading him and so in that situation, I wanted to be honest.

I use all my votes in RVS as reaction tests. I try to stir stuff up so I have something to work with (and bring us out of RVS). Demon's vote helped me in getting a read on him. However, when I voted Matt, Matt just...left. So that was not my intention, and gave me nothing wrt information about his alliance.

I didn't want to say blatantly that Matt was a scumread, especially since this hydra is coming off a game where we got a lot of flak for fakeclaiming PGO as innocent child, and Matt wasn't really a scumread. And like you said, if we said that voting Matt was a reaction test, it would negate the point of the reaction test. So what the fuck was I supposed to do? I went with trying to quell Demon a little by giving him the truth. So obviously, that wasn't pro-town play, but it was pro-me, and I'm town, so I'm still moderately content about how that went down.

Anything more?

[MattP]

Prod dodge until tomorrow when I get home

[Ghostlin]

I didn't want to say blatantly that Matt was a scumread, especially since this hydra is coming off a game where we got a lot of flak for fakeclaiming PGO as innocent child, and Matt wasn't really a scumread

I'm not sure this is comparing apples to apples. Also, this is stupid considering how Innocent Child works.

[Ghostlin]

I do want to vote Matt. You'll notice that Matt is on my 3/4 scum list.

I have a question for Matt, too, while we're on the topic:

MattP, do you believe in "never lie as town?"

...This question bothers me. It seems like you'll continue to use this for whatever motivation you got against Matt regardless of how this is answered.

[Selkies]

I didn't want to say blatantly that Matt was a scumread, especially since this hydra is coming off a game where we got a lot of flak for fakeclaiming PGO as innocent child, and Matt wasn't really a scumread

I'm not sure this is comparing apples to apples. Also, this is stupid considering how Innocent Child works.

It was a confirmable IC, as in, it wasn't announced at daystart and could mod-confirm us whenever we wanted at any point in the game.

And not really. I'm comparing them because that experience made me less prone to lying about stuff, even when I think it benefits town.

[Belisarius]

...This question bothers me. It seems like you'll continue to use this for whatever motivation you got against Matt regardless of how this is answered.

You're calling

that

a loaded question?

In what way is it loaded? Specific examples please.

[Ghostlin]

...This question bothers me. It seems like you'll continue to use this for whatever motivation you got against Matt regardless of how this is answered.

You're calling

that

a loaded question?

In what way is it loaded? Specific examples please.

You don't see it in context?

Matt can only answer the question two ways: if he says yes, then milkshake can then use this to try to lynch him under the fact he's a liability to town because he might be lying to us. If he says no, then suspicion can safely ride with him all game because he's willing to lie to Town.

[GoodCop_BadCop]

Still like my SoO vote, waiting on more substance.

This Milkshake wagon is going a bit fast and its making me worry...

The odds of one scum being on that wagon are good. Probably Milk's buddies if she's scum are treating her like a toxic asset hoping for a later deflection off the wagon, and if she does unlikely flip town...well, then at least one or two scum are making that push. SOO's vote seems to be a follow the leader vote--I've got my eyes on him and Nic next for scum.

If milk is town, then Ghostlin is a good bet for scum. Notice the casual cognitive dissonance in this post. Milk is "unlikely" to flip town, but SOO's "follow the leader" vote is suspect? Treating her as town while calling her scum.

This is a complete mis-representation of the quoted post. I don't see any cognitive dissonance. He didn't say anywhere that Milk is unlikely to flip town, he said in the unlikely event that Milk were to flip town, which actually means the opposite of what you are trying to present here Amrun. Care to comment with that in mind?

Also the fact that Ghostlin explained himself and you

still

refused to listen, but instead tried to make Ghost look like the fool, makes me think you mis-repped that post on purpose.

Aside from the poor posts already hit on regarding Milkshake, what I can't shake are her odd logical reasonings. Below are two.

Again I feel like

the decision to make this post came before the post itself.

In other words, Ghostlin decided he should present some analysis, but only for the sake of presenting analysis, not for the sake of finding scum. If you look at the post, it doesn't help find scum.

How exactly do you determine that a post was decided to be made before the post itself?

We know you aren't stupid enough to say something about knowing I'm town. Who is that stupid? But the fact that YOU think WE think you are that stupid might indicate that there was actually a possibility of you being that stupid, because the knowledge is actually there in your mind. You're just smart enough to ignore it.

What is this round about theory about Ghostlin being stupid? This post makes no sense to me, not to mention you called him stupid and smart all in one paragraph...

In an attempt to figure out what was going on, I went here to a game of Milk's as town and couldn't find any of these odd posts. Milk, could you link me to one of your recent scum games?

@Demon

What do you think about SOO's lack of commenting on my vote on him?